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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 22-01-2015 15:28
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Classics Specialist
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Ian Butler wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
I didnt know the guy before he beat Cav 2 times in a row, but I know one thing for sure, if you are doing that you deserve more than 72 for sure. I am aware of the south american/european argument and so forth, but beating the heck out of Cav who has been adament about wanting to win every sprint.. man, you dont ever beat him 2 times in a row in PCM with 72.
Okay but that logic bites you back in the ass. Allow me to explain.
Say we don't hear from the sprinter again (that's definitely possible), then a +72 sprinter will perform very well throughout the season on PCM. See how that logic doesn't work?
Imagine you could peak 100% for a race in January on PCM. Then a 72 sprinter could take on Cavendish. But you can't. Therefor it can't be solved. And it's a bit more realistic to make him lower so he's more invisible throughout the season, which he probably will be then to bring him up a level and have him do well all through the season.
Therefore, we wait and see what he does for the rest of the season. We won't hear from Gaviria again because he is in a south american ct teamso he won't ride many races after february-march
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan'
Gracias Alberto.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 22-01-2015 15:28
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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Riis123 wrote:
I love how you ignore my second part which explains my logic behind why I think you should reward him with atleast 73. Its just not a coincidence win you not only beat Cav, but the whole field 2 times in a row. I could understand it could be a fluke if he just did it one time, but 2 times? That doesnt happen with 72.
I get your point, but it doesnt make me wanna shy away from the fact that it seems a tad low after such performances
I didn't ignore it. I said it's perfectly possible to beat Cav in form 5 in the game with a 72 sprinter on form 1. Unfortunately in January that's impossible in the game. (to have form 1. EDIT)
He might deserve a higher sprint stat, I'm not saying he shouldn't. But I'm saying we wait. And I mean that generally, too. A lot of people always want to up stats after a victory or something, but these stats should be seen over periods of time, which the stat makers do.
His result won't go unnoticed. But it might be possible he only gets 72 come the next database, if this is all he does this season.
Edited by Ian Butler on 22-01-2015 15:30
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 22-01-2015 16:01
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Grand Tour Specialist
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But as The Schleck Fan noticed, we probably wont see him that much more which makes the 'he needs to prove more despite he clearly is a better sprinter than 72 depicts' and thats also flawed.
Edited by Riis123 on 22-01-2015 16:02
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 22-01-2015 16:04
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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Riis123 wrote:
But as The Schleck Fan noticed, we probably wont see him that much more which makes the 'he needs to prove more despite he clearly is a better sprinter than 72 depicts' and thats also flawed.
Maybe, but the fact that we won't see him again is also an indicator he's not all that good*. Except if he isn't ambitious enough to sign with a big team, maybe he wants to stay in his own country, I don't know. In that case, it's impossible to implement him properly in PCM anyway, because there's only 1 South American race.
*of course he's good, but you know what I mean 
Edited by Ian Butler on 22-01-2015 16:05
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 22-01-2015 16:11
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World Champion
Posts: 10891
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He will be a Free Agent.
Gavira will ride with Colombian U23 team. Avenir, Worlds and other U23 races. But it's this performance that will get him PT teams calling with contracts for next season.
Anyway what his stats will be. Who knows
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 22-01-2015 16:13
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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It'll be interesting to see him in Tour d'Avenir!
On another note, al-knowing Alakagom, do you happen to know if Ewan will race U23 Worlds again this year or (if selected) with the pros? Or can he choose at this point?
Edited by Ian Butler on 22-01-2015 16:14
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 23:02
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 22-01-2015 16:23
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World Champion
Posts: 10891
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Well actually Ian Gaviria already raced Avenir this year. He was 5th (2nd from peleton) 8th and 3rd in three stages finishing on 2nd position in points classification .
Ewan can't race (I believe). Never seen PT contracted race the U23.
Edited by Alakagom on 22-01-2015 16:24
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| clamel |
Posted on 22-01-2015 17:55
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1361
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UCi rules says that no PT contracted rider can race in U23.
Sad enough Cyanide hasn't got all this correct. In the game I think ONLY free agents U23 riders can ride in the U23 races that's in the DB.
ALL U23 riders in game (not counting PT riders) should be able to start.
Then the rules on x.HC <and x.1 races also is strange.
x.HC permits max 70% PT teams in a race and
x.1 permits max 50% PT teams.
What I have seen this is not the case in PCM sadly enough.
My point on stats would be that the riders that are totally wrong should be the focus, not debating if a sprinter should have 72 or 73.
Lots of teams states who are sprinters in the team and in some cases the stats on these are down on 62-63.
I am talking about the small Cont teams of course, where it is much harder to get the stats wrong. But a sprinter, climber, TT should be just that.
On this matter it takes 200% effort of the team and endless searching website, and that is toooo much to ask.
You guys are doing a great work on what has been presented.
Thanks mates.
Edited by clamel on 22-01-2015 18:05
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“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” 
"If thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 22-01-2015 23:47
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I was looking Rujano. In the DB is 71, Do you think is possible 72/73??? He improves the last year a little |
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 23-01-2015 04:26
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
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Why is John Degenkolb 80 SP 79 in ACC while Demare, Bouhanni Kristoff are 80 SP 80 ACC ? |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 23-01-2015 09:02
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Directeur Sportif
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fidjim2013 wrote:
Why is John Degenkolb 80 SP 79 in ACC while Demare, Bouhanni Kristoff are 80 SP 80 ACC ?
Because we think he deserves a lower ACC than both 2
@AiZaK, I don't wanna explain again what I said in my last post in the Stat Discussion. Probably his season objective was Tachira and indeed he raced very well there, but is quite unreasonable that he'll do well in other non-domestic races, in which he won't take part, don't forget it, as he's indeed part of a colombian domestic team 
Also, his opponents in that race clearly don't deserve such an high stat
@Gaviria stats discussion, What Alak said about the races he will take part to basically explains why we are not going to give him such high stats.
Its just not a coincidence win you not only beat Cav, but the whole field 2 times in a row. I could understand it could be a fluke if he just did it one time, but 2 times? That doesnt happen with 72.
The same happened with Diaz, even though the situation is clearly different for a climber and for a sprinter, but we're not going to up his stats in a huge way for that reason. If Gaviria gets a 74 he would definitely destroy every single pack in a U23 race. That's not what we want, a 73 is arguable, higher stats could if he proves that he can deserve them in the next stages or in other races
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 23-01-2015 11:07
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I guess even you do not know when it will update or I'm wrong |
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| clamel |
Posted on 23-01-2015 14:18
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If you guys are messing about with stats I would like you ti have a look at the little known aussie Jack Haig. Not unknown Down Under however, but in the shadow of many other great riders and future stars from Australia.
He has been doing good at the start of this Tour Down Under, won the NRS crown last year, got picked up by Orica for this year. That after winning the Young Rider jersey in both TDU and Herlad Sun Tour at the start of last year.
He is far better TT rider than the present stats show and I think he has proven his ACC and Hill performance many times.
Last keeping up with Mick Rogers, Cadel Evans and Richie Porte, and almost Rohan Dennis at the steep fast climb up the Parracombe Hill in TDU
Suggest a small increase (or bigger) at TT, acc and surely Hill.
Notes on his little known status is that some DB doesn't even have him included.
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“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.”
"If thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
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| matt17br |
Posted on 23-01-2015 14:22
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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clamel wrote:
If you guys are messing about with stats I would like you ti have a look at the little known aussie Jack Haig. Not unknown Down Under however, but in the shadow of many other great riders and future stars from Australia.
He has been doing good at the start of this Tour Down Under, won the NRS crown last year, got picked up by Orica for this year. That after winning the Young Rider jersey in both TDU and Herlad Sun Tour at the start of last year.
He is far better TT rider than the present stats show and I think he has proven his ACC and Hill performance many times.
Last keeping up with Mick Rogers, Cadel Evans and Richie Porte, and almost Rohan Dennis at the steep fast climb up the Parracombe Hill in TDU
Suggest a small increase (or bigger) at TT, acc and surely Hill.
Notes on his little known status is that some DB doesn't even have him included.
We perfectly know about him and what's sure is that we won't overlook him, we have a special focus on the youngsters hehe
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| clamel |
Posted on 23-01-2015 14:37
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I am glad to hear that !
Plenty of riders are aiming to pick up the vacuum from Cadel Evans for the Green and Gold country.
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“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.”
"If thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
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| clamel |
Posted on 23-01-2015 23:09
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1361
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Talking about young sprinters I am sure you noticed the polish-born italian top amateur sprinter last year:
Jacub Mareczko
Perhaps he should be added to the DB, already in this 2014 version.
He for one have beaten Ewan in a straight sprint I recall. Might remember wrong but guess he could be compared with this new colombian sprinter.
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“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.”
"If thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 24-01-2015 00:12
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
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matt17br wrote:
fidjim2013 wrote:
Why is John Degenkolb 80 SP 79 in ACC while Demare, Bouhanni Kristoff are 80 SP 80 ACC ?
Because we think he deserves a lower ACC than both 2
@AiZaK, I don't wanna explain again what I said in my last post in the Stat Discussion. Probably his season objective was Tachira and indeed he raced very well there, but is quite unreasonable that he'll do well in other non-domestic races, in which he won't take part, don't forget it, as he's indeed part of a colombian domestic team
Also, his opponents in that race clearly don't deserve such an high stat
@Gaviria stats discussion, What Alak said about the races he will take part to basically explains why we are not going to give him such high stats.
Its just not a coincidence win you not only beat Cav, but the whole field 2 times in a row. I could understand it could be a fluke if he just did it one time, but 2 times? That doesnt happen with 72.
The same happened with Diaz, even though the situation is clearly different for a climber and for a sprinter, but we're not going to up his stats in a huge way for that reason. If Gaviria gets a 74 he would definitely destroy every single pack in a U23 race. That's not what we want, a 73 is arguable, higher stats could if he proves that he can deserve them in the next stages or in other races
Don't get me wrong but Demare hasn't got a single victory in a grand tour while the others have done it already and he's at the same level with 80SP 80ACC , he should of been 79SP 80ACC.
Edited by fidjim2013 on 24-01-2015 00:14
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 24-01-2015 00:31
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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tbh, I would like to see Degenkolb with a higher SP than Bouhanni and Demare. But with the same/or a lower ACC. But when Bouhanni gets 80 Sp, it would be overkill to give Degenkolb 81, i think. However, could be that i have this opinion, because I'm german.
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 24-01-2015 00:36
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Paul23 wrote:
tbh, I would like to see Degenkolb with a higher SP than Bouhanni and Demare. But with the same/or a lower ACC. But when Bouhanni gets 80 Sp, it would be overkill to give Degenkolb 81, i think. However, could be that i have this opinion, because I'm german.
I agree degenkolb would deserve a higher SP than Demare but no higher than bouhanni because if you looked carefully to their matchup in real life in the last vuelta they were quite even. |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 24-01-2015 00:53
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
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fidjim2013 wrote:
Paul23 wrote:
tbh, I would like to see Degenkolb with a higher SP than Bouhanni and Demare. But with the same/or a lower ACC. But when Bouhanni gets 80 Sp, it would be overkill to give Degenkolb 81, i think. However, could be that i have this opinion, because I'm german.
I agree degenkolb would deserve a higher SP than Demare but no higher than bouhanni because if you looked carefully to their matchup in real life in the last vuelta they were quite even.
I wouldn't think so...Bouhanni only won, when his leadout was perfect. Degenkolb could win the green jersey at the end...I would think Bouhanni would deserve a higher HI atm(i don't know what he has atm)
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