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News in April
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 10-04-2014 07:28
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World Champion
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ShortsNL wrote:
I think part of that can be traced back to Sky, they shouldn't used him as a water bitch for Froome in the Tour for two consequtive years.
If he'd been given a full leadership role and programme in the same way as let's say Greg Van Avermaet or Peter Sagan, I think he could have been up there with them, or at least nearby.
Nope. 
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 10-04-2014 12:16
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 845
Joined: 28-10-2012
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
ShortsNL wrote:
I think part of that can be traced back to Sky, they shouldn't used him as a water bitch for Froome in the Tour for two consequtive years.
If he'd been given a full leadership role and programme in the same way as let's say Greg Van Avermaet or Peter Sagan, I think he could have been up there with them, or at least nearby.
Nope.
Why not, 16th place in RvV is within Hagen's possiblities 
Oh now I'm just being mean to you. |
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 10-04-2014 12:38
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World Champion
Posts: 10497
Joined: 23-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
ShortsNL wrote:
I think part of that can be traced back to Sky, they shouldn't used him as a water bitch for Froome in the Tour for two consequtive years.
If he'd been given a full leadership role and programme in the same way as let's say Greg Van Avermaet or Peter Sagan, I think he could have been up there with them, or at least nearby.
Nope.
But he could be beating Sagan if he was at his full-potential, which he clearly, he's not. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 10:41
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 10-04-2014 12:43
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3936
Joined: 31-07-2009
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
ShortsNL wrote:
I think part of that can be traced back to Sky, they shouldn't used him as a water bitch for Froome in the Tour for two consequtive years.
If he'd been given a full leadership role and programme in the same way as let's say Greg Van Avermaet or Peter Sagan, I think he could have been up there with them, or at least nearby.
Nope.
Care to elaborate?
I'm a bit annoyed by the situation with Boasson Hagen and Sky. In a way you can "blame them" for not using him enough and not giving him a better chance to go alone (figurativly speaking). I see two reasons as to why his development stopped; Sky used him as a helper too often and Boasson Hagen allowed himself to be used as a helper too often.
I'm not saying he should have led a revolt against the management, but he has seemed to be okay and satisfied with being a helper. Perhaps he was/is satisfied with simply being part of a big team with a big budget and lacks that little drive to go to a smaller team with more room to grow?
There's a fine line between "psychotherapist" and "psycho the rapist"
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| Heine |
Posted on 10-04-2014 13:34
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Grand Tour Specialist
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A few years ago EBH looked on the way to becoming the best rider Norway ever produced, today he looks nothing like it... Looking at Norwegian media all they talk about now is Kristoff :-p
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 10-04-2014 14:13
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Breakaway Specialist
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Heine wrote:
A few years ago EBH looked on the way to becoming the best rider Norway ever produced, today he looks nothing like it... Looking at Norwegian media all they talk about now is Kristoff :-p
Yeah, because Kristoff actually wins stuff fullfilling his full potential. |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 10-04-2014 14:17
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8290
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cactus-jack wrote:
I'm a bit annoyed by the situation with Boasson Hagen and Sky. In a way you can "blame them" for not using him enough and not giving him a better chance to go alone (figurativly speaking). I see two reasons as to why his development stopped; Sky used him as a helper too often and Boasson Hagen allowed himself to be used as a helper too often.
I'm not saying he should have led a revolt against the management, but he has seemed to be okay and satisfied with being a helper. Perhaps he was/is satisfied with simply being part of a big team with a big budget and lacks that little drive to go to a smaller team with more room to grow?
Maybe, or maybe... you know... he just never had the potential to be that good anyway? If he had already reached his physiological potential quite young then there was just no way for him to get better. Sure, he never became better at things like reading races or whatever because he wasn't given leadership, but at the same time if he doesn't have the physical capacity for it, then that stuff isn't going to be tremendously useful anyway.
It is a bit like the Dutch guys who have come out of the Rabobank CT squad - they come out of there looking immensely promising and riding really well, but that team develops them so well that they just don't have that much more room to develop. They just aren't capable of it.
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 10-04-2014 14:21
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Breakaway Specialist
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Count makes a very valid point, and if we should really believe Sky's superior science then Brailsford realized this too.
Problem is, he won 2 Tdf stages. You dont do that if youre only average.
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| weirdskyfan64 |
Posted on 10-04-2014 14:26
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Protected Rider
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Both on different ends of the spectrum as well- what could well be called a bunch sprint at Lisieux, then a slog up Category 2 climbs and Sestrieres into Italy.
Disclaimer- Most of my posts are me thinking aloud. And most of what I think is rubbish.
Winner of a FIFA Prediction Fair Play Award (a phrase becoming increasingly ironic)
"... Because he (me) has a sound tactical mind in general..." jandal7, at 9:30 am GMT on 12th May 2016
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| johnnyjur |
Posted on 10-04-2014 14:39
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Domestique
Posts: 633
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CountArach wrote:
cactus-jack wrote:
I'm a bit annoyed by the situation with Boasson Hagen and Sky. In a way you can "blame them" for not using him enough and not giving him a better chance to go alone (figurativly speaking). I see two reasons as to why his development stopped; Sky used him as a helper too often and Boasson Hagen allowed himself to be used as a helper too often.
I'm not saying he should have led a revolt against the management, but he has seemed to be okay and satisfied with being a helper. Perhaps he was/is satisfied with simply being part of a big team with a big budget and lacks that little drive to go to a smaller team with more room to grow?
Maybe, or maybe... you know... he just never had the potential to be that good anyway? If he had already reached his physiological potential quite young then there was just no way for him to get better. Sure, he never became better at things like reading races or whatever because he wasn't given leadership, but at the same time if he doesn't have the physical capacity for it, then that stuff isn't going to be tremendously useful anyway.
It is a bit like the Dutch guys who have come out of the Rabobank CT squad - they come out of there looking immensely promising and riding really well, but that team develops them so well that they just don't have that much more room to develop. They just aren't capable of it.
In this case it's not about reaching or having a potential. EBH was already winning races. GT stages, both bunch sprints and hilly stages, classics like G-W, and even last year he showed a good figure at RvV, so the abilities have been there. It's like saying Sagan don't have the potential if he suddenly stops winning. I agree that EBH might have "peaked" early, but that shouldn't be the reason to why he's riding worse now. Maybe he has lost the winning mentality, the aggressiveness and the eager to win races. Maybe he has settled to much with being a helper, and that every victory would be a bonus and a surprise. Maybe his victories as young have been a cushion for him. Let's wait until after the Giro and give a better verdict on EBH then
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| weirdskyfan64 |
Posted on 10-04-2014 16:08
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Protected Rider
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Rasch to finally throw in the towel at PR.
https://www.teamsk...25,00.html
Disclaimer- Most of my posts are me thinking aloud. And most of what I think is rubbish.
Winner of a FIFA Prediction Fair Play Award (a phrase becoming increasingly ironic)
"... Because he (me) has a sound tactical mind in general..." jandal7, at 9:30 am GMT on 12th May 2016
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| nacho63 |
Posted on 10-04-2014 16:52
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Sprinter
Posts: 1944
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That was the plan at the start of the season wasn't it? |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 11-04-2014 08:04
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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cactus-jack wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
ShortsNL wrote:
I think part of that can be traced back to Sky, they shouldn't used him as a water bitch for Froome in the Tour for two consequtive years.
If he'd been given a full leadership role and programme in the same way as let's say Greg Van Avermaet or Peter Sagan, I think he could have been up there with them, or at least nearby.
Nope.
Care to elaborate?
I'm a bit annoyed by the situation with Boasson Hagen and Sky. In a way you can "blame them" for not using him enough and not giving him a better chance to go alone (figurativly speaking). I see two reasons as to why his development stopped; Sky used him as a helper too often and Boasson Hagen allowed himself to be used as a helper too often.
I'm not saying he should have led a revolt against the management, but he has seemed to be okay and satisfied with being a helper. Perhaps he was/is satisfied with simply being part of a big team with a big budget and lacks that little drive to go to a smaller team with more room to grow?
I ment he was never going to reach for example 2013 level of Sagan, with 20+wins , green jersey and multiple top10s in monuments in one year. This is not a game, where you put someone on 7 potential and he develops.
I think all that he was not used right things are just excuses, he is simply not great enough to be a Sagan style dominator, that i what i ment with it. EBH has already some great results in his palmares and he is certainly not lame and his carrer is still in front of him, but i just see likes of Sagan or Kwiatkowski being on whole different level...
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 11-04-2014 08:05
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
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Miguel98 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
ShortsNL wrote:
I think part of that can be traced back to Sky, they shouldn't used him as a water bitch for Froome in the Tour for two consequtive years.
If he'd been given a full leadership role and programme in the same way as let's say Greg Van Avermaet or Peter Sagan, I think he could have been up there with them, or at least nearby.
Nope.
But he could be beating Sagan if he was at his full-potential, which he clearly, he's not.
There is not a thing like full potential in real life. You are either great, or you are not. Ifs mean nothing. 
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 11-04-2014 08:08
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Miguel98 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
ShortsNL wrote:
I think part of that can be traced back to Sky, they shouldn't used him as a water bitch for Froome in the Tour for two consequtive years.
If he'd been given a full leadership role and programme in the same way as let's say Greg Van Avermaet or Peter Sagan, I think he could have been up there with them, or at least nearby.
Nope.
But he could be beating Sagan if he was at his full-potential, which he clearly, he's not.
There is not a thing like full potential in real life. You are either great, or you are not. Ifs mean nothing.
On that subject. Do you think there's still growth possible with Sagan? I have this feeling he's stagnating now. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 11-04-2014 08:24
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Ian Butler wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Miguel98 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
ShortsNL wrote:
I think part of that can be traced back to Sky, they shouldn't used him as a water bitch for Froome in the Tour for two consequtive years.
If he'd been given a full leadership role and programme in the same way as let's say Greg Van Avermaet or Peter Sagan, I think he could have been up there with them, or at least nearby.
Nope.
But he could be beating Sagan if he was at his full-potential, which he clearly, he's not.
There is not a thing like full potential in real life. You are either great, or you are not. Ifs mean nothing.
On that subject. Do you think there's still growth possible with Sagan? I have this feeling he's stagnating now.
Hard to tell really, i think even he and people around does not know. Thing is, what we saw with Sagan was not development, but explosion, he was everywhere in just three seasons, winning left and right. That cant last forever, also all the other riders are much more prepared on him and use best tactics to stop him (let him work and he will kill himself).
But maybe he i just having a bad time (not so much, lets not forget he won E3 few days ago) and he will be back to dominating form again. You know what others will kill for, is just bad month for Sagan.
His diversity is both pure gold and dangerous at same time. He has specialist in every terrain against him (and all arounders similar to him), while he is just good at everything (almost). I think that people around him should analyze better, if he should focus more on cobbles, sprints or hilly classics, or he will get frustrated soon.
Btw. i still see him as the stage races in five-ten years.
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| nacho63 |
Posted on 11-04-2014 10:00
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Sprinter
Posts: 1944
Joined: 14-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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"Sir Dave Brailsford has left his post as performance director at British Cycling to concentrate on his role with Team Sky."
https://www1.skysp...sh-cycling |
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 11-04-2014 10:41
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
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nacho63 wrote:
"Sir Dave Brailsford has left his post as performance director at British Cycling to concentrate on his role with Team Sky."
https://www1.skysp...sh-cycling
And now British cycling will mysteriously become shit...
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| cio93 |
Posted on 11-04-2014 16:32
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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Are you fucking kidding me.
No live Giro coverage on German ES.
And I'm not getting Sky only for ES HD.
Are you fucking kidding me.
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| Bikex |
Posted on 11-04-2014 16:35
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Team Leader
Posts: 7257
Joined: 25-08-2012
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cio93 wrote:
Are you fucking kidding me.
No live Giro coverage on German ES.
And I'm not getting Sky only for ES HD.
Are you fucking kidding me.
What? Noo! Which shithead made that decision? |
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