issoisso wrote:
Honestly I'm just amazed we haven't seen the "Sagan can win the Tour de France!" article yet.
Anytime a young talent of this level comes along it happens so I'm amazed it hasn't come out yet. You know it's going to happen. It always does. Cancellara, Hagen, Boonen, Popovych....every time.
To be honest, noone of these you pointed out did not storm the peloton like Sagan did with his first two years at the pros,maybe Boonen only. But i think it is a long time since somebody like Sagan entered the world of road cycling.
Maybe he can be the first who will make these laughable articles reality?
And there is one change to the previous times cases you mentioned, because Sagan in person is speaking about switching focus if he gets bored in classics, but that is mayn years away maybe...
kumazan wrote:
I don't think we had this discussion, because I do agree Sagan can beat Cavendish. I'm a bit of a Sagan fanboy after all.
I had that with someone and mixed that with our Barca neverending discussions probably.
And i also see Sagan haters everywhere, so i am not sure in front of who i guarded him with my words
This year it will be super-cool matchup, with Cav with his super train at OPQS and Sagan maybe also with some more helpers at Tour, when Nibali is gone.
Not maybe ''some helpers'' . Sagan has been given total lead at Tour with the whole team behind him. I.e He'll have 8 riders supporting him ( can't have more than that )
Anyway, it should be quite exciting indeed. Add Kittel, Goss and Greipel to equation and we may see some of most exciting and even sprints at Tour lately.
With Froome more independent than Wiggins, it'd be nice if EBH gave a go for green jersey too.
Yeah, it will be great show, with so many dedicated helpers, i cant see someone else than Sagan as the biggest favourite for green, if he will not be out of form. There are "only" 6 complete flat stages iirc.
And Goss and Greipel, yes, but i doubt Kittel is able to ride the Tour at some great level now, in my eyes he is not able to come fresh enough to the sprint on so difficult race as Tour, where speedbumps can be lethal for his climbing abilities. Degenkolb would have much better chances imo.
Kittel has the higher end speed I'd say. We can't judge him for this Tour at all, which many do. But I am sure if both go to the Tour, Degenkolb will lead in more hilly sprints, Kittel in flatter.
He has higher end speed, but cant ride speedbumps, his chance is maybe one or two stages per year at most imo.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
To be honest, noone of these you pointed out did not storm the peloton like Sagan did with his first two years at the pros,maybe Boonen only.
But i think it is a long time since somebody like Sagan entered the world of road cycling.
?
In his first 2.5 years in a world tour team Cancellara finished 4th in Roubaix and won the Tour prologue ahead of Armstrong, among other results.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Maybe he can be the first who will make these laughable articles reality?
And there is one change to the previous times cases you mentioned, because Sagan in person is speaking about switching focus if he gets bored in classics, but that is mayn years away maybe...
So did all the others. Even Boonen.
But you're missing something important here: There's a lot less doping now, so we're back to the days of major talents being good from the get go, which simply didn't happen in the heyday of EPO (the last 20 years).
Before EPO this was very normal. Look at the years just before EPO: Fignon wore the pink jersey at 21. Won the Tour de France at 22. LeMond finished third in the tour at that same age. Rominger in his 2nd grand tour was 5 seconds from the overall lead when he crashed on one of the last stages.
It was normal. We're just going back to normality.
Same thing with riders being more all-round, not just specializing in one thing. Guys like Sagan, Gallopin, Degenkolb, whoever, practically disappeared during the EPO years and are now becoming common again. Problem is, people judge "normality" by the EPO years, and they were anything but normal.
Spilak23 wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
Popovych was half plausible though.
Things just turned another way.
It's totally plausible. He finished 3th and 5th in the Giro at the age of 23 and 24 respectively.
I wasn't so much talking about plausibility as I was about how guaranteed these articles are to show up-
Edited by issoisso on 28-12-2012 13:47
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
In his first 2.5 years in a world tour team Cancellara finished 4th in Roubaix and won the Tour prologue ahead of Armstrong, among other results.
True, these are great results also, but it is hardly comparable to green jersey,something like 30 won stages and multiple top 5/10s at monuments before his 23rd birthday, i hope you can see the difference.
But of course you point stands and i also laugh about that at this time, but that does not mean i dont dream about that happening. Dont forget he is also cyclocross and MTB junior world champion, showing his versatility.
issoisso wrote:
So did all the others. Even Boonen.
Didnt know that, okay.
Edit: Nice points you added about EPO and change of many things and i agree with majority, although you also could be more open-minded when judging his incredible results, becuase i dont remember Jalabert winning green at 22 years old, nor getting like five stage wins in one week race....
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 28-12-2012 13:49
I know you're a huge Sagan fan, but have a little bit of perspective here: While Sagan is a fantastic rider, if you compare him to other similar talents at the same age, he's worse: He's Jalabert or Saronni without the climbing or time trialling ability
He's extremely good so let's not make him out to be even better than he is. Setting the bar too high leads to disappointment instead of joy
Celebrate his accomplishments instead of dreaming of even more is basically what I'm saying
Edited by issoisso on 28-12-2012 13:48
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
I think it's still a bit early to put him in any category yet. His true potential is yet to be revealed, I believe. He even might blow his talent and become a second row sprinter, who knows? So much has yet to happen for him to fully develop.
Ian Butler wrote:
I think it's still a bit early to put him in any category yet. His true potential is yet to be revealed, I believe. He even might blow his talent and become a second row sprinter, who knows? So much has yet to happen for him to fully develop.
Maybe. But not necessarily. Look at the guys issued from Rabobank U23, or Jan Ullrich who had achieved much in the junior category. I'm not saying Sagan is like them, I simply don't know (and neither does any one, most likely).
What I'm saying is that the other guys I mentioned had fulfilled a bigger part of their potential at a young age than most of their opponents, which logically means that they have less margin to develop when they reach 23 or 24 years old.
So, Sagan might develop a lot more and become a Jalabert (with less climbing and TTing ability - although TT is not just natural skills, so that could be worked out), or stay at his current level or develop only very little.
The last option is the most likely (then again : I don't know), given he's already at a very high level. Unless he'd start using various doping stuff, he can't improve his power level by 20 % in any area of cycling.
Edited by Aquarius on 28-12-2012 16:20
A little puber threw beer cans at Sven Nys for seven rounds until Nys decided to stop and go after the boy. Seems he tried to talk to him, until someone else decided to push the idiot and make him fall.
They should have a pretty good season. Could be one of the top teams if Farrar can get going in the sprints again, like in 09.
The addition of Nuyens is really good imo.
I'd love Hushovd winning PR or RvV just so the Norwegians go crazy again for old times sake.
Edit: Forgot that Hushovd was on BMC for some reason..... Edited by valverde321 on 28-12-2012 23:50
valverde321 wrote:
I'd love Hushovd winning PR or RvV just so the Norwegians go crazy again for old times sake.
Hushovd is past, now it's Nordhaaaaauuug. Without Ballan, he should be able to have a bigger role in the cobbled classics this year, after that unlucky 2012.
valverde321 wrote:
I'd love Hushovd winning PR or RvV just so the Norwegians go crazy again for old times sake.
Hushovd is past, now it's Nordhaaaaauuug. Without Ballan, he should be able to have a bigger role in the cobbled classics this year, after that unlucky 2012.
Yeah but Nordhaug's wins last year were underwhelming to say the least. Only Alakagom was getting over excited
