|
Myths and Misinformation
|
| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 01-02-2013 20:05
|
World Champion
Posts: 11971
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
cunego59 wrote:
Did the same thing, Official Release DB (since the PCMDaily has only top equipment), TTT of the Giro. Omega Pharma. Simulated with top time trialing gear (50 TT) and and with the worst (20 TT), three times each. The result: I won every time, between 1 and 5 seconds of advance to the second team. The five seconds advance with bad equipment. So to me it does't seem like the equipment has any effect at all.
why are you comparing the time against the number two finisher and not with eachother
|
| |
|
|
| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 01-02-2013 20:11
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
CosmicOsmo wrote:
well smarty pants it must matter, because on "extreme" mode i ran that test 10 times (not 3) and got very different results. the 10 runs without TT gear put the team in dead last place. go try it yourself...
You know, for someone who still hasn't really proven pretty much none of his points in this thread you do sound a little bit arrogant. "Smarty pants", "realize your wrong", etc etc.. I assume you're not considering the possibility that you might be wrong as well?
As Jesleyh said, the difficult shouldn't matter - all that changes between Normal and Extreme is that in Normal, the AI has the stats you see; in Extreme, the AI has a +5% bonus on their stats to what you see. There's no gameplay or any other sort of change. So theorically, no, it shouldn't make a difference.
|
| |
|
|
| Jesleyh |
Posted on 01-02-2013 20:13
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
CosmicOsmo wrote:
Jesleyh wrote:
@Cosmic That doesn't matter, as long aa he doesn't change it between the tests 
well smarty pants it must matter, because on "extreme" mode i ran that test 10 times (not 3) and got very different results. the 10 runs without TT gear put the team in dead last place. go try it yourself...
Sorry, didn't meant to be a smartypants, but theoretically it shouldn't be important, since the difficulty level affect the stats from the AI compared to the user(on extreme Ai stat is 105% of Player stats I think)
So it shouldn't make the difference theoretically if you stick to extreme(or stick to hard or something else  )
But I think I understand, you compare your extreme results with your result on another difficulty. You shouldn't do that, since that indeed affects your position conpared with the AI
Edit: Luigi was faster than me 
Edited by Jesleyh on 01-02-2013 20:14
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
|
| |
|
|
| tellico |
Posted on 01-02-2013 20:54
|
Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
lluuiiggii wrote:
You know, for someone who still hasn't really proven pretty much none of his points in this thread you do sound a little bit arrogant. "Smarty pants", "realize your wrong", etc etc.. I assume you're not considering the possibility that you might be wrong as well?
Agree. I dont understand this self-confidence. |
| |
|
|
| NTTHRASH |
Posted on 01-02-2013 23:35
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3192
Joined: 09-09-2012
PCM$: 3540.00
|
CosmicOsmo wrote:
NTTHRASH wrote:
0.5 star things=-0.35 upon stat
1 star=-0.3
1.5=-0.25
2=-0.2
2.5=-0.15
this is the kind of info we really need so thank you. however....
are you getting this info from the "armada" section of the game or is this some code you found?
we are talking about general career mode here, not armada.
Code, and I edited values in certain databases so that the values listed above are seperate.
"America. Show a nipple on television and the whole country goes ape-shit." -DubbelDekker
|
| |
|
|
| CosmicOsmo |
Posted on 02-02-2013 09:40
|
Under 23
Posts: 90
Joined: 17-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Jesleyh wrote:
CosmicOsmo wrote:
Jesleyh wrote:
@Cosmic That doesn't matter, as long aa he doesn't change it between the tests
well smarty pants it must matter, because on "extreme" mode i ran that test 10 times (not 3) and got very different results. the 10 runs without TT gear put the team in dead last place. go try it yourself...
Sorry, didn't meant to be a smartypants, but theoretically it shouldn't be important, since the difficulty level affect the stats from the AI compared to the user(on extreme Ai stat is 105% of Player stats I think)
So it shouldn't make the difference theoretically if you stick to extreme(or stick to hard or something else )
But I think I understand, you compare your extreme results with your result on another difficulty. You shouldn't do that, since that indeed affects your position conpared with the AI
Edit: Luigi was faster than me
no your wrong thats not it at all. i play only extreme. i havent had the game on hard since the day i got it. all of the tests ive run have been on extreme. dont you think it would be VERY silly otherwise? clearly you didnt read my post correctly.
if i sound arrogant its because i am, and because im right. luigi posting screens means nothing to me. ive run the tests and i know the results.
i just ran 10 more TT tests. set all riders to baseline 70. gave 4 riders TT gear and 4 riders none. 10 out of 10 times the riders with TT gear placed higher than those without and 6 out of those 10 times, my riders with no TT gear came in the final 4 positions.
look i dont care if you guys keep thinking what you do, im just trying to help and if you dont want that help, then please by all means go play the game thinking gear doesnt matter, i dont really care
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
|
| |
|
|
| Jesleyh |
Posted on 02-02-2013 09:46
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
CosmicOsmo wrote:
no your wrong thats not it at all. i play only extreme. i havent had the game on hard since the day i got it. all of the tests ive run have been on extreme. dont you think it would be VERY silly otherwise? clearly you didnt read my post correctly.
if i sound arrogant its because i am, and because im right. luigi posting screens means nothing to me. ive run the tests and i know the results.
i just ran 10 more TT tests. set all riders to baseline 70. gave 4 riders TT gear and 4 riders none. 10 out of 10 times the riders with TT gear placed higher than those without and 6 out of those 10 times, my riders with no TT gear came in the final 4 positions.
look i dont care if you guys keep thinking what you do, im just trying to help and if you dont want that help, then please by all means go play the game thinking gear doesnt matter, i dont really care
But do you play it in 3D or simulated?
Edited by Jesleyh on 02-02-2013 09:46
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 14:41
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| CosmicOsmo |
Posted on 02-02-2013 09:50
|
Under 23
Posts: 90
Joined: 17-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
all the TT tests ive done have been quick SIM as thats the only way i assume people play TTs...
i never "detail sim" anything and i never quick sim road races
i thought i made that point clear. obviously all my other testing has been 3D
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
|
| |
|
|
| Jesleyh |
Posted on 02-02-2013 09:55
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
CosmicOsmo wrote:
all the TT tests ive done have been quick SIM as thats the only way i assume people play TTs...
i never "detail sim" anything and i never quick sim road races
i thought i made that point clear. obviously all my other testing has been 3D
Well, I'm not sure of it, but it might be it. I think most of the people actually 3D the TTs(At least I do). But I noticed some other things that changes when you simulate instead of 3D race. Like the form seems way more important while simulating.(I'm not saying that your testing result have anything to do with form, I just mean that it's possible that there are differences between simulating and 3D) What I mean to say is that it's possible that equipment has effect at simulation, but none on 3D.
And since the others did the testing in 3D, and you did in quick sim, I think that there is a possiblity that you're both right.
Need someone to confirm this for me though.
I just wonder why you did the TT test in simulation and the others in 3D racing..
Edit: Actually, I just saw that Cruetrue said that in this topic too...
You didn't answer it, so I guess you didn't read it... 
Edited by Jesleyh on 02-02-2013 09:58
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
|
| |
|
|
| dren |
Posted on 02-02-2013 10:01
|
Under 23
Posts: 78
Joined: 13-09-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
quick sim uses a different engine than 3d so it will give contradictory results |
| |
|
|
| Jesleyh |
Posted on 02-02-2013 10:03
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
dren wrote:
quick sim uses a different engine than 3d so it will give contradictory results
Exactly, that's what I mean
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
|
| |
|
|
| CosmicOsmo |
Posted on 02-02-2013 10:08
|
Under 23
Posts: 90
Joined: 17-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
CosmicOsmo wrote:
as for the equipment.... go run 10 TTT. with TT gear and without. run them as quick sims if you want it doesnt matter for a TT. youll see the team with no TT gear comes dead last everytime.
i could have been clearer, ill give you that! anyway no hard feelings mate were just talking about a game, but im an argumentative person so its easy for me to get carried away...
i always do TTs as quick sim because playing them 3D is super boring for me and i always felt the results were pretty accurate... not like simming road races and getting 30 min breaks going all the way to the end hehe...
but yea i kinda assumed that was standard practice. plus any...strategy i guess...you can use in 3Ding a TT is formulaic so its like once you know how to do it its just repetition so i dont bother.
anyone someone here said they found code for it, and not just in armada so lets see where that thread takes us... i am getting VERY drastic results with TT gear though. like i said before its the difference between winning and taking last place. i have anecdotal evidence that the flat gear helps while 3D simming but i havent tested that outside just playing around.
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
|
| |
|
|
| Jesleyh |
Posted on 02-02-2013 10:13
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
CosmicOsmo wrote:
CosmicOsmo wrote:
as for the equipment.... go run 10 TTT. with TT gear and without. run them as quick sims if you want it doesnt matter for a TT. youll see the team with no TT gear comes dead last everytime.
i could have been clearer, ill give you that! anyway no hard feelings mate were just talking about a game, but im an argumentative person so its easy for me to get carried away...
i always do TTs as quick sim because playing them 3D is super boring for me and i always felt the results were pretty accurate... not like simming road races and getting 30 min breaks going all the way to the end hehe...
but yea i kinda assumed that was standard practice. plus any...strategy i guess...you can use in 3Ding a TT is formulaic so its like once you know how to do it its just repetition so i dont bother.
anyone someone here said they found code for it, and not just in armada so lets see where that thread takes us... i am getting VERY drastic results with TT gear though. like i said before its the difference between winning and taking last place. i have anecdotal evidence that the flat gear helps while 3D simming but i havent tested that outside just playing around.
Well, you're right, you indeed said that you could run it as quick sim, but you didn't say that you did. And you were wrong with It doesn't matter for a TT 
Well, indeed no hard feelings . And that the results are that drastic, is exactly why I'm happy that I've got the PCMDaily Expansion Pack, since all the equipment stars are the same there(with real equipment of course )
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
|
| |
|
|
| cunego59 |
Posted on 02-02-2013 10:39
|
Team Manager
Posts: 6508
Joined: 14-09-2008
PCM$: 1090.00
|
CosmicOsmo wrote:
cunego59 wrote:
Did the same thing, Official Release DB (since the PCMDaily has only top equipment), TTT of the Giro. Omega Pharma. Simulated with top time trialing gear (50 TT) and and with the worst (20 TT), three times each. The result: I won every time, between 1 and 5 seconds of advance to the second team. The five seconds advance with bad equipment. So to me it does't seem like the equipment has any effect at all.
what difficulty level are you playing on?
Extreme, just like you.
CosmicOsmo wrote:
Jesleyh wrote:
@Cosmic That doesn't matter, as long aa he doesn't change it between the tests
well smarty pants it must matter, because on "extreme" mode i ran that test 10 times (not 3) and got very different results. the 10 runs without TT gear put the team in dead last place. go try it yourself...
Well, what shall I tell you? I did the exact same thing, on extreme, on quick sim (sure, I didn't set every rider on 70, but with the drastic results you claim that should happen, I don't think that matters). And as I said above, the results didn't change at all. With or without gear, everytime my team won. Alright, you did 10 tests, I did 6, but still - I can't reproduce your clear, evident results that equipment matters. Can you explain that? If not, how can you be so sure that you're right and I'm wrong? I know you say you don't care but maybe that should make you think.
Oh and don't get me wrong, I appreciate you help, the tests you do, I really do. But you might want to get off your high horse for a moment when confronted with contradictory results
|
| |
|
|
| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 02-02-2013 15:16
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
People - testing in quick sim? Testing against the AI? Testing inside a road race peloton? That's not how a test should go if you want trustable results!
Look at the tests I've done in page 1. That's how sobrano did his tests, and I believe many others too. All testing riders should be from your team, isolated/without influence from each other and should be doing the exact same action. Your test should compare them. And I mean doing the exact same thing really - try a 3D TT test, with all riders in your team with the same stats, etc. Don't touch their effort bar - leave the button that makes the AI calculate the effort automatically. You'll notice there might be more than a minute of a gap in a 20 km TT!
Here's how equipment testing in a TT should be done: first, reduce a race only to your team, so that your riders go right one after the other and there's no wind change effect or anything like that. Make sure all riders in your team have the same stats, but different equipment. As soon as they are off the gate, change their effort to 65, 70 or whatever you find fitting to the lenght of the course. Everyone on the same effort of course. See the results.
For the RR, it would be the same as my endurance and resistance tests in the 1st page. If you do it inside the peloton, there's the position in the peloton where riders save more or less energy; there's the wind reaching the riders with different strenght depending on where they are located. Makes little sense to do in a peloton.
@Cosmic: I don't think we ever mentioned we were considering quick sim. As far as I know, most people also 3D TT races. Quick sim is a very different thing to 3D, and it might be possible that equipment has an effect there.
CrueTrue wrote:
CosmicOsmo wrote:
as for the equipment.... go run 10 TTT. with TT gear and without. run them as quick sims if you want it doesnt matter for a TT. youll see the team with no TT gear comes dead last everytime.
Now try in 3D mode. No effect.
Lastly:
CosmicOsmo wrote:
if i sound arrogant its because i am, and because im right. luigi posting screens means nothing to me. ive run the tests and i know the results.
Oh, good to know that my actual documentation of properly run tests which match with 99% of tests done by other people mean nothing because your results were not the same. I mean, the odds that you are the one right and we've done it all wrong for years are much bigger, right?
|
| |
|
|
| CosmicOsmo |
Posted on 11-02-2013 01:00
|
Under 23
Posts: 90
Joined: 17-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
lluuiiggii wrote:
Oh, good to know that my actual documentation of properly run tests which match with 99% of tests done by other people mean nothing because your results were not the same. I mean, the odds that you are the one right and we've done it all wrong for years are much bigger, right?
actual documentation? hardly. louigi youve spent too much time on these forums having people kiss your ass. screens showing relative rider position dont mean much. all my data comes from actual speed and heartrate.
after re doing my equipment tests several times and in 3D mode i can conclude the following:
each star of flat ability a piece of equipment grants provides a saving of .5hb/m while riding on flat ground, alone and in 3d mode. this test is easily replicated by the previously mentioned methods of isolating external influences and daily form. take any rider (stats dont matter) and ride along at a set dot. do this on perfectly flat ground (i like the champs myself). then increase the flat by one star each time you go. youll see that a total savings of up to 12hb/m can be gained.
equipment does matter. and dont forget our friend found this code
NTTHRASH wrote:
0.5 star things=-0.35 upon stat
1 star=-0.3
1.5=-0.25
2=-0.2
2.5=-0.15
Edited by CosmicOsmo on 11-02-2013 01:04
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
|
| |
|
|
| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 11-02-2013 03:28
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
CosmicOsmo wrote:
actual documentation? hardly. louigi youve spent too much time on these forums having people kiss your ass.
I've stopped reading here, I give up on you. I guess I should think more next time before I spend months of my life basically trying to make other people game's better. Especially the PCMdaily DB, it can really take a hell lot of time and hard work. And then to come to the forum and read something like this.. it's very respectful from your part, given that at no time nobody insulted you or anything like that. But post after you post you kept acting like you were master of the truth and stuff like that. Anyway, I can't bother writing any more lines or replying to anything that you wrote. I'll try to look for something more useful to do with my life. Good day sir.
|
| |
|
|
| CosmicOsmo |
Posted on 11-02-2013 06:10
|
Under 23
Posts: 90
Joined: 17-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
this is the point where louigi admits he might not be the god of pcm he thought he was....
as soon as hes confronted with a difference of opinion its all "im taking my ball and going home"
thats cool man! peace out! have fun being wrong. ill keep winning every race i enter on extreme mode...i guess i just dont understand the game like you....hehehe
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
|
| |
|
|
| Jesleyh |
Posted on 11-02-2013 06:29
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Come on, stop CosmicOsmo.
There is no reason to threat Luigi like this, he's the most helpful member of this forum, and beside that, he's probably right. Why do you have to insult everyone?!
And there's no reason to insult him in multiple topics(in the fatique topic too)
And I definitely disagree with the 'taking my ball and going home' thing. You should read this topic again mate
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
|
| |
|
|
| CosmicOsmo |
Posted on 11-02-2013 06:42
|
Under 23
Posts: 90
Joined: 17-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
hey he started it in the fatigue thread! going out of his way to insult me there.
this is why there is so much misinformation btw, because you just take someones word for it because theyve posted a few thousand times. look go on believing him all you want i dont mind. with my new understanding of the game ive pretty much run out of races to play so i guess its better to get it wrong and still have a challenge! at the moment im wondering what else to do with game... its just too easy...
anyway, hes not right, hes dead wrong. about alot. yea equipment does nothing...totally...thats why its coded in the game and saves you effort...cause it does nothing hahahaha sure ...
top 10 of all time in no particular order, not including the cannibal cause hes automatically #1:
-Gemininani -Nencini -Anquetil -Coppi
-Kelly -Hinault -Zabel -Bettini -Rebellin -Magni
..and honorable mention to Tom Simpson whos career was cut short.
Top 5 noobs most likely to tear it up this season:
-Phinney -Moser -TJ -Guardini -DURBO!
|
| |
|
