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News In March
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 16-03-2012 13:25
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Mmmm, another 100 ways for Spanish cyclists to go undetected 
This is not a nice comment, there are lot of riders who are way overperforming this season and not a single one of them is spanish 
Totally agree, Valverde for one |
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 16-03-2012 13:32
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If Valverde is now overperforming he was Superman+Merckx+Hinault before his ban... So i don't think he's overperforming.
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| p3druh |
Posted on 16-03-2012 13:34
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sutty68 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Mmmm, another 100 ways for Spanish cyclists to go undetected
This is not a nice comment, there are lot of riders who are way overperforming this season and not a single one of them is spanish
Totally agree, Valverde for one
Ironic that such a post came from someone from Great Britain. Tiernan-Locke, Wiggins (who beat Valverde) and Sky's season so far ring any bells to you?
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 16-03-2012 16:06
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sam1196 wrote:
If Valverde is now overperforming he was Superman+Merckx+Hinault before his ban... So i don't think he's overperforming.
Shouldn't be that be if he was underperforming? Or am I just mistaken?
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 16-03-2012 16:25
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p3druh wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Mmmm, another 100 ways for Spanish cyclists to go undetected
This is not a nice comment, there are lot of riders who are way overperforming this season and not a single one of them is spanish
Totally agree, Valverde for one
Ironic that such a post came from someone from Great Britain. Tiernan-Locke, Wiggins (who beat Valverde) and Sky's season so far ring any bells to you?
Lol I love how you think Wiggins doped because he managed to beat Valverde. That is funny! As for Tiernan-Locke he could be doing what Westra is doing and Team Sky have one hell of a squad this season so why shouldn't they be doing well? Heck even OPQS have had a better season, I don't hear you saying anything about them! |
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 16-03-2012 16:26
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lluuiiggii wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
If Valverde is now overperforming he was Superman+Merckx+Hinault before his ban... So i don't think he's overperforming.
Shouldn't be that be if he was underperforming? Or am I just mistaken?
You make me doubt my own saying.  No I mean if some think that Valverde is overperforming 2012 season so far. He certainly was in his super years, wich he wasn't. THat's just his class. If toure a hater you just can't denie that he's a super cyclist.
CLURPR wrote:
p3druh wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Mmmm, another 100 ways for Spanish cyclists to go undetected
This is not a nice comment, there are lot of riders who are way overperforming this season and not a single one of them is spanish
Totally agree, Valverde for one
Ironic that such a post came from someone from Great Britain. Tiernan-Locke, Wiggins (who beat Valverde) and Sky's season so far ring any bells to you?
Lol I love how you think Wiggins doped because he managed to beat Valverde. That is funny! As for Tiernan-Locke he could be doing what Westra is doing and Team Sky have one hell of a squad this season so why shouldn't they be doing well? Heck even OPQS have had a better season, I don't hear you saying anything about them!
For me suspecting someone to dope is about his riding style. If a rider e.g Westra, Wiggins (don't blow my head of now) suddenly starts to climb very very well than that makes me doubt about if he is "clean" or not.
We don't have any reason to doubt about OPQS, Boonen had always a good sprint and Cobbles skill in the past and he's just showing that he's not to old yet. Idem for Chavannel, he has always been a great cyclist and just continues to do that. His capacities on mountains arent improved (Mende, Col d'Eze TT) strangely this season. Chichi, had always had the speed. Fenn, think about his time wit the U23... So what's the point with suspecting dope in OPQS?
I'm not saying you suspect OPQS, i'm just saying that it doesn't make sense to suspect them. Only the past wasn't quite clean (Mapei). Is there any rider who's now in OPQS that had been caught earlier? I don't think so.
Edited by sam1196 on 16-03-2012 16:37
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 16-03-2012 16:41
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Domestique
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sam1196 wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
If Valverde is now overperforming he was Superman+Merckx+Hinault before his ban... So i don't think he's overperforming.
Shouldn't be that be if he was underperforming? Or am I just mistaken?
You make me doubt my own saying. No I mean if some think that Valverde is overperforming 2012 season so far. He certainly was in his super years, wich he wasn't. THat's just his class. If toure a hater you just can't denie that he's a super cyclist.
CLURPR wrote:
p3druh wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Mmmm, another 100 ways for Spanish cyclists to go undetected
This is not a nice comment, there are lot of riders who are way overperforming this season and not a single one of them is spanish
Totally agree, Valverde for one
Ironic that such a post came from someone from Great Britain. Tiernan-Locke, Wiggins (who beat Valverde) and Sky's season so far ring any bells to you?
Lol I love how you think Wiggins doped because he managed to beat Valverde. That is funny! As for Tiernan-Locke he could be doing what Westra is doing and Team Sky have one hell of a squad this season so why shouldn't they be doing well? Heck even OPQS have had a better season, I don't hear you saying anything about them!
For me suspecting someone to dope is about his riding style. If a rider e.g Westra, Wiggins (don't blow my head of now) suddenly starts to climb very very well than that makes me doubt about if he is "clean" or not.
We don't have any reason to doubt about OPQS, Boonen had always a good sprint and Cobbles skill in the past and he's just showing that he's not to old yet. Idem for Chavannel, he has always been a great cyclist and just continues to do that. His capacities on mountains arent improved (Mende, Col d'Eze TT) strangely this season. Chichi, had always had the speed. Fenn, think about his time wit the U23... So what's the point with suspecting dope in OPQS?
I'm not saying you suspect OPQS, i'm just saying that it doesn't make sense to suspect them. Only the past wasn't quite clean (Mapei). Is there any rider who's now in OPQS that had been caught earlier? I don't think so.
Wiggins has been climbing well for years though? And Sky is an anti-doping team I don't think Brailsford would allow any to dope, it just angers me when people make false doping accusations simply because they beat another rider! |
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| p3druh |
Posted on 16-03-2012 16:44
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Posts: 2667
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CLURPR wrote:
p3druh wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Mmmm, another 100 ways for Spanish cyclists to go undetected
This is not a nice comment, there are lot of riders who are way overperforming this season and not a single one of them is spanish
Totally agree, Valverde for one
Ironic that such a post came from someone from Great Britain. Tiernan-Locke, Wiggins (who beat Valverde) and Sky's season so far ring any bells to you?
Lol I love how you think Wiggins doped because he managed to beat Valverde. That is funny! As for Tiernan-Locke he could be doing what Westra is doing and Team Sky have one hell of a squad this season so why shouldn't they be doing well? Heck even OPQS have had a better season, I don't hear you saying anything about them!
Take a better read at what I wrote. I'm not saying rider X or rider Y is doped. I'm criticising and pointing out the bias of someone who says every spanish rider is doped using the "Valverde is having a super season this year" argument while overlooking other facts.
Not to mention the ignorance of claiming every spanish rider is doped. But I'm not even going to address that.
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 16-03-2012 16:47
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
Joined: 19-02-2008
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CLURPR wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
If Valverde is now overperforming he was Superman+Merckx+Hinault before his ban... So i don't think he's overperforming.
Shouldn't be that be if he was underperforming? Or am I just mistaken?
You make me doubt my own saying. No I mean if some think that Valverde is overperforming 2012 season so far. He certainly was in his super years, wich he wasn't. THat's just his class. If toure a hater you just can't denie that he's a super cyclist.
CLURPR wrote:
p3druh wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Mmmm, another 100 ways for Spanish cyclists to go undetected
This is not a nice comment, there are lot of riders who are way overperforming this season and not a single one of them is spanish
Totally agree, Valverde for one
Ironic that such a post came from someone from Great Britain. Tiernan-Locke, Wiggins (who beat Valverde) and Sky's season so far ring any bells to you?
Lol I love how you think Wiggins doped because he managed to beat Valverde. That is funny! As for Tiernan-Locke he could be doing what Westra is doing and Team Sky have one hell of a squad this season so why shouldn't they be doing well? Heck even OPQS have had a better season, I don't hear you saying anything about them!
For me suspecting someone to dope is about his riding style. If a rider e.g Westra, Wiggins (don't blow my head of now) suddenly starts to climb very very well than that makes me doubt about if he is "clean" or not.
We don't have any reason to doubt about OPQS, Boonen had always a good sprint and Cobbles skill in the past and he's just showing that he's not to old yet. Idem for Chavannel, he has always been a great cyclist and just continues to do that. His capacities on mountains arent improved (Mende, Col d'Eze TT) strangely this season. Chichi, had always had the speed. Fenn, think about his time wit the U23... So what's the point with suspecting dope in OPQS?
I'm not saying you suspect OPQS, i'm just saying that it doesn't make sense to suspect them. Only the past wasn't quite clean (Mapei). Is there any rider who's now in OPQS that had been caught earlier? I don't think so.
Wiggins has been climbing well for years though? And Sky is an anti-doping team I don't think Brailsford would allow any to dope, it just angers me when people make false doping accusations simply because they beat another rider!
The original point was that it was Valverde who was overperforming but in fact there are many more British riders who are turning in unusually good performances. And just 'cause Brailsford says it antidoping...
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 16-03-2012 16:51
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Saying isn't doing, as Wacko said... And Wigging just popped up in TDF 2009 he didn't show much before that.
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 16-03-2012 16:52
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Posts: 7681
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sam1196 wrote:
Saying isn't doing, as Wacko said... And Wigging just popped up in TDF 2009 he didn't show much before that.
Which no one has said means he is doping - it just makes him more suspect than, say, all the spanish riders as the original poster claims.
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 16-03-2012 17:00
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
Saying isn't doing, as Wacko said... And Wigging just popped up in TDF 2009 he didn't show much before that.
Which no one has said means he is doping - it just makes him more suspect than, say, all the spanish riders as the original poster claims.
Exactly what i mean.
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 16-03-2012 17:15
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sam1196 wrote:
Saying isn't doing, as Wacko said... And Wigging just popped up in TDF 2009 he didn't show much before that.
That because he was focused on the track, as he did win 3 golds in Beijing. Plus I don't think they would want to jeopardise there chances of going to London 2012 as the British Olympic Association give out lifetime bans for anyone caught doping, as David Millar found out. |
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| Ste117 |
Posted on 16-03-2012 18:18
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3684
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
CLURPR wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
If Valverde is now overperforming he was Superman+Merckx+Hinault before his ban... So i don't think he's overperforming.
Shouldn't be that be if he was underperforming? Or am I just mistaken?
You make me doubt my own saying. No I mean if some think that Valverde is overperforming 2012 season so far. He certainly was in his super years, wich he wasn't. THat's just his class. If toure a hater you just can't denie that he's a super cyclist.
CLURPR wrote:
p3druh wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Mmmm, another 100 ways for Spanish cyclists to go undetected
This is not a nice comment, there are lot of riders who are way overperforming this season and not a single one of them is spanish
Totally agree, Valverde for one
Ironic that such a post came from someone from Great Britain. Tiernan-Locke, Wiggins (who beat Valverde) and Sky's season so far ring any bells to you?
Lol I love how you think Wiggins doped because he managed to beat Valverde. That is funny! As for Tiernan-Locke he could be doing what Westra is doing and Team Sky have one hell of a squad this season so why shouldn't they be doing well? Heck even OPQS have had a better season, I don't hear you saying anything about them!
For me suspecting someone to dope is about his riding style. If a rider e.g Westra, Wiggins (don't blow my head of now) suddenly starts to climb very very well than that makes me doubt about if he is "clean" or not.
We don't have any reason to doubt about OPQS, Boonen had always a good sprint and Cobbles skill in the past and he's just showing that he's not to old yet. Idem for Chavannel, he has always been a great cyclist and just continues to do that. His capacities on mountains arent improved (Mende, Col d'Eze TT) strangely this season. Chichi, had always had the speed. Fenn, think about his time wit the U23... So what's the point with suspecting dope in OPQS?
I'm not saying you suspect OPQS, i'm just saying that it doesn't make sense to suspect them. Only the past wasn't quite clean (Mapei). Is there any rider who's now in OPQS that had been caught earlier? I don't think so.
Wiggins has been climbing well for years though? And Sky is an anti-doping team I don't think Brailsford would allow any to dope, it just angers me when people make false doping accusations simply because they beat another rider!
The original point was that it was Valverde who was overperforming but in fact there are many more British riders who are turning in unusually good performances. And just 'cause Brailsford says it antidoping...
Great Britain are an Anti Doping country, why would the likes of Wiggins risk a lifetime ban from representing GB with his back catalogue of success.
GB have had numerous strategies in place for years now for improving our countries cyclists and now we are seeing the results.
MG Team manager Team Ticos Air Costa Rica
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| miggi133 |
Posted on 16-03-2012 18:19
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CLURPR wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
Saying isn't doing, as Wacko said... And Wigging just popped up in TDF 2009 he didn't show much before that.
That because he was focused on the track, as he did win 3 golds in Beijing. Plus I don't think they would want to jeopardise there chances of going to London 2012 as the British Olympic Association give out lifetime bans for anyone caught doping, as David Millar found out.
Well, you are not banned from Cycling as long as you are not convicted and found Guilty as the Contador case proved...
As many of the others I am not accusing anyone.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 16-03-2012 18:26
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Ste117 wrote:
Great Britain are an Anti Doping country, why would the likes of Wiggins risk a lifetime ban from representing GB with his back catalogue of success.
GB have had numerous strategies in place for years now for improving our countries cyclists and now we are seeing the results.
Ai car e not about Wiggins that much, but Spain is also an antidoping country, the Gardia Civil has done a hell of a job, just as the carabinieri did before in Italy, of the legal authorities in French earlier on.
My point is that having a federation that is claiming to be on the edge of the antidoping fight proves nothing. Time will tell. Doping scandals are the result of actions by civil authorities.
And no, I don't question the extreme professionalism of the English federation either. I reckon it was more than time that cycling moved to the 21st century.
And the Olympics don't mean that much to pro cyclists, say that's worth something between a 1.HC and a monument, to most of them. Even though they (the Brits this year) may claim different for PR reasons.
Edited by Aquarius on 16-03-2012 18:27
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 16-03-2012 18:29
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7681
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Ste117 wrote:
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
CLURPR wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
lluuiiggii wrote:
sam1196 wrote:
If Valverde is now overperforming he was Superman+Merckx+Hinault before his ban... So i don't think he's overperforming.
Shouldn't be that be if he was underperforming? Or am I just mistaken?
You make me doubt my own saying. No I mean if some think that Valverde is overperforming 2012 season so far. He certainly was in his super years, wich he wasn't. THat's just his class. If toure a hater you just can't denie that he's a super cyclist.
CLURPR wrote:
p3druh wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
sutty68 wrote:
Mmmm, another 100 ways for Spanish cyclists to go undetected
This is not a nice comment, there are lot of riders who are way overperforming this season and not a single one of them is spanish
Totally agree, Valverde for one
Ironic that such a post came from someone from Great Britain. Tiernan-Locke, Wiggins (who beat Valverde) and Sky's season so far ring any bells to you?
Lol I love how you think Wiggins doped because he managed to beat Valverde. That is funny! As for Tiernan-Locke he could be doing what Westra is doing and Team Sky have one hell of a squad this season so why shouldn't they be doing well? Heck even OPQS have had a better season, I don't hear you saying anything about them!
For me suspecting someone to dope is about his riding style. If a rider e.g Westra, Wiggins (don't blow my head of now) suddenly starts to climb very very well than that makes me doubt about if he is "clean" or not.
We don't have any reason to doubt about OPQS, Boonen had always a good sprint and Cobbles skill in the past and he's just showing that he's not to old yet. Idem for Chavannel, he has always been a great cyclist and just continues to do that. His capacities on mountains arent improved (Mende, Col d'Eze TT) strangely this season. Chichi, had always had the speed. Fenn, think about his time wit the U23... So what's the point with suspecting dope in OPQS?
I'm not saying you suspect OPQS, i'm just saying that it doesn't make sense to suspect them. Only the past wasn't quite clean (Mapei). Is there any rider who's now in OPQS that had been caught earlier? I don't think so.
Wiggins has been climbing well for years though? And Sky is an anti-doping team I don't think Brailsford would allow any to dope, it just angers me when people make false doping accusations simply because they beat another rider!
The original point was that it was Valverde who was overperforming but in fact there are many more British riders who are turning in unusually good performances. And just 'cause Brailsford says it antidoping...
Great Britain are an Anti Doping country, why would the likes of Wiggins risk a lifetime ban from representing GB with his back catalogue of success
Because he probably wouldn't get caught. Maybe because they're it on it with him. There are many possible reasons. Doesn't mean any of them are true...but...
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 16-03-2012 19:04
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In fact, all countrys are anti-doping in means of that they don't tolerate doping in sports.
The difference is that some nations invest more in finding out doping-sinners and punishing them.
What i don't get is why that there are still punishements spoken by the federation of the country while TAS, UCI or WADA can just overrule them. Why not letting those 3 organisations lead investigations and stop all the different national investigators and judges?
Or am i completely wrong?
because i think it isn't functionating how it should be...
Like now with alberto, case hang in the air for over a year and now he's suspended with past-working thing. You can say he cheated the whole cycling world now. The races were influenced by him.
And Kolobnev? That's a case wich in dont get.
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| Lachi |
Posted on 16-03-2012 19:12
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
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Controlling athletes does cost money, therefore it would be impossible for the UCI or WADA to control all athletes on this planet. Also if the national organizations pay for the controls, then want to be in charge.
Finally all boils down to the olympics. To be allowed there, the National Olympic Committee has to prove that it fights doping. So they enforce each national sports organisation to do doping test.
But of course these national sports org. live from sponsors, therefore they cannot find to many dopers else they would lose sponsors.
And round and round it goes, this stupid game...
Edited by Lachi on 16-03-2012 19:12
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| sam1196 |
Posted on 16-03-2012 19:15
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So they actually "hide" some of the athletes who got caught? And not Punnishing depending from the inportance of the sponsor that sponsors the athlete?
That's sick.
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