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Tour Down Under Discussion
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| ryant |
Posted on 02-11-2021 10:25
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2322
Joined: 15-08-2012
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Manninen looks awfully like a cheat code at this point, winning 2 in 2 is surprising given how random sprints seem again. Cullaigh had me worried especially after his first 2 race days being outside the top 10. So a 2nd place finish certainly has me upbeat he can be competitive.
Although I have to ask why he's wearing a generic team Jersey when Bar seemed to be wearing our team Jersey in stage 1 :/
 John St Ledger in Team Bunzl-Centrica and Team U25Red Bull Driver in RFactor
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 21:06
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| roturn |
Posted on 02-11-2021 10:35
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Team Manager
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ryant wrote:
Manninen looks awfully like a cheat code at this point, winning 2 in 2 is surprising given how random sprints seem again. Cullaigh had me worried especially after his first 2 race days being outside the top 10. So a 2nd place finish certainly has me upbeat he can be competitive.
Although I have to ask why he's wearing a generic team Jersey when Bar seemed to be wearing our team Jersey in stage 1 :/
Your jersey was in 24 bit instead of 32 bit. Have fixed it for future races but missed it there. Not sure why Bar had the same or maybe similar looking as well? |
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 02-11-2021 11:04
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Classics Specialist
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Damn, every picture I saw I was looking for Manninen and I feared he was a bit too far too actually win it. Then he does that. Amazing stuff.
Sprint AI seems not to have improved too much (or at all) since PCM18, which is obviously not the most ideal situation for reporters and a lot of people. I just hope the people getting screwed now can still enjoy MG though, and soon get some good results and wins as well.
Thanks for the congratulations 
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| Jakstar22 |
Posted on 02-11-2021 12:37
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Team Leader
Posts: 7294
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Wippert looked amazing today!!! Great sprint from him! Hopefully that form continues!! Really good stage for us!
Congrats to the winner and thanks for the report!
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 02-11-2021 13:58
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
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Quite happy with that from AKA obviously. A podium in this kind of field is always great. Already I'm liking him more as a PCT outsider than a CT favorite. No pressure, but still more favored by AI. He surfed the wheels well from the second row and didn't jump the gun, but managed to get up to top speed in time to pass a bunch of guys. He got a little closed off by Manninen too, otherwise he might have been second. A podium and top 10 already makes this a decent race for us. Another placing would make it a genuinely good race, and we could possibly score from the points classification too. Add a Suter breakaway appearance and it's been a very nice start to our year.
However, yeah, the sprint AI really isn't better. I've really struggled to understand why the game picks certain guys like Manninen and Holloway to be not only better, but smarter, than statistically stronger guys like Ewan. It's all kind of a weird hodge podge, but the fact that Manninen's success has so far perservered despite a game change makes me think it must be more than a true lottery, right?
I of course feel for those who see their prized sprinters fail time and time again. I was in that position last year and I know how frustrating it is. The sprint AI really does hurt MG. Personally, I'm happy with my decision to stop investing in sprinters and trying to snag a top favorite. We can all see the randomness at this point, and adapting my strategy was my way of coping not falling victim again. Though obviously it's harder when you've already invested years and years into creating that top guy, only to see him falter. It's not a position I envy.
Thanks for the report! Don't expect anything on the hills and stage 4 is probably too tough for AKA, so a few breakaway days now for us.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| ryant |
Posted on 02-11-2021 14:31
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2322
Joined: 15-08-2012
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roturn wrote:
ryant wrote:
Manninen looks awfully like a cheat code at this point, winning 2 in 2 is surprising given how random sprints seem again. Cullaigh had me worried especially after his first 2 race days being outside the top 10. So a 2nd place finish certainly has me upbeat he can be competitive.
Although I have to ask why he's wearing a generic team Jersey when Bar seemed to be wearing our team Jersey in stage 1 :/
Your jersey was in 24 bit instead of 32 bit. Have fixed it for future races but missed it there. Not sure why Bar had the same or maybe similar looking as well?
Its my mistake, Bar has the correct Jersey in the Down Under Classic, which presumably was reported after you fixed my incorrect jerseys. Sorry!
John St Ledger in Team Bunzl-Centrica and Team U25
Red Bull Driver in RFactor
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 02-11-2021 16:46
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4669
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Positive things first:
- No KoM today, so Bissegger holds the jersey for another day. (By the way: would it be possible to upload the profiles including intermediate sprints and KoMs to the profiles thread? They obviously exist, as the report includes them, but I don't know the amount of work needed to do this...)
And that's it, unfortunately. The entire team was completely invisible, no breakaway attempts, and no serious participation in the sprint. I think I'll have to change my mind about PCM 20 still liking Reinhardt. When I look at other guys getting massive points, I'm already starting to get frustrated. On the other hand, if they can score well, there's still some hope Reinhardt will start scoring as well sooner or later.
Manninen is still a cheat, no idea why the game loves him so much more than anyone else. Congrats on that successful gamble, Nemo!
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 02-11-2021 16:55
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World Champion
Posts: 12986
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baseballlover312 wrote:
However, yeah, the sprint AI really isn't better. I've really struggled to understand why the game picks certain guys like Manninen and Holloway to be not only better, but smarter, than statistically stronger guys like Ewan. It's all kind of a weird hodge podge, but the fact that Manninen's success has so far perservered despite a game change makes me think it must be more than a true lottery, right?
I think it partly has to do with what TMM suggests about sprint trains, and that Manninen and Holloway have better RES so they can sprint longer. I think all AI sprinters go too early and run out of red (and thus a lot of their speed 100m or less from the line, but with higher RES, the Manninen and Holloways come from behind and surge past the "top guys" in the final meters. If you play PCM 18+ its almost harder to lose a sprint than it is to win, because all you have to do is set up a train and time your sprint correctly.
Happy with what Liu did today. A few more Top 10's and this race will be a success to me.
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 02-11-2021 17:42
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Directeur Sportif
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I'd also like to believe it's because of how teams set up their trains, but only time will tell I guess whether other setups may have the keys to the kingdom.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 02-11-2021 18:43
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World Champion
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valverde321 wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
However, yeah, the sprint AI really isn't better. I've really struggled to understand why the game picks certain guys like Manninen and Holloway to be not only better, but smarter, than statistically stronger guys like Ewan. It's all kind of a weird hodge podge, but the fact that Manninen's success has so far perservered despite a game change makes me think it must be more than a true lottery, right?
I think it partly has to do with what TMM suggests about sprint trains, and that Manninen and Holloway have better RES so they can sprint longer. I think all AI sprinters go too early and run out of red (and thus a lot of their speed 100m or less from the line, but with higher RES, the Manninen and Holloways come from behind and surge past the "top guys" in the final meters. If you play PCM 18+ its almost harder to lose a sprint than it is to win, because all you have to do is set up a train and time your sprint correctly.
Happy with what Liu did today. A few more Top 10's and this race will be a success to me.
I wish high flat and res would be the key to success, but looking at Bonifazio I doubt that's the case 
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| knockout |
Posted on 02-11-2021 19:32
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7735
Joined: 21-12-2010
PCM$: 400.00
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Fabianski wrote:
Positive things first:
- No KoM today, so Bissegger holds the jersey for another day. (By the way: would it be possible to upload the profiles including intermediate sprints and KoMs to the profiles thread? They obviously exist, as the report includes them, but I don't know the amount of work needed to do this...)
I second this. Doesnt need to be the profiles thread but getting them in the previews would be nice |
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| maxime86 |
Posted on 02-11-2021 20:29
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2950
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1000% the worst possible start to the season with MVS in terms of future hopes with PCM AI this year
maybe the hill stages will be better? Maybe Manninen is just the goat? I'm sure MVS won't be like this all season?
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| quadsas |
Posted on 02-11-2021 22:17
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2518
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More points for Big Dong, can't complain. Only question is whether DUC was an outlier and Halvorsen will be constantly in contention for Top 3s
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 02-11-2021 23:19
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 3262
Joined: 02-11-2010
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I think the reason MvS doesn't sprint is the game thinks he is a GC guy and they never sprint on flat stages. The same reason high prologue guys didn't sprint in races with an epilogue. I think there are some fixes for his we could do for next season.
The sample is small to make judgements about sprint AI but agree it isn't good. I think it was shown, last year, that over the whole season the best sprinters score more points so hopefully that is still true.
Man Game: McCormick Pro Cycling |
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| ember |
Posted on 03-11-2021 05:56
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Team Leader
Posts: 6849
Joined: 27-03-2008
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Hopefully that was our only quiet day in this race! If not, I'll start questioning why we made the trip all the way to Australia.
Please try for breakaways, team |
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 03-11-2021 06:36
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Directeur Sportif
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11th is fine I guess in this field, just need to keep it together and stay with the front group.
Congrats to Nemo again 
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| DarkWolf |
Posted on 03-11-2021 08:20
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1025
Joined: 21-09-2020
PCM$: 700.00
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Congratulations, Nemolito! Manninen is on fire!
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| whitejersey |
Posted on 03-11-2021 10:34
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2905
Joined: 07-08-2011
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Massive win from Gesbert, congrats SF!
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 03-11-2021 11:52
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3367
Joined: 20-04-2020
PCM$: 425.00
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Ooh, nice win for Gesbet indeed, congratulations!
Happy to see youngster Nolasco in the break, and to see Manninen survive. Although he is not looking too good in the hills (which was to be expected), he takes some extra classification points now, nice. Good to see Gesbert take most of the bonus seconds as well I guess, in case the other hilly stage(s) are not as selective as the puncheur teams hope they will be.
As tomorrow's stage is rated flat, there is hope for Manninen to be positioned quite well. Nevertheless, won't be too dramatic if he loses his jersey, I just hope he can 'kind of' hold on and take some GC points home as well
Thanks for the report, roturn!
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 03-11-2021 12:25
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
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Well, no time lost on what could have been a tricky finish. Could have gone either way with that gap, so I'll settle for a status quo. In theory Willunga Hill should be better for De Plus, but I don't 100% like tomorrow's stage either.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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