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PCM.daily DB Stats discussion
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 29-09-2024 04:26
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| jaxika |
Posted on 02-10-2013 09:01
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3146
Joined: 16-07-2008
PCM$: 8700.00
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If the statmakers make him to good, he will be better then real life ... in that case he will win (or podium) the Ardennes, green jersey in GCs and a lot of races...because this need a very carefoul approach ... maybe his cobble stat can be lower then original, because in all of my games he became also a cobble beast 
Some stat approaches for him:
HI STA CO SP ACC
78 79 75 80 80
79 76 76 79 79
78 78 76 79 80
MO around 70-72.
Edited by jaxika on 02-10-2013 09:02
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 02-10-2013 09:08
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World Champion
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I wouldn't give Sagan a cobble stat above 77-78 until he gets a decent result in Paris-Roubaix. He got good results in cobbled races because of his great flat, hill and secondary stats, but he's no cobbler. He lost E3 on the cobbles, he lost RVV on the cobbles both this year and the last. The races he did win, he was never the better on the cobbles.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 02-10-2013 09:09
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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jaxika wrote:
If the statmakers make him to good, he will be better then real life ... in that case he will win ( or podium) the Ardennes, green jersey in GCs and a lot of races...because this need a very carefoul approach ... maybe his cobble stat can be lower then original, because in all of my games he became also a cobble beast
Some stat approaches for him:
HI STA CO SP ACC
78 79 75 80 80
79 76 76 79 79
78 78 76 79 80
MO around 70-72.
Well, these are realistic results for him, nothing unreal. 
I rate him in my games (i rarely play with him, but i like him real)
HI STA CO SP ACC
79 78 76 79 82
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 02-10-2013 09:09
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 02-10-2013 09:10
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
I wouldn't give Sagan a cobble stat above 77-78 until he gets a decent result in Paris-Roubaix. He got good results in cobbled races because of his great flat, hill and secondary stats, but he's no cobbler. He lost E3 on the cobbles, he lost RVV on the cobbles both this year and the last. The races he did win, he was never the better on the cobbles.
To be fair, only Cancellara was better on cobbles last year. And he is what, 83?
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 02-10-2013 09:25
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World Champion
Posts: 10891
Joined: 19-11-2010
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
I wouldn't give Sagan a cobble stat above 77-78 until he gets a decent result in Paris-Roubaix. He got good results in cobbled races because of his great flat, hill and secondary stats, but he's no cobbler. He lost E3 on the cobbles, he lost RVV on the cobbles both this year and the last. The races he did win, he was never the better on the cobbles.
To be fair, only Cancellara was better on cobbles last year. And he is what, 83?
81
Sagan will likely have 77/78, we'll see.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 02-10-2013 09:35
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World Champion
Posts: 14501
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 8500.00
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
I wouldn't give Sagan a cobble stat above 77-78 until he gets a decent result in Paris-Roubaix. He got good results in cobbled races because of his great flat, hill and secondary stats, but he's no cobbler. He lost E3 on the cobbles, he lost RVV on the cobbles both this year and the last. The races he did win, he was never the better on the cobbles.
To be fair, only Cancellara was better on cobbles last year. And he is what, 83?
I have to disagree there, but well, first we need to define "on the cobbles". Do you mean results of cobbled races or cobbled sections only? You're absolutely right when it comes to results this year, and I explained above why. But when it comes to the actual riding on cobbles, and nothing else, there are other that are equaly good or even better. Aside from Cancellara, you have the injured guys like Boonen, Ballan and Nuyens, but I'd also say guys like Vanmarcke and Flecha. Then there's a bunch of guys that I think are more or less equal to Sagan on the cobbles, like Van Avermaet, Langevelt, Terpstra, etc. Sagan is just better and thus beats them off the cobbles.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 02-10-2013 09:37
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Team Leader
Posts: 7357
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Ollfardh wrote:
Then there's a bunch of guys that I think are more or less equal to Sagan on the cobbles, like Van Avermaet, Langevelt, Terpstra, etc. Sagan is just better and thus beats them off the cobbles.
Watch the Oude Kwaremont again. They aren't even close to him on cobbles.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 02-10-2013 09:42
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World Champion
Posts: 14501
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Spilak23 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
Then there's a bunch of guys that I think are more or less equal to Sagan on the cobbles, like Van Avermaet, Langevelt, Terpstra, etc. Sagan is just better and thus beats them off the cobbles.
Watch the Oude Kwaremont again. They aren't even close to him on cobbles.
Well, that's my point, it's Sagan's good hill, endurance and resistance stat that gives him the edge over the others there.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 02-10-2013 10:04
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
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Don't forget how cobble stat works ingame, it has effect outside of cobbled sections too during cobbled race (for example: Paris-Roubaix, cobble stat weights more than flat stat on flat parts, meaning a 85CB,70FL is faster than 70CB, 85FL on non-cobbled flat sections) and Sagan did well on cobbled races. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 02-10-2013 10:05
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
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Alakagom wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
I wouldn't give Sagan a cobble stat above 77-78 until he gets a decent result in Paris-Roubaix. He got good results in cobbled races because of his great flat, hill and secondary stats, but he's no cobbler. He lost E3 on the cobbles, he lost RVV on the cobbles both this year and the last. The races he did win, he was never the better on the cobbles.
To be fair, only Cancellara was better on cobbles last year. And he is what, 83?
Sagan will likely have 77/78, we'll see.
So even higher than i would rate him.
I think 77 should be just fine, or many people will come and cry that he is too good. 
The way the cobble stat work in the game, he needs good cobble stat to achieve something in these races, or he would be crushed there and maybe out of top10 even.
How many people have seen Sagan competing for the win of RvV in the game? I never had, while he is there in real life...
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 02-10-2013 10:07
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 02-10-2013 10:09
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World Champion
Posts: 14501
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 8500.00
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Ah yes, I forgot they changed that in the 13 version
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| jaxika |
Posted on 02-10-2013 10:12
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3146
Joined: 16-07-2008
PCM$: 8700.00
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From 2014 and so on for a few years Sagan its just a beast at the cobbled races on my carreer games (7+) ... |
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| maximus |
Posted on 02-10-2013 10:30
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Under 23
Posts: 67
Joined: 26-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I think he rather needs a boost in CO and a slight decrease in HI. In the game it's relatively easy to hang on to favourites on hilly stages (haven't played 13 though) with an outsider and Sagan hasn't been that good on the really tough stages. On the other hand without good CO it's impossible to achieve anything in RVV and P-R. I think he should concentrate on cobbles next year to really see what he's capable of. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 02-10-2013 10:44
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
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maximus wrote:
I think he rather needs a boost in CO and a slight decrease in HI. In the game it's relatively easy to hang on to favourites on hilly stages (haven't played 13 though) with an outsider and Sagan hasn't been that good on the really tough stages. On the other hand without good CO it's impossible to achieve anything in RVV and P-R. I think he should concentrate on cobbles next year to really see what he's capable of.
Pardon sir, but i cannot agree. He was really not special this year on Ardennes much, i agree (had a very bad day at AGR after tough spring, but good last year and was decent 12th at FW, not present at LBL). But he won Montreal, Brabantse Pijl, was 2nd at RvV,MSR,Strade Bianche and top 10 at Quebec and WC. That is top 10 at almost every race with tough hills he entered, what he was supposed to do so you can call him good at really tough stages? Not even mentioning climbing with Costa or Kreuziger in Suisse, or his TdF climbing.
His problem is that he is simply too good in many areas to be realistically portraited in the game. He would be pain in the ass for players. But be sure he is pain in the ass for real cyclists. 
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 02-10-2013 10:45
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| HijoDelDiablo |
Posted on 02-10-2013 10:54
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Stagiare
Posts: 199
Joined: 19-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Hill stat in my opinion:
Joaquim Rodriguez 81
Philippe Gilbert 80
Alejandro Valverde 80
Carlos Betancur 79
Dan Martin 79
Sergio Henao 79
Quintana 78 or 79 (and slow endurance)
Nibali 78
Kreuziger 78
Rui Costa 78
Sagan 78
Urán 78
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| kubys |
Posted on 02-10-2013 11:00
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Domestique
Posts: 704
Joined: 07-05-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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HijoDelDiablo wrote:
Hill stat in my opinion:
Joaquim Rodriguez 81
Philippe Gilbert 80
Alejandro Valverde 80
Carlos Betancur 79
Dan Martin 79
Sergio Henao 79
Quintana 78 or 79 (and slow endurance)
Nibali 78
Kreuziger 78
Rui Costa 78
Sagan 78
Urán 78
If Sagan have 78, Kwiatkowski must have 78 at least...
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| kubys |
Posted on 02-10-2013 11:05
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Domestique
Posts: 704
Joined: 07-05-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
How many people have seen Sagan competing for the win of RvV in the game? I never had, while he is there in real life...
Me
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| PhilipBusch |
Posted on 02-10-2013 11:22
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Junior Rider
Posts: 36
Joined: 24-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
I wouldn't give Sagan a cobble stat above 77-78 until he gets a decent result in Paris-Roubaix. He got good results in cobbled races because of his great flat, hill and secondary stats, but he's no cobbler. He lost E3 on the cobbles, he lost RVV on the cobbles both this year and the last. The races he did win, he was never the better on the cobbles.
What? The only one who dropped him was Cancellara, he was the second strongest on the cobbles in both E3 and Flandres and the strongest in Gent-Wevelgem. |
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| maximus |
Posted on 02-10-2013 11:38
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Under 23
Posts: 67
Joined: 26-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
maximus wrote:
I think he rather needs a boost in CO and a slight decrease in HI. In the game it's relatively easy to hang on to favourites on hilly stages (haven't played 13 though) with an outsider and Sagan hasn't been that good on the really tough stages. On the other hand without good CO it's impossible to achieve anything in RVV and P-R. I think he should concentrate on cobbles next year to really see what he's capable of.
Pardon sir, but i cannot agree. He was really not special this year on Ardennes much, i agree (had a very bad day at AGR after tough spring, but good last year and was decent 12th at FW, not present at LBL). But he won Montreal, Brabantse Pijl, was 2nd at RvV,MSR,Strade Bianche and top 10 at Quebec and WC. That is top 10 at almost every race with tough hills he entered, what he was supposed to do so you can call him good at really tough stages? Not even mentioning climbing with Costa or Kreuziger in Suisse, or his TdF climbing.
His problem is that he is simply too good in many areas to be realistically portraited in the game. He would be pain in the ass for players. But be sure he is pain in the ass for real cyclists.
Those late-season classics aren't that hard (in game at least) and hilly stages aren't ridden as hard as classics. Anyway I like Sagan being that good, just think it is a bit too much now. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 02-10-2013 11:52
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16362
Joined: 27-07-2011
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Sagan 78 for me. When he wins Liege next year, then he can get 80 okay Avin?
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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