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TdF'13 Stage 15 - Givors to Mont Ventoux (July 14)
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 14-07-2013 22:23
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29. Nauke Mollema ________ NED | 50:21 | 2013
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 14-07-2013 22:30
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Dat thread name: "Ammattilaispyöräilijöiden nousutietoja".
There's a fine line between "psychotherapist" and "psycho the rapist"
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| issoisso |
Posted on 14-07-2013 22:45
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Quintana: 'I started working on the front at the end because Froome told me he'd give me the stage. After I worked he attacked'
Reporter: 'Did you have an agreement with Quintana?'
Froome: 'No'
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 14-07-2013 22:47
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Froome seemed to confirm Quintana's version on the French TV though.
His French is decent, so I guess it can't be blamed. He said he dropped him after Quintana weakened with 2 km to go (and his nose started bleeding, which I didn't notice on TV). |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 14-07-2013 22:47
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Someone learnt from Lance
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 10:29
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 14-07-2013 22:50
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Aquarius wrote:
Froome seemed to confirm Quintana's version on the French TV though.
His French is decent, so I guess it can't be blamed. He said he dropped him after Quintana weakened with 2 km to go (and his nose started bleeding, which I didn't notice on TV).
On cn he said that his nose was already bleeding from the start of the climb
But it's cyclingnews so very likely that it's bad translation
He also says there that Froome would give him the win if they were still together but couldn't follow
Edited by Spilak23 on 14-07-2013 22:53
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| wogsrus |
Posted on 14-07-2013 23:42
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https://app.strava...s/67057155
Ten Dams stats from todays stage. |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 14-07-2013 23:49
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issoisso wrote:
Quintana: 'I started working on the front at the end because Froome told me he'd give me the stage. After I worked he attacked'
Reporter: 'Did you have an agreement with Quintana?'
Froome: 'No'
I was 100% sure he'd gift the win with 3k to go when Quintana started working after they talked for a moment, I found it rather obvious he wouldn't do it voluntarily.
Doubt Froome needs those extra seconds, but half a minute is nothing to give up on just for those few pulls either.
Lying isn't the way to go still, though Sky's well-trained in that.
Edited by cio93 on 14-07-2013 23:50
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| Mwuhi |
Posted on 15-07-2013 00:00
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cio93 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Quintana: 'I started working on the front at the end because Froome told me he'd give me the stage. After I worked he attacked'
Reporter: 'Did you have an agreement with Quintana?'
Froome: 'No'
I was 100% sure he'd gift the win with 3k to go when Quintana started working after they talked for a moment, I found it rather obvious he wouldn't do it voluntarily.
Doubt Froome needs those extra seconds, but half a minute is nothing to give up on just for those few pulls either.
Lying isn't the way to go still, though Sky's well-trained in that.
In a interview with the NOS, he said he only asked to Quintana how good he was and that they should help each other for a while to get more time. And then he just went, and he didn't though Quintana would break, but he did.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 15-07-2013 00:46
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Either Quintana is stupid or Froome is a bastard. And we already know the latter is true.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| fickman |
Posted on 15-07-2013 00:56
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Seems like Quintana was completely empty for trying to follow Froome
and Froome even had energy to made a rare celebration  |
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| aymen |
Posted on 15-07-2013 05:08
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Oh i finnally came back after a long absence to defend the Sky and froome, according to top 50 in this last 15 years there is no surprise that Froome is Better than Andy Schleck who was young in 2009 , imagine now A. schleck with full mood i think he was gonna crush froome but thanks god that's not the case because i will cry for him losing the tour in the TT , I like Froome and Schleck the most clean and natural rider in the peloton and i'm a bit surprised to see people encouraging contader a cheater and former dopped guy in prefence of froome wich suspicious certainly but not positif declared
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| Bikex |
Posted on 15-07-2013 05:26
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aymen wrote:
Oh i finnally came back after a long absence to defend the Sky and froome, according to top 50 in this last 15 years there is no surprise that Froome is Better than Andy Schleck who was young in 2009 , imagine now A. schleck with full mood i think he was gonna crush froome but thanks god that's not the case because i will cry for him losing the tour in the TT , I like Froome and Schleck the most clean and natural rider in the peloton and i'm a bit surprised to see people encouraging contader a cheater and former dopped guy in prefence of froome wich suspicious certainly but not positif declared
wtf? I have seen some to defend Froome.. okay but to call Froome and Schleck the "most clean and natural" riders in the peloton is a little bit ridiculous right? |
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| Smowz |
Posted on 15-07-2013 07:14
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More lack of objectivity from the conspiracy theorists.
I am not saying here that I don't believe that Froome is doping or Froome is clean - I don't really feel qualified either way to comment. I simply like to enjoy the race I see in front of me. However I do feel some of the so called mountain of evidence somewhat questionable.
The 'Quintana-Froome' thing - Quintana definitely faded at the end Froome largely held his gap to the others (who were mainly led by Ten Dam in the last 4/5kms). Clearly Quintana who attacked somewhere between 11 and 12km to go was nearly empty. He cracked, possibly after a Froome acceleration (hard to tell with Froome's hard to enjoy cycling style - not sure he was 'full retard' )
Those oxygen mask pictures are pretty shocking for Quintana, I believe Froome also had to take Oxygen. It was not a Sunday one hour ride for Froome either. This is yet another example of 'cherry-picking' the facts.
The times are interesting and surely incomplete (looks like the last four ascents have been unofficially recorded)- I probably sound like a head in the sand type but to me they along with the Ax 3 Domianes ones don't really prove a jolt. The sample size is a little small for my liking - it shows that Ventoux is used sparingly and in the last four editions the winners have had to go up it in around or less than 49 minutes. That's about it. Yes, yes it involves several times of Armstrong, the guy won (and then lost) seven editions of the Tour, what list of times between 2000 and 2013 wouldn't.
If one was to believe that yesterdays times were indisputable proof of doping then clearly Froome, Quintana, Nieve at least must all be on something based on that climb of Ventoux yesterday.
There is a couple of other strange conspiracy theories out there - one is that if Sky wanted we could have a 'Ritchie Froome' one-two. Somehow Baldy Brailsford told Porte to drop back on the Movistar mass attack mountain stage and on the echelons stage. (two fantastic road stages by the way). That's clutching at straws if you ask me, a determination to find ill in anything Sky does or in this case doesn't do.
The other one that I fail to see is that ex-Sky riders have a considerable drop in performance post Sky. Nordhaug, Cavendish, Gerrans, Flecha and yes even Rogers, I am not seeing any difference between there Sky performances and their post Sky performances. Again for those who believe in whole scale doping at Sky - it must therefore mean that those practices have been taken to Belkin, Saxobank and Movistar at least.
I can understand the hate and frustration - the vast majority of 'intelligent' cycling fans, including myself, highly question Froome's performances. No more than at times I question the performance of Cancellara, Nibali, Sagan and when he is on top Gilbert. I might as well throw Dan Martin out there as well. That is the previous dopers effect, in the land of the 'sport of professional cycling' every performance is suspect.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 15-07-2013 07:17
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Quintana would've been an amazing winner here, but it would be downright stupid to give away a victory. Froome was the strongest, so it's right he won, (if he's clean, that is) |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 15-07-2013 08:12
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Smowz wrote:
More lack of objectivity from the conspiracy theorists.
I am not saying here that I don't believe that Froome is doping or Froome is clean - I don't really feel qualified either way to comment. I simply like to enjoy the race I see in front of me. However I do feel some of the so called mountain of evidence somewhat questionable.
The 'Quintana-Froome' thing - Quintana definitely faded at the end Froome largely held his gap to the others (who were mainly led by Ten Dam in the last 4/5kms). Clearly Quintana who attacked somewhere between 11 and 12km to go was nearly empty. He cracked, possibly after a Froome acceleration (hard to tell with Froome's hard to enjoy cycling style - not sure he was 'full retard' )
Those oxygen mask pictures are pretty shocking for Quintana, I believe Froome also had to take Oxygen. It was not a Sunday one hour ride for Froome either. This is yet another example of 'cherry-picking' the facts.
The times are interesting and surely incomplete (looks like the last four ascents have been unofficially recorded)- I probably sound like a head in the sand type but to me they along with the Ax 3 Domianes ones don't really prove a jolt. The sample size is a little small for my liking - it shows that Ventoux is used sparingly and in the last four editions the winners have had to go up it in around or less than 49 minutes. That's about it. Yes, yes it involves several times of Armstrong, the guy won (and then lost) seven editions of the Tour, what list of times between 2000 and 2013 wouldn't.
If one was to believe that yesterdays times were indisputable proof of doping then clearly Froome, Quintana, Nieve at least must all be on something based on that climb of Ventoux yesterday.
There is a couple of other strange conspiracy theories out there - one is that if Sky wanted we could have a 'Ritchie Froome' one-two. Somehow Baldy Brailsford told Porte to drop back on the Movistar mass attack mountain stage and on the echelons stage. (two fantastic road stages by the way). That's clutching at straws if you ask me, a determination to find ill in anything Sky does or in this case doesn't do.
The other one that I fail to see is that ex-Sky riders have a considerable drop in performance post Sky. Nordhaug, Cavendish, Gerrans, Flecha and yes even Rogers, I am not seeing any difference between there Sky performances and their post Sky performances. Again for those who believe in whole scale doping at Sky - it must therefore mean that those practices have been taken to Belkin, Saxobank and Movistar at least.
I can understand the hate and frustration - the vast majority of 'intelligent' cycling fans, including myself, highly question Froome's performances. No more than at times I question the performance of Cancellara, Nibali, Sagan and when he is on top Gilbert. I might as well throw Dan Martin out there as well. That is the previous dopers effect, in the land of the 'sport of professional cycling' every performance is suspect.
You are right with lack of objectivity Smowz, it is like you were not in this forum for months, when half of info in your post was discussed before.
1.Enjoy? Every man has his own taste, but what is enjoyable on this inhuman performances and on looking on someone with 187cms and 66kgs!!! absolutely ripping apart the opposition.
2.Quintana faded because he was not longer in slipstream of Froome, where he spent majority of second part of the climb and where he had time to recover a bit. Once Froome accelerated just for fun, he was looking like he stopped. Nobody seen dead Froome taking oxygen, just kissing his stupid girlfriend. Quintana was seen to be almost on the other side...
Also Quintana is Colombian, who should be more used to higher altitudes and was absolutely anihilating the opposition in U23 races climbs. Still he was some 45 seconds slower on the climb, Nieve was 1.30 slower and so on.
3.What do you mean by incomplete times of climbing in Ax3 or Ventoux? You think that people who were stopping the time were cheating just for fun? Or that fact that Froome is comparable with times of biggest dopers in history of cycling like Armstrong, Pantani, Ullrich as an imagination served by jealous people outside of GB?
Of course that wind, speed of peloton (which was insane for 220 kms yesterday!!!) can made the actual climbing times different, but one cannot laugh when seeing Froome slowing down before taking the corner to avoid crashing, just because he was fucking flying when others where dying.
4.Porte was not told to hold back in second mountain stage, he just used his blood bag a day too soon and was doing a Landis revival. Dropping climbing stars left and right one day, being shite the other day. And dropping them again yesterday bar Contador and Kreuziger (these two exploded right after that), before cruising to the finish and smiling all the way to the cameras.
5.Your point with ex-Sky riders doing good now. Nordhaug,really? And Cavendish and Flecha is not good example, as it seems that Sky is choosing their TdF climbing core for their doping program, others are still on normal level. Rogers is also worse now, hard to judge others, lets wait if likes of Kennaugh will be good anywhere else possibly.
6. I am no hating, but yeah, frustration is here. Especially because i follow cycling from 1994 live and i have seen so many doped performances, which i was supposed to believe, that i am sick already with this bullshit. Questioning Sagan compared to what Froome does not make sense to me to be honest. Does he became world beater just from one day to another like Froome who needed new contract in 2011 Vuelta?
Nibali and Cance for example, why not question them, we should question anyone suspicious. Thse two are/were almost certainly doping too. I think cycling is not much cleaner nowadays and performances of 2013 are nice proof of that. Who does not want to see it, come with similar conclusions to yours.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 15-07-2013 08:38
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 15-07-2013 08:23
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aymen wrote:
Oh i finnally came back after a long absence to defend the Sky and froome, according to top 50 in this last 15 years there is no surprise that Froome is Better than Andy Schleck who was young in 2009 , imagine now A. schleck with full mood i think he was gonna crush froome but thanks god that's not the case because i will cry for him losing the tour in the TT , I like Froome and Schleck the most clean and natural rider in the peloton and i'm a bit surprised to see people encouraging contader a cheater and former dopped guy in prefence of froome wich suspicious certainly but not positif declared
I swear, I almost choked on my breakfast when I read this!
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 15-07-2013 08:37
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
aymen wrote:
Oh i finnally came back after a long absence to defend the Sky and froome, according to top 50 in this last 15 years there is no surprise that Froome is Better than Andy Schleck who was young in 2009 , imagine now A. schleck with full mood i think he was gonna crush froome but thanks god that's not the case because i will cry for him losing the tour in the TT , I like Froome and Schleck the most clean and natural rider in the peloton and i'm a bit surprised to see people encouraging contader a cheater and former dopped guy in prefence of froome wich suspicious certainly but not positif declared
I swear, I almost choked on my breakfast when I read this!
Yeah, i am still trying to get my morning cofee stains from my sofa, as i spluttered it out when reading this joke.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 15-07-2013 08:40
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Smowz wrote:
Those oxygen mask pictures are pretty shocking for Quintana, I believe Froome also had to take Oxygen. It was not a Sunday one hour ride for Froome either. This is yet another example of 'cherry-picking' the facts.
Yes, it's an example of people cherry-picking the facts. The people being either you or whoever fed you that information. The oxygen masks have been mandatory for the winner on the Ventoux since Merckx nearly died of Hypoxia in 1970. Froome didn't have a choice.
Smowz wrote:
The times are interesting and surely incomplete (looks like the last four ascents have been unofficially recorded)- I probably sound like a head in the sand type but to me they along with the Ax 3 Domianes ones don't really prove a jolt. The sample size is a little small for my liking - it shows that Ventoux is used sparingly and in the last four editions the winners have had to go up it in around or less than 49 minutes. That's about it. Yes, yes it involves several times of Armstrong, the guy won (and then lost) seven editions of the Tour, what list of times between 2000 and 2013 wouldn't.
That's some of the worst 'logic' I've ever seen. That's the same as saying we have no proof 5 bullets to the face will kill a man just because we saw it happen 3 different times, it's a small sample.
Smowz wrote:
The other one that I fail to see is that ex-Sky riders have a considerable drop in performance post Sky. Nordhaug, Cavendish, Gerrans, Flecha and yes even Rogers, I am not seeing any difference between there Sky performances and their post Sky performances.
You must be trying hard as hell not to see it, then.
Smowz wrote:
Again for those who believe in whole scale doping at Sky - it must therefore mean that those practices have been taken to Belkin, Saxobank and Movistar at least.
And?
Smowz wrote:
I can understand the hate and frustration - the vast majority of 'intelligent' cycling fans, including myself, highly question Froome's performances. No more than at times I question the performance of Cancellara, Nibali, Sagan and when he is on top Gilbert.
What's your point?
Yes, they're all suspicious. Shall we stop criticizing Froome then?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Mwuhi |
Posted on 15-07-2013 08:47
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Stagiare
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
5.Your point with ex-Sky riders doing good now. Nordhaug,really? And Cavendish and Flecha is not good example, as it seems that Sky is choosing their TdF climbing core for their doping program, others are still on normal level. Rogers is also worse now, hard to judge others, lets wait if likes of Kennaugh will be good anywhere else possibly.
He's not doing worse then last year, if you check his results. (See AGR, LFW LBL)
There is of course a difference between the races he ride now and last years. So other peak moments and other kind of races where he needs to peak maybe. So I do understand his point and the riders he mentioned.
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