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News in July
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| Bikex |
Posted on 02-07-2018 15:10
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Team Leader
Posts: 7257
Joined: 25-08-2012
PCM$: 600.00
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Thanks for posting the wada statement, Avin. It adds a whole other level of ridiculity to the case. I can't eat as much as I want to puke. Wasn't the burden of proof on Froome's side? Apparently he didn't proove anything, but it is still accepted.
I'm going to focus my time to watch sports on football now. Compared to the mess that is the UCI the FIFA looks like a charity.
@swsquires: It is very rich of you to pretend like you are in a position to know better. Why don't you assess your point of view? I don't need any medical expertise to notice if something smells fishy and regarding Sky it by now smells like a ocean of dead fish.
Medically speaking your points are probably not wrong, but there are so many could be's by now. Everything I have heard about Salbutamol so far is that it is almost impossible to reach Froome's reading when staying within the allowed dosage. I'm not willing to believe that poor Froome only was unlucky to produce double the amount in his urin. I'm convinced it is much more likely that sports federations are corrupt.
I think hatred is the wrong word to use in connection with sports, I think people are rather disappointed about this unfair ruling and that it once more seems like Sky get through everything. Apparently they were not even able to prove Froome's innocence, which should've been the case. |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 02-07-2018 15:46
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
Joined: 17-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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In Mr. Froome’s case, WADA accepts that a CPKS would not have been practicable as it would not have been possible to adequately recreate the unique circumstances that preceded the 7 September doping control (e.g. illness, use of medication, chronic use of Salbutamol at varying doses over the course of weeks of high intensity competition).
Don't the rules say:
The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL or formoterol in excess of 40 ng/mL is presumed not to be an intended therapeutic use of the substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) unless the Athlete proves, through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal result was the consequence of the use of the therapeutic dose (by inhalation) up to the
maximum dose indicated above
So by that logic there was no legal basis to clear Froome?
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| cio93 |
Posted on 02-07-2018 15:57
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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"You have to prove it's normal."
- "There's no way to prove that it's normal."
"Well then you're good to go."
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 02-07-2018 15:57
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7702
Joined: 24-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Froome is not surviving Alpe d'Huez after this shitshow. Fans will maul him. |
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| Supernutz |
Posted on 02-07-2018 17:33
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Stagiare
Posts: 156
Joined: 03-09-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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I would much prefer the teams which have taken the antidoping pledge banding together to race as one team.
No Sky allowed in breakaways, no waiting for Sky rider falls or mechanicals or nature breaks. No chasing Skyless breakaways. |
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 02-07-2018 17:48
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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How the F..you can like that guy.
Most non charisma tour champ ever. Looks terrible on bike. Now that shit!
Tour is worried. Because they have had taken to much shit from past decade tours. UCI sama time keep defending he's superstars, even if they know that they are quilty ones.
Maybe they just want to fuck with ASO , because that war is not over. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 02-07-2018 19:12
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Selwink wrote:
In Mr. Froome’s case, WADA accepts that a CPKS would not have been practicable as it would not have been possible to adequately recreate the unique circumstances that preceded the 7 September doping control (e.g. illness, use of medication, chronic use of Salbutamol at varying doses over the course of weeks of high intensity competition).
Don't the rules say:
The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL or formoterol in excess of 40 ng/mL is presumed not to be an intended therapeutic use of the substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) unless the Athlete proves, through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal result was the consequence of the use of the therapeutic dose (by inhalation) up to the
maximum dose indicated above
So by that logic there was no legal basis to clear Froome?
Apparently new rule was made up on the run (rule that in special case of being superstar from SKY you are not forced to prove innocence), so Froome could be cleared even when there was not such a rule prior to this situation.
actual reason: WADA and UCI are scared shitless about baning Froome and possible drag of legal process that would follow from side of SKY and their army of lawyers and experts.
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| Gustavovskiy |
Posted on 02-07-2018 19:20
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Team Leader
Posts: 6036
Joined: 20-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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swsquires wrote:
Your last comment in particular made me laugh. Someone who looks at things from a scientific perspective rather than clear emotional hatred will see things clearly.
Ok, so you're right because you're the only one who can see the right things. Ok, noted.
swsquires wrote:
Am I saying Froome or any other cyclist is clean? No. However, do I have a better understanding of physiology and the effects of drugs (whether banned or not).... yes.
Also noted. You're the all-knowing entity, whose opinion none of us should doubt.
swsquires wrote:
The point is that by the end of a three week Tour every single rider is compromised. They will all be "sick" to one degree or another.
Not exactly sick. Their reserves will become depleted yes, but that doesn't justify anything. Everyone suffers from than on a GT and you don't see riders testing positive just because they've hit the 3rd week. Even for Froome this is the 1st time it's happened!
Well Pinot is quite a bad example for your argument. Contrary to Froome's claim he actually got sick. And it didn't happen progressively. He became ill from one day to the other. He finished 3rd the stage before...
Actually that just shows how one reacts when becoming ill after being under enormous physiological stress for a number of days.
swsquires wrote:
Many of the issues will not necessarily affect performance, but will impact how the body metabolises drugs (as was the case here).
Surely Mr. Froome when tested 2000ng/mL in his urine, must have contracted some mild form of renal failure, which somehow didn't give him the usual symptoms like fatigue, shortness of breath or weakness (and even allowed him to win a Vuelta stage, go figure!), but also led him to reach a level that at least 95% can't reach even when taking the max dose allowed (1600ug/day)!
swsquires wrote:
I'm really sorry, but it is so sad that people with little or no knowledge seem to think they know better.
Again sorry for being so ignorant in comparison with you.
swsquires wrote:
Regarding your comment about the parasite, the simple scientific reasoning would be that while he had the parasite it may have affected his performance, even if only by 1 or 2 percent. Once rid of it his body was no longer compromised and thus his performance improved. You have to remember that this isn't a simple 1+1=2. Simple physiology really.
Yes, marginal gains, we've heard that before, Mr. Brailsford
A few years ago I was in your position, defending Armstrong. Read what Bikex wrote. Having medical training doesn't bring much to the table if your going to accept things at face-value. Be critical of what defies your beliefs.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 23:37
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Bot Agent
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| Shonak |
Posted on 02-07-2018 20:00
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Ha
Haha
What a farce, fucking shitshow. Nice PR stunt by ASO, too lol To think for a sec anything would have changed. Froomestrong as vile as ever. This sport is going down the drain and the only thing to do is stop watching and ride our bikes instead.
Swsquires could probably make up excuses for Hamilton's evil twin theory, too lol
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Shonak |
Posted on 02-07-2018 20:06
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Shonak |
Posted on 02-07-2018 21:21
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Froome case shows the system is unequal, says real anti-doping expert
https://www.velone...ual_471254
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 03-07-2018 07:10
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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The expert is right indeed, as it looks like we are entering he new era of anti-doping fight, where authorities thin on money and personnel dedicated just for that one case is being bullied by wealth and power of cycling team (in this case).
It is not direct corruption where money are sent to accounts like in good old Armstrong days, SKY is smarter and even more wealthy and influential to scare WADA and UCI to enter the possible long dragging legal process that would follow any kind of ban or suspension.
Sad and dark times we re heading into, as i dont see any real chance to stop this, someone like SKY will always have the funds to dedicate army of lawyers and experts to the case, while authorities have to deal with all the stuff, not just this one...
Good day for cycling? Keep dreaming 
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| Kalach |
Posted on 03-07-2018 19:41
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 880
Joined: 04-08-2012
PCM$: 300.00
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A bit out of your topic guys...but Marco Pantani was the last cyclist who won Giro - Tour double in 1998 right? Well, its strange because it seems that for Froome it will be not so difficult goal to achieve. Even after he rode Giro everyone see him as favourite (including bookmakers).
I would love to see this liar being caught. But how when you are seeing that cycling authorities are probably not independent and are corupted. What a disguisting show. Just hoping that someone will really kick whole SKY asses. Movistar BMC and AGR2, please show us something. At least it will be a some little satisfaction....
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
_____________________________________________
PCM Velogames Championship - Top Results
* 1st Tour de Suisse ('23)
* 1st Tour de Romandie ('19, '18)
* 1st Tour de Pologne ('20, '19)
* 2nd Tour of California ('19)
* 2nd Tour de Suisse ('18)
* 3rd Tour de France ('23, '21)
* 3rd Giro d’Italia ('22)
* 3rd Vuelta Espana ('23)
* 3rd Autumn Classics ('19, '18)
* 9th Spring Classics ('18)
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| clamel |
Posted on 03-07-2018 22:28
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1361
Joined: 13-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Afte second thought, assault on Froome is too much, lets buoycott the Tour de France as the spectators. It would be nice also to see some reactions from the field of riders...
This might be the best case. We, the fans, shouldn't run around assaulting anybody even how much we dislike this or that. Only idiots do that and that is what has been going on in TDF the last few years.
If one doesn't like a decision that is OK, but attacking anyone is basic wildman behaviour.
It's sad for cycling that so many kind of strange stuff are going around. If other cyclists decide to take action they might watch out. To be honest most of them are stretching limits in help to be better.
Take a thought on your action mate. What if spectators on a football match watching Neymar playing around with his stuff suddenly rush the field to beat him up.
Don't think that is something real sportsfan like, at least not me. The Ref is there to decide.
So many times you get mad on decisions made by the ones who do decide. Often right but many times wrong in some eyes.
Perhaps you prefer that the group of fans with the greatest power of fear inflicting will bring forward their champion in the sport. Sounds like Stoneage behaviour
I'm not a Froome superfan if you thought that, but I hope the sport can stay off the years of Lance and his gang. I come to understand that it will never be completely free of everything. I get mad sometime in skiing with the Norwegians. They pick out children in young ages and start pumping them with asthma medics. They win and win and win, but of course you always doubt how clean they are.
Same thing. If they get caught and it's a solid case they get banned. If not to the love of any sport one has to try and swallow and go on watching,
OR like you might do turn of the TV and play some video games instead. The only one doped will be you, on a pint or something stronger.
Never incite riots either. That's what lynching parties did long time ago. We don't want that do we.
My thought was that Froome should have lost the Vuelta win since that was when he messed up. After that a ban. Which probably have been some 6 months. Then he could have started in Giro and TDF with all things settled.
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“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.”
"If thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
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| Yellow Jersey |
Posted on 03-07-2018 22:33
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2809
Joined: 16-04-2013
PCM$: 900.00
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In hope to divert the thread from all the Froome drama 
I'm really excited to see AG2R and Bahrain at the Tour, cheering for them, how do ya'll feel about their ambitions of podium/win?
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| bike 42 |
Posted on 04-07-2018 08:56
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Under 23
Posts: 69
Joined: 21-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Sorry to bring the thread back to Froome but I spotted this story doing the rounds today
https://www.theti...78402b2388
May be an issue with bias as Times is Newscorp owned so is linked to Sky(I might be reading to much into it) |
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| RA-D |
Posted on 04-07-2018 09:16
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Amateur
Posts: 17
Joined: 01-12-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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Yellow Jersey wrote:
In hope to divert the thread from all the Froome drama
I'm really excited to see AG2R and Bahrain at the Tour, cheering for them, how do ya'll feel about their ambitions of podium/win?
I hope I'm wrong, but I've got a bad feeling Bardet may come unstuck this year. If Porte's luck changes a bit and Movistar don't go 100% T-Mobile, I think Nibali and Bardet will be outsiders for those places. The course seems almost made for Nibali, but I'm not sure if he'll be in form when the mountains roll around. Hope I'm wrong though. |
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 04-07-2018 09:51
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Team Leader
Posts: 6795
Joined: 21-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Yellow Jersey wrote:
In hope to divert the thread from all the Froome drama
I'm really excited to see AG2R and Bahrain at the Tour, cheering for them, how do ya'll feel about their ambitions of podium/win?
I think (and hope) Bardet will be there. Roughly the same preparation as the last two years (which resulted in two podiums) but looking stronger everywhere. His Strade Bianche result makes me optimistic that he'll get over the cobbles intact and then anything can happen. Actually surprised that he is generally listed so far down looking at favourites. Surely two podiums in a row makes him one of the big.
Not nearly as optimistic for Bahrain though. Apart from winning Milano-Sanremo Nibali really haven't been on the level he needs to be this season. I hope he will somehow rise to wreck havoc in the Tour but I have my doubts that he is up for more than chasing stage wins.
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| swsquires |
Posted on 04-07-2018 15:17
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Junior Rider
Posts: 45
Joined: 18-06-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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A few of you might find this article interesting:
https://www.bbc.c...g/44694122
Gustavovskiy - just saw your comments to my previous post. I don't know how old you are, but my first thought (rightly or wrongly) was "grow up". I'm not trying to take an "all-knowing entity" position, as you so nicely put it. I'm just trying to provide a counter point to all the "this is the worst day in the history of cycling" rubbish I was reading. Regarding the sickness comment, I'm reminded of a quote by Allen Lim, who I think worked with Garmin, who stated that 30-40% (or a simliar figure) of riders end a grand tour with some form of respiratory tract infection. Add in other "illnesses" and you do end up with a very unhealthy peloton by the end of a race. Some would indeed affect doping controls.
The article posted by bike 42 is an interesting one (albeit no longer readable), with the guy behind the test saying it isn't valid.
Going back to what I originally said, the result of this with Froome is good for all sports. Instead of this we should be focusing on proper drugs with clear performance enhancing effects. Froome was tested on all 21 stages, so they had a profile of results that virtually no other sporting event offers.
If you were to speak to people who work within anti-doping bodies (as I have with people at UK Anti-Doping) they will tell you all sorts of stories about dirty athletes and that includes some that you would view as whiter than white. Whatever the case and whatever your prejudices, the above linked article from the BBC is an interesting illustration of the level of detail that Sky go to.
Simon
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 04-07-2018 15:24
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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I was going to post that article earlier but thought, "What's the point. Everyone on here has a vendetta against Sky/Froome and would simply say it's somehow proof that Sky/Froome are doping".
Stop wasting your breath swsquires. I've been pointing out there is no evidence of any wrong doing by Sky/Froome for years. Everyone has made their mind up, as the 165 pages of crap in the Sky hating/doping thread proves. Despite not a single failed drugs test by any Sky rider during the period.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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