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Mountains and the peloton
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| Rasmusen |
Posted on 14-07-2012 10:40
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 340
Joined: 25-06-2008
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CrueTrue wrote:
CountArach wrote:
Wasn't there something posted up a while ago about resistance being far more important than it used to be? I doubt most modded DBs were away of that.
As I said, this was with the OfficialRelease, Cyanide's own DB.
I also want to point out that the results were alright on paper. The right riders won and some minor time gaps were registered. However, that doesn't change the fact that it was actually a bunch sprint between 20 riders despite hard pace from kilometre 0..
Well finally i succeed to thinout the bunch, its harder then before,
I did it on the mountain stage in swiss, and a giro stage.
Started last climb with 15 riders, small groups enterd the finish, while the mountains before 20 till max 50 riders
What i did the better flat riders relay 70 till 75, then last couple of km (20 to 30) before the first climb put them on 80 till 90 % before they die 99%
then as soon as the climb start, the good climbers on relay 75 till 80%, oo and the guys who died, keep position 75%.
Then riders start 2 lose connection and the final thin out i put my 2nd best climber on 80 infinityrelay, take his wheel with my main climber.
They will fall off like raindrops, and you will see the better climbers move up if the a bit behind in the pack.
Also i used a db from pcmbenelux |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 22:02
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| PCM rulezz |
Posted on 14-07-2012 10:55
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1467
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Is there a difference between stage mode and career mode? I played a single stage and the results were awful (official release and RSM-news DB 2012). I had simulated to the giro in career mode ones and I don't think I had strange results there. What the hell is wrong with this game.
Winners never quit, quitters never win.
It's difficult not to be happy when you're surrounded by Belgians. - Mark Cavendish
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| Ennyzor |
Posted on 14-07-2012 11:35
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Free Agent
Posts: 132
Joined: 22-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Well if you just play a single stage, every rider will be fit. In a Tour or Career mode, not all riders are gonna recover at the same rate, and their form wont be the same as all the other riders. I believe this is the reason why you get these wierd results on single stages.
If the Tour de France was only one stage IRL, then you would see some completely different results aswell.
Edited by Ennyzor on 14-07-2012 11:36
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| CountArach |
Posted on 14-07-2012 11:45
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8290
Joined: 14-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Ennyzor wrote:
Well if you just play a single stage, every rider will be fit. In a Tour or Career mode, not all riders are gonna recover at the same rate, and their form wont be the same as all the other riders. I believe this is the reason why you get these wierd results on single stages.
If the Tour de France was only one stage IRL, then you would see some completely different results aswell.
I thought of this earlier. It might be worth seeing what the effect of the random fitness in career and stage mode would be.
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| PCM rulezz |
Posted on 14-07-2012 11:50
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1467
Joined: 21-05-2011
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Ennyzor wrote:
Well if you just play a single stage, every rider will be fit. In a Tour or Career mode, not all riders are gonna recover at the same rate, and their form wont be the same as all the other riders. I believe this is the reason why you get these wierd results on single stages.
If the Tour de France was only one stage IRL, then you would see some completely different results aswell.
That can be the reason, I didn't never think about that
Winners never quit, quitters never win.
It's difficult not to be happy when you're surrounded by Belgians. - Mark Cavendish
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| alex valceanu |
Posted on 14-07-2012 13:11
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Domestique
Posts: 486
Joined: 04-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Its all about REC . In a stage every rider will have excellnet recovery , but in stage race yhe GC riders will be very good and the others average/good and there wont be such a big peloton in the mountains .btw i said it before in this thread |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 14-07-2012 13:28
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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But as I also showed, I didn't really get remarkably better results in career mode despite playing with the latest patch and official DB. |
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| Vinofan |
Posted on 14-07-2012 23:32
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Junior Rider
Posts: 49
Joined: 28-07-2011
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I used quite some time on the editor to make the REC differences between the best guys and the second best guys bigger. Everything seems to work better now actually (playing career mode and doing the tour atm with Radioshack) |
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| purepasd |
Posted on 17-07-2012 13:22
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Domestique
Posts: 541
Joined: 23-01-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Just got this amazing realistic result with the OfficialRelease with 1.2.0.0 patch. It seems that It gives more realistic results than with the RSMDB, as some of you have also mentioned. I think it's something with the Resistance stat, which quite high in the RSMDB, but i of course don't know for sure. |
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| purepasd |
Posted on 17-07-2012 18:58
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Domestique
Posts: 541
Joined: 23-01-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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What would be the best way to get realistic results, when I have already started a career?  |
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| tozequio |
Posted on 17-07-2012 22:34
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Amateur
Posts: 16
Joined: 02-12-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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Problem is not just moutain AI. I've run some tests in Amstel Gold Race using PCM 2011 and 2012, and it was defintely better in 2011. For example, in PCM 2011, 30 km from the line, there was already some selection, with a main peloton of some 60 riders, and lots of attacks. In PCM 2012 the pack is almost complete (170 riders), and the one or other attack is quickly overriden by the bunch, which is only natural as teams have all the riders to work.
All tests with the last patch and original Cyanide DB. It seems to me the AI is defintely broken.
Edited by tozequio on 17-07-2012 22:35
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 17-07-2012 22:43
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
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Since you mentioned classics, it's a nice time to remember this, from one of Cyanide's interview (this one):
We also focused on the famous "écrémage" (dropping the riders in mountain/hills). This should look strange but we first tightened the difference between good and bad climbers, so it should be less powerfull in theory, but we also worked on a specific AI to make the riders save their energy when this is appropriate.
IRL, a lots of riders could hang more in the mountains than they do, however this is the first thing you learn when you're a non-climber neo-pro: do not waste your energy to make a top-40, save it for later when your sprinter or your leader will need you!
When I read that I didn't like it. Ok, the stage races might get more realistic, but what about the classics? Like 5 and 8 rider groups finishing together in P-R wasn't enough, the difference between riders will now be even closer?
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| tozequio |
Posted on 17-07-2012 22:51
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Amateur
Posts: 16
Joined: 02-12-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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lluuiiggii wrote:
Since you mentioned classics, it's a nice time to remember this, from one of Cyanide's interview ( this one):
We also focused on the famous "écrémage" (dropping the riders in mountain/hills). This should look strange but we first tightened the difference between good and bad climbers, so it should be less powerfull in theory, but we also worked on a specific AI to make the riders save their energy when this is appropriate.
IRL, a lots of riders could hang more in the mountains than they do, however this is the first thing you learn when you're a non-climber neo-pro: do not waste your energy to make a top-40, save it for later when your sprinter or your leader will need you!
When I read that I didn't like it. Ok, the stage races might get more realistic, but what about the classics? Like 5 and 8 rider groups finishing together in P-R wasn't enough, the difference between riders will now be even closer?
Even in stage races it doesn't work well IMO. Just had a finish on stage 4 of the Giro del Trentino, in Passo Pordoi, in career mode, where 44 riders arrived in the same time of the winner. Original DB, last patch. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 17-07-2012 23:08
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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I never got around to try the previous patches much, but from what I have been told the gameplay was much better in the V1 of the game.
I'll probably revert back at some point next week to try it out, but it'd be nice too if other could give it a try. |
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| petz_e |
Posted on 18-07-2012 08:48
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Under 23
Posts: 57
Joined: 14-07-2009
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Weren't these the exact words in a press release earlier this year about the new features?
"Another mountain change is the fact riders who don't have ambitions on a certain stage will decide to drop off earlier rather than fighting to hang on. In real life, a lots of riders could hang for longer in the mountains than they actually do, however this is the first thing you learn when you're a non-climber neo-pro: do not waste your energy to make a top-40, save it for later when your sprinter or your leader needs you."
I really hope that Cyanide will look into this an provide a fix in the next update. Are they aware that there might be a problem with this?
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| Lachi |
Posted on 18-07-2012 08:51
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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They have so many things to fix, that I doubt they will tweak the AI. But you are free to post this problem on their forum if you have not already. |
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| tellico |
Posted on 18-07-2012 10:50
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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tozequio wrote:
Problem is not just moutain AI. I've run some tests in Amstel Gold Race using PCM 2011 and 2012, and it was defintely better in 2011. For example, in PCM 2011, 30 km from the line, there was already some selection, with a main peloton of some 60 riders, and lots of attacks. In PCM 2012 the pack is almost complete (170 riders), and the one or other attack is quickly overriden by the bunch, which is only natural as teams have all the riders to work.
All tests with the last patch and original Cyanide DB. It seems to me the AI is defintely broken.
I just played Amstel in career mode, and play was great. Lots of attacks, finish Gilbert, Vinokurov and my Chavanel. Next: few small groups and two main. For me its great. Patch 1.1.0.3, DB PCM France v3. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 18-07-2012 11:08
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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tellico wrote:
tozequio wrote:
Problem is not just moutain AI. I've run some tests in Amstel Gold Race using PCM 2011 and 2012, and it was defintely better in 2011. For example, in PCM 2011, 30 km from the line, there was already some selection, with a main peloton of some 60 riders, and lots of attacks. In PCM 2012 the pack is almost complete (170 riders), and the one or other attack is quickly overriden by the bunch, which is only natural as teams have all the riders to work.
All tests with the last patch and original Cyanide DB. It seems to me the AI is defintely broken.
I just played Amstel in career mode, and play was great. Lots of attacks, finish Gilbert, Vinokurov and my Chavanel. Next: few small groups and two main. For me its great. Patch 1.1.0.3, DB PCM France v3.
Well, install 1.2.0.0 and your gameplay will start to suck
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| MacC |
Posted on 18-07-2012 11:25
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Sprinter
Posts: 1594
Joined: 15-07-2008
PCM$: 700.00
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I have to say i haven't done any big mountians atges yet but I have done the Mountain satge in Oman and Aundulicia ( I think) and the game play was fine- I even attacaked and all
That was in career mode with new patch and real name DB
Edited by MacC on 18-07-2012 11:28
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| purepasd |
Posted on 18-07-2012 11:36
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Domestique
Posts: 541
Joined: 23-01-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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MacC wrote:
I have to say i haven't done any big mountians atges yet but I have done the Mountain satge in Oman and Aundulicia ( I think) and the game play was fine- I even attacaked and all
That was in career mode with new patch and real name DB
I just did exactly the same stages, and the gameplay sucked.
1.2.0.0 and RSM.
The peloton came to the finish all together, in all the stages. |
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