I've seen Movistar do a lot worse this season. So much so that Sean Kelly said at the time that they were making no friends in the peleton.
There was the incident at the level crossing in the Tour de Suisse where some riders rode on even though the lights were flashing and the barrier was descending. A whole load of Movistar team made it across and then rode as hard as possible.
When they were told to sit up and wait for the rest of the peleton, they carried on riding and the Tour organisers had to make a barricade of cars to slow then down! They were still arguing when the peleton rode up to them.
Looking at that video, it appears that the Lotto-Belisol rider and the Liquigas rider come together and crash into everyone else when trying to react to the injection of pace from Team Sky.
The heavy pace from Sky continued and they were then joined by Katusha who both slowed after the Movistar car came through to have the discussion with the leaders.
BMC then appeared to get orders to get revenge for Movistar attacking Evans when Wiggins had instructed everyone to sit up but Movistar went anyway. (ironically, the most exciting stage of the entire Tour :lol They surely can have no other reason for doing so, given the team they have at the Vuelta.
Reacting to this Sky, SaxoBank-Tinkoff etc, have to stick to BMC in case they end up a dangerous 5,6,7 minutes up the road.
Truth is, as Roger Hammond said on the highlights tonight, the biggest problem we have with the unofficial rules of Cycling right now is the lack of true peloton-leaders with the respect that people will listen to them the way Indurin, Armstrong, LeMond etc. used to be.
The closest we have to them now are probably Evans, Wiggins and Voigt (problem with Jens is that he's always attacking the whole god-darn time so would never be in the peloton to assume the role!). None of those are in this race so it is probably Contador and because of his individualism and doping history, nobody would listen to him anyway!
Edited by Welwyn on 22-08-2012 00:22
Welwyn wrote:
Looking at that video, it appears that the Lotto-Belisol rider and the Liquigas rider come together and crash into everyone else when trying to react to the injection of pace from Team Sky.
The heavy pace from Sky continued and they were then joined by Katusha who both slowed after the Movistar car came through to have the discussion with the leaders.
BMC then appeared to get orders to get revenge for Movistar attacking Evans when Wiggins had instructed everyone to sit up but Movistar went anyway. (ironically, the most exciting stage of the entire Tour :lol They surely can have no other reason for doing so, given the team they have at the Vuelta.
Reacting to this Sky, SaxoBank-Tinkoff etc, have to stick to BMC in case they end up a dangerous 5,6,7 minutes up the road.
Truth is, as Roger Hammond said on the highlights tonight, the biggest problem we have with the unofficial rules of Cycling right now is the lack of true peloton-leaders with the respect that people will listen to them the way Indurin, Armstrong, LeMond etc. used to be.
The closest we have to them now are probably Evans, Wiggins and Voigt (problem with Jens is that he's always attacking the whole god-darn time so would never be in the peloton to assume the role!). None of those are in this race so it is probably Contador and because of his individualism and doping history, nobody would listen to him anyway!
Fair point, if he didn't ride for the same team as the individualists that are the Schlecks he might be the perfect man on account that in such a diluted era where you don't have one guy who is the 'King' of the sport he is a great rider but no GC contender in GT's! So if he rode for a specialist team based around him, he could fulfil it.
Before you say something, Jens is old enough and cool enough to tell the brothers to go screw one if they don't like his decision.
Fair point, if he didn't ride for the same team as the individualists that are the Schlecks he might be the perfect man on account that in such a diluted era where you don't have one guy who is the 'King' of the sport he is a great rider but no GC contender in GT's! So if he rode for a specialist team based around him, he could fulfil it.
Before you say something, Jens is old enough and cool enough to tell the brothers to go screw one if they don't like his decision.
stage 2 of the 2010 tdf shows he is the best man for that role at the moment
maybe it as for the wrong reasons but he stopped the peloton
even so, voigt attacks too much, wiggins maybe, but everyone hates sky. evans would be the logical one except hes not at vuelta
from the vuelta line up
cobo or valv - except for their pasts and they ride for movistar
gadret and riblon - except ag2r is too small
moncoutie - cofidis is too small
le mevel - wrong personality
menchov - wrong personality
contador - except for history
there is no-one to enforce the unwritten rules, and the only way to move forward is to race with out them, and just, well, race
from the vuelta line up
cobo or valv - except for their pasts and they ride for movistar
gadret and riblon - except ag2r is too small
moncoutie - cofidis is too small
le mevel - wrong personality
menchov - wrong personality
contador - except for history
there is no-one to enforce the unwritten rules, and the only way to move forward is to race with out them, and just, well, race
That is the conclusion Hammond came to, just forget these unofficial rules because they are unenforceable right now.
Bit like my old Uni tutor who suggests Drugs/Doping should just be legalised in all sport, that way there is a record of what everyone is taking which makes the practice safer and no-one is cheating as everyone can do it.
Sounds stupid at first but once you give it some thought you can see their point.
from the vuelta line up
cobo or valv - except for their pasts and they ride for movistar
gadret and riblon - except ag2r is too small
moncoutie - cofidis is too small
le mevel - wrong personality
menchov - wrong personality
contador - except for history
there is no-one to enforce the unwritten rules, and the only way to move forward is to race with out them, and just, well, race
That is the conclusion Hammond came to, just forget these unofficial rules because they are unenforceable right now.
Bit like my old Uni tutor who suggests Drugs/Doping should just be legalised in all sport, that way there is a record of what everyone is taking which makes the practice safer and no-one is cheating as everyone can do it.
Sounds stupid at first but once you give it some thought you can see their point.
made that point ages ago but its a good one that deserves repeating
TheManxMissile wrote:
i kind of understand why people are angry about that (mostly cause it was sky) as it was bad sportsmanship
Good god, why does every Sky fan think that people are only mad about it because it was freakin Sky who did it? The world does not go round Sky, was it with any team and I (and I believe most others) would have strongly disapproved the action. Oh well, it's the same with other blind fans and their "heroes".
As for the lack of a 'leader' in the peloton - why do we need to have a specific person there simply for ethics to be taken in consideration? Notice, I'm not saying that Sky should have stopped, or that they were wrong in pacing - it was simply bad luck for Valverde (and Capecchi), and extremely bad sportsmanship by Sky. They're not the first ones to do it (neither were alone in it today, although I'm not sure what would be the other team reactions if Sky didn't begin it), and won't be the last, but they've just lost the (little) respect they still had, at least with me (not that what I think matters).
But I'm a bit nervous as you can see, so let's have a good laugh:
Sky News:
The peloton initially seemed happy enough to let them go, and their lead had stretched to over 13 minutes before Team Sky decided to step up the chase 30km from home.
[...]
With Team Sky, BMC and RadioShack having no choice but to press on if they were going to catch the break, the peloton split into pieces behind, with several echelons fanning right across the road.
Yeeey, let's all of a sudden start chasing the break who is 13 minutes ahead with 30 kms to go! Makes perfect sense doesn't it?
Ok, we could assume the writer knows nothing of cyclist, but you'd expect Ljungqvist to do, at least a little bit:
"There’s always a lot of confusion straight after a fall and it takes time to know who’s been affected, and who’s been held up behind. Before we knew Valverde was down we were already 50 seconds in front and we had to keep chasing the break before the last climb of the day."
Fantastic. They've managed to beat LeoTard stupid excuses
Well, what a pity (no pun intended ) that Sky can't play fair game in the 4th stage of the race, although we should be used to it by now, just like we've got used to Froome's ridiculous transformation and keeping good form for such a long time right? Valverde looked really strong, and nearly closed the 50-sec gap only with Quintana/by himself.
34. Igor ANTON HERNANDEZ, Euskaltel-Euskadi, at 1:34
39. Alejandro VALVERDE BELMONTE, Movistar, at 1:59
41. John GADRET, Ag2r La Mondiale, at 1:59
51. Jurgen VAN DEN BROECK, Lotto-Belisol, at 3:42
53. Benat INTXAUSTI ELORRIAGA, Movistar, at 3:53
55. Fredrik Carl Wilhelm KESSIAKOFF, Astana, at 4:15
56. Paolo TIRALONGO, Astana, at 4:15
69. Alexandre GENIEZ, Argos-Shimano, at 4:15
72. Thomas DE GENDT, Vacansoleil-DCM, at 5:51
73. Dario CATALDO, Omega Pharma-Quick Step, at 7:17
74. Christophe LE MEVEL, Garmin-Sharp, at 7:17
85. Nairo Alexander QUINTANA ROJAS, Movistar, at 9:28
100. Denis MENCHOV, Katusha, at 9:28
143. Richie PORTE, Sky, at 15:42
I don't see how Quintana is a fail after he paced Valverde for a long time on the early slopes. Menchov and Porte were working for their leaders and doing a lot of pace setting. How is that a fail?
There are two intellectually dishonest defences for Sky used here:
* "the others did it too in the past!"
* "you just hate Sky"
Please, this is primary school arguing.
I respect the people saying that they think riders should race whatever the circumstances - at least that's straightforward. But most arguments I've read here fall into one of the two categories above, and that's just weak.
valverde321 wrote:
I've missed todays stage, but can I get this straight. The Vuelta was loooking good, but now is a two horse race, all because of a fall?
Let's be honest, it was always going to be a one horse race anyway. Rodriguez and Froome are still in a position to challenge Contador and Valverde isn't really that far behind either.
Edited by CountArach on 22-08-2012 07:04
34. Igor ANTON HERNANDEZ, Euskaltel-Euskadi, at 1:34
39. Alejandro VALVERDE BELMONTE, Movistar, at 1:59
41. John GADRET, Ag2r La Mondiale, at 1:59
51. Jurgen VAN DEN BROECK, Lotto-Belisol, at 3:42
53. Benat INTXAUSTI ELORRIAGA, Movistar, at 3:53
55. Fredrik Carl Wilhelm KESSIAKOFF, Astana, at 4:15
56. Paolo TIRALONGO, Astana, at 4:15
69. Alexandre GENIEZ, Argos-Shimano, at 4:15
72. Thomas DE GENDT, Vacansoleil-DCM, at 5:51
73. Dario CATALDO, Omega Pharma-Quick Step, at 7:17
74. Christophe LE MEVEL, Garmin-Sharp, at 7:17
85. Nairo Alexander QUINTANA ROJAS, Movistar, at 9:28
100. Denis MENCHOV, Katusha, at 9:28
143. Richie PORTE, Sky, at 15:42
Great results by Tiralongo and Kessiakof, these are certainly a true team leaders and it justifies Kreuziger doing nothing important at the same time in USA surely. Well done Astana!
And well, Sky are douchebags, but we are used to them as team that does anything to win, so no surprises. And i hate every team that does this, not just Sky (just to make it clear for stubborn english fans).
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 22-08-2012 13:01
I really don't see any part of this that's worth being happy about.
Btw, Gadret, Kessiakoff and Tiralongo were caught behind in the crash. Probably De Gendt as well, or just stuck in the wrong echelon. Van den Broeck, Cataldo, Intxausti and Menchov were the only ones I saw getting dropped from the Sky group on the final climb.
Edited by Pellizotti2 on 22-08-2012 07:28
I really don't see any part of this that's worth being happy about.
Btw, Gadret, Kessiakoff and Tiralongo were caught behind in the crash. Probably De Gendt as well, or just stuck in the wrong echelon. Van den Broeck, Cataldo, Intxausti and Menchov were the only ones I saw getting dropped from the Sky group on the final climb.
Sorry for laughing at them than, but they will suck anyway, maybe they can go for some stage win.
I never expected Kessiakoff, or Tiralongo for that matter, to really compete for a good overall result. Kessiakoff has told Swedish media several times that he's still exhausted from the Tour and is far from the shape he was in last year. A stage win would be a huge success.
Edited by Pellizotti2 on 22-08-2012 07:44
My point is that there was a point where Sky and Katusha decided to sit up (admittedly after the Movistar car came forward) and it was at that point where BMC started to take it up for no other reason than to stick two fingers up to Movistar for what they did at the Tour.
They surely can have no other reason for doing so, given the team they have at the Vuelta.
) that Sky can't play fair game in the 4th stage of the race, although we should be used to it by now, just like we've got used to Froome's ridiculous transformation and keeping good form for such a long time right? Valverde looked really strong, and nearly closed the 50-sec gap only with Quintana/by himself.
