My view: depends on what the objective is. Save our lifestyle? We're not doing nearly enough. Save life on the planet? As if we could ever wipe out life on the planet.
Edited by issoisso on 16-02-2013 14:00
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
As i was living in GB for some time, i met many people who were very unhappy with muslims in England and multicultural policies and i can say i did not wonder much, as some 50% of employees i met in London were muslims (in the shops especially, or another manual work). So the Brits are just lazy to work, or muslims get "their jobs" because they are paid less?
What i dont like is, that many muslims are benefiting from living in UK and still they act and speak like they are forced to something, or like the country were theirs already, not the brits. I feel like they are big hypocrites, those loud muslim mouths
wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
How can one think anything coherent at all when reading the Daily Mail?
I am not using their conclusions, just facts and rest is what i saw and hear in UK perosnally. I know DailyMail is crap like Sun...so that is all you have to say on matter?
The Sun newspaper secretly filmed him saying Islam will overrun Europe, David Cameron and Barack Obama should be killed and calling the Queen 'ugly'.
He said Islam will overrule Europe, and called for assassination, but what's worse, HE CALLED THE QUEEN UGLY! OHMYGOSH!
Damn. Overruling Europe: okay, no punishment. Saying Obama needs to die: Reward him
But calling the Queen ugly: I'd give him the death penalty, right away!
Well, there are clearly problems with the initial post Avin. First and foremost is the use of sweeping generalities with the association of a significant minority with an obviously extreme exception.
The second that I see is the delineation between "Brits" and "Muslims" as if those are mutually exclusive groups.
Europe has a rather dark history of uniculturalism. Surely that is argument enough for multiculturalism.
As i was living in GB for some time, i met many people who were very unhappy with muslims in England and multicultural policies and i can say i did not wonder much, as some 50% of employees i met in London were muslims (in the shops especially, or another manual work). So the Brits are just lazy to work, or muslims get "their jobs" because they are paid less?
What i dont like is, that many muslims are benefiting from living in UK and still they act and speak like they are forced to something, or like the country were theirs already, not the brits. I feel like they are big hypocrites, those loud muslim mouths
As the others have said, the Daily Mail is a terrible newspaper (especially when it comes to the scaremongering and demonisation over immigration and multiculturalism (and, of course, house prices). But, wait, there's more:
Okay, i am rasist clearly. In the end, all the discussions about multiculturalism ends with one side being called (maybe not clearly but still) racist. Because of that, i am out of this, i thought we are more open minded here in the difficult topics.
I only brought this article because of this clearly being a problem in UK (judging from actually speaking with people there, so nice you are denying this as fiction). Sorry if i offended someone.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Okay, i am rasist clearly. In the end, all the discussions about multiculturalism ends with one side being called (maybe not clearly but still) racist. Because of that, i am out of this, i thought we are more open minded here in the difficult topics.
I only brought this article because of this clearly being a problem in UK (judging from actually speaking with people there, so nice you are denying this as fiction). Sorry if i offended someone.
None of us denied it as fiction. We just said the Daily Mail is a terrible source. Of course there are problems in terms of integration and multiculturalism in the UK. But for you to state it as a hugely widespread problem means you're going to have to back it up with some evidence and sources, not the Daily Mail and you talking to a few people
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Okay, i am rasist clearly. In the end, all the discussions about multiculturalism ends with one side being called (maybe not clearly but still) racist. Because of that, i am out of this, i thought we are more open minded here in the difficult topics.
I only brought this article because of this clearly being a problem in UK (judging from actually speaking with people there, so nice you are denying this as fiction). Sorry if i offended someone.
No one's calling you a racist, mate we all have our opinions and, if voiced correctly, no one should look down on yours. Obviously the world's facing some massive problems on the subject of migration!
What I don't get about people ranting on about multiculturalism is... what is their alternative? monoculturalism? Are you going to kick out people who don't live a certain way? Are you going to ban anyone from coming in who don't agree with you?
That's not freedom or democracy.
We have a set of laws and anyone who comes here and lives under them I have no problem with. However, this shouldn't imply that we make "speaking english, drinking beer and eating meat" a law.
Freedom is about standing up for the person who doesn't agree with you on anything, not marginalizing them.
And before anyone calls me a political correct lefty. I am not saying this approach is the correct one. But people who are pushing some kind of control over society need to be clear on that instead of hiding behind "democracy and nationalism" to support their ideas.
Edited by jack888 on 19-02-2013 01:57
You see, one article linked and one paragraph written and i am soon jumped on as the man hiding behind democracy and nationalism, painted as some sort of new Hitler. That is the reason why it is so hard to speak about this topic, because i always find someone screaming Raciiiiist!
So this is my last word on the topic, because nobody is obviously willing to listen what i want to say, instead all read what they want behind my words.
I think i get how baseball feels here most of the time.
Firstly, on the record, I'm all for it, I'm a lefty, idealist and all for peace and love for everyone
But secondly, the biggest problems are
1. People don't want to share their wealth with people who are worse off. Immigrants tend to be supported by the state. (here, anyways)
2. A lot of the old people are used to a community-world. They've known the upcoming of the internet, cell phone... They don't know the Global Village and can't deal with it.
3. People are always moaning and looking for excuses to nag.
4. Not a racist comment, but other "races" all look more the same to us (all Chinese guys look identical, for example), so if one does us harm, we automatically assume they're all here to rob us.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
You see, one article linked and one paragraph written and i am soon jumped on as the man hiding behind democracy and nationalism, painted as some sort of new Hitler. That is the reason why it is so hard to speak about this topic, because i always find someone screaming Raciiiiist!
So this is my last word on the topic, because nobody is obviously willing to listen what i want to say, instead all read what they want behind my words.
I think i get how baseball feels here most of the time.
Part of the problem here is that all you did was to post a ridiculous article, and to say you're against multiculturalism, but you didn't explain your position, or what your alternative is, so people are forced to, as you say, read behind your words.