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Mountains & Results
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| staviros |
Posted on 28-12-2012 12:28
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Junior Rider
Posts: 42
Joined: 09-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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juszta wrote:
Normal difficulity
Sky climbing squad
Tour stage 12
Wiggins leader at 95 Fitness, Froome at 91 Fitness
Nordhaug protects Wiggins from the start
Siutsou protects Froome from the start
Knees is in charge of controlling the pace for the first mountain
Make sure to push the tempo in the downhill section, so the breakaway doesn't get too much space to work with (I only gave them 3 mins in the first mountain).
Second mountain, higher speed for the peloton by same-old Knees with the help of Nordhaug.
Nibali and Gesink lose contact on the penultimate climb, but they manage to get back.
Last climb: The riders, who protected Froome and Wiggo go to the front to catch the BotD and tire out the favourites. (give them the energy bars)
12 km to go: The former riders are now dead. Uran and Henao to defend Froome and Wiggo. Porte and Rogers to the front.
10km to go: Favourites attack: Uran and Henao to the front, Froome def Wiggo.
8 km to go: Conta attacks. Wiggo on dot deffed by Froome
3 km to go: Andy is still in the lead, gotta push hard now with Wiggins. Froome is almost dead, but Wiggins is still doing alright.
Sprint: We catch Andy, but he outsprints us. Andy gets 1st, Conta second, Wiggo 3rd, Froome 7th. No time-gaps. It's pretty good considering Andy and Conta both have +2 Mountain on Wiggins
@juszta: what tempo did you set on the climbs??? |
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| juszta |
Posted on 28-12-2012 12:35
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Protected Rider
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First one: 50-60 -> just so the break does not get a huge gap
Second climb: 60-65, still by Knees
Last climb: Chaotic, this is where the experience comes into play. I messed it up too, Wiggins had to waste too much energy on his own to catch Andy. You just have to get used to this tactic to work out the numbers.
Edited by juszta on 28-12-2012 12:35
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| staviros |
Posted on 28-12-2012 18:13
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Junior Rider
Posts: 42
Joined: 09-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Juszta. Interesting you used one of the team to keep the pace of the peleton up...i was using five guys.
i'll try this tonight.
The last climb has been a bit of a mess every time ive run the test.
maybe i'm not playing on the latest version...is there a way to check which version of the game i'm running? i'm sure i've patched it to ver1.4 |
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 28-12-2012 22:02
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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If you want to check, find the PCM.exe file (located in Program Files/Cyanide/PCM12), right click on it -> properties -> details, then there should be "version" which should say 1.4.0.0.
The directory will change if you have the Steam version or installed somewhere else, but either way the PCM.exe file is located in the main PCM folder.
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| staviros |
Posted on 29-12-2012 01:36
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Junior Rider
Posts: 42
Joined: 09-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Checked 1.4 installed. Thanks. |
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| staviros |
Posted on 30-12-2012 09:09
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Junior Rider
Posts: 42
Joined: 09-08-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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finally i've found a way to make it work. I haven't been aggressive enough with my final attack.
but ive also found that setting a higher pace early, on the first climb, thins the peleton numbers right down.
so one rider out front on 70 -75 on first climb, same second climb, then final climb i set a 84% pace at the front with wiggins protected by froome.
i then get froome to eat his gel, and then wiggins shortly thereafter. Once froomes gel kicks in, i stop the team setting the pace up front, set froome to 99% protect, set wiggins to 88% on the dot. Froome burns up and by that point wiggins gel has kicked in and he can maintain the attack....
used this tactic in my career and was winning by over a minute in the mountains.
job done thanks for the help guys! |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 30-12-2012 09:25
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Great that you finally found a solution.
Spoiler but does Froome eat his gel? Not really healthy I guess 
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| juszta |
Posted on 30-12-2012 09:28
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Protected Rider
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Nice, that's why it's always good to experiment with different methods! 
Setting the pace quite high early is a two-edged sword, since it can drop some of the competition, but also makes your team more tired. So it's not always the best, but it can work on numerous occasions  |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 09:58
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 30-12-2012 09:47
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World Champion
Posts: 10121
Joined: 01-05-2010
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It doesn't matter what percentage you set Froome at when protecting though. He'll do the same job regardless of whether his effort bar is on 5% or 99%.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 30-12-2012 09:47
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
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Glad you worked it out |
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| SweatyViking |
Posted on 30-12-2012 11:53
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Anyone else having a problem with too large groups on hilly/mountain stages? |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 30-12-2012 12:07
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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No, normally the patch should've fixed that. Installed all packs?
It could also be that the RES stats are too high, in PCM 2012, res stats should be much lower than in 2011. |
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| tsmoha |
Posted on 30-12-2012 16:33
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11819
Joined: 19-07-2010
PCM$: 300.00
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A bit off-topic, but it still belongs to mountains
Of which importance is the Timetrial-skill within a mountain-timetrial? I remember in PCM11, the Climbing-stat was way more important there. But does anyone know, if the TT-stat has still an influence on a tough MTT?
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| Mithrillian |
Posted on 30-12-2012 16:40
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Domestique
Posts: 433
Joined: 05-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Hey guys,
I am starting to get interested in moving up the difficulty ladder.
I am at all confident with the tactics of cycling and have been playing on easy all the time.
When I saw this thread I thought hey let's try out this technique. I got 3:00 off the nr 2. and feel like I should move up the ladder now.
Do you guys know a good way to train your mountaining skills? Like does doing individual stages help?
''The thing I love about PCM is that no other game requires a guide where the sentence "Acceleration does not mean acceleration" is used.'' - cactus-jack |
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 30-12-2012 16:53
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15274
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Yes, of course that helps. Mountain stages are most of the time won by experience. With experience you know when to attack, who you want to protect who, and what dot you want to use. So just play many mountain stages, doesn't really matter if it's Career or stage mode. Of course, you have more control on the form etc. in Career, which makes it easier sometimes(and sometimes harder)
Moving up to Normal shouldn't be that hard. Easy is really easy
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Mithrillian |
Posted on 30-12-2012 20:55
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Domestique
Posts: 433
Joined: 05-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Wouldn't the previous race days in a grand tour weigh heavily on a days performance in the mountIans? Then a lonely stage might not accurately emulate a grand tour mountain stage
''The thing I love about PCM is that no other game requires a guide where the sentence "Acceleration does not mean acceleration" is used.'' - cactus-jack
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| juszta |
Posted on 30-12-2012 21:02
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1175
Joined: 24-07-2012
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Well, only experience helps. I'd suggest choosing a team and playing a career. This way you practice everything: the management part, the planning part and of course the playing part. All of these can be improved by.... wait for it .... getting experience! |
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| Mithrillian |
Posted on 30-12-2012 21:13
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Domestique
Posts: 433
Joined: 05-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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juszta wrote:
Well, only experience helps. I'd suggest choosing a team and playing a career. This way you practice everything: the management part, the planning part and of course the playing part. All of these can be improved by.... wait for it .... getting experience!
I just want to practice climbing. And I prefer bot to wait 90 calendar days for a decent stage..
''The thing I love about PCM is that no other game requires a guide where the sentence "Acceleration does not mean acceleration" is used.'' - cactus-jack
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| Mithrillian |
Posted on 30-12-2012 21:13
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Domestique
Posts: 433
Joined: 05-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Blast it touchscreen!
Edited by Mithrillian on 30-12-2012 21:14
''The thing I love about PCM is that no other game requires a guide where the sentence "Acceleration does not mean acceleration" is used.'' - cactus-jack
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| eple |
Posted on 02-01-2013 08:22
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Stagiare
Posts: 173
Joined: 17-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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I've been dropping stronger riders lately as I've started to get to know my riders and getting better at tactics and using the strength of the team. It really is great seeing it pay off. In example I won the Giro with Tejay as my captain and Nibali, Pinot and Kreuziger as the main favorites (78 vs 82 and 80 in mountain). Nibali was close to beating me with his constant attacking on at end of climbs and his high downhill skill, but my tactics saved me I think. After the last time trial I only had 4 seconds on Nibali, but it was the sweetest 4 seconds ever!
In the vuelta I got 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 9th place. With Mollema, Tejay , Uran, Machado and T.Martin respectibly. Mollema and Tejay had more than 15minutes on the other riders at the end. It wasn't weak riders either, Valverde, F.Schleck, Pinot amongst others. Maybe they were not fit though.
In the Tour it didn't go so well with only 6th and 9th place, but I didn't expect to get a wildcard, so I had to change plans mid season and had Rui Costa and Taaramae at only around 90 fitness to ride with. (77 in mountain both, up against A. Schleck and Contador, etc)
To go more into details I've started paying attention to the heart rate recently. I'm beginning to think the heart rate makes a big difference and getting to know your rider's skills and how different levels of effort in relation to terrain effects the bpm and subsequently the energy levels. Because of this it might be hard to make general statements about how to use your riders as it depends on so many things.
In example I was leading the vuelta from the start with Mollema and Tejay and none of the other teams were helping out with setting the pace. Every stage, even in the sprinter stages, the peleton would just sit lazy and not do anything at 115-125 bpm and let the break away gain 10-20 minutes without breaking a sweat. This of course meant I had to set a quick pace to catch up and in doing so I noticed Tejay had a higher heart rate on flat terrain compared to Mollema and in a couple of stages I ended up tiring out Tejay too much before the climbs.
So I found the best thing to do was to let the break away settle and then set the pace from the start, rather than using too much energy catching up at the end. And after noticing the difference in heart rate I tried to set a pace where Tejay had roughly around 150 on flat and never higher than 160, and then upping the pace a bit on the climbs, where he had no problems. This made a big difference from him. In other words it might be a good idea to avoid pushing your captain chasing in break aways by setting a prolonged medium pace, as opposed to a lazy start and a crazy finish.If he can handle it, like Mollema could, then go for it. Just keep a close eye on the bpm.
I've also found that, atleast for me, 84% dot is the magic number. That will usually keep the bpm below, well... 184. It's great for longer efforts for strong riders(10-12 km on a climb, 20km on flat). 85-87% is great for shorter efforts to create gaps (5-7km on climb, maybe up to 87% initially to get a gap, 85-86% to let it grow and 84% once comfortable).
My tactics is something like this:
It depends on whether or not my captain is favorite/defending the leader jersey or if he's an outsider. If it's the latter then the main favorites team will do most of the work, so just hang back for the first two thirds of the race and enjoy them doing all the work. If it's the former I'll do something along these lines:
After the break away has settled (2-4minutes) I'll put my two weakest riders in the front on relay around 50-53%, making sure not to stress the captain (all others set to maintain at 70%). This will usually keep the break away at a comfortable distance and it's likely to increase slowly. It won't be so close that other riders will attack and the peleton goes all nuts and it wont' be so far away you can't catch them, especially if the last climbs are many, long or steep. I might increase the percentage to 57-59% if the break away is getting too much of a gap.
When approaching around 40-50km before the finish, or 3rd or 2nd climb i'll up it to 67-69% (remember these are weak riders so it won't stress the stronger riders much). Around this time the puncher/fighters start attacking I'll set a climber to relay on climbs, a fighter on flat or a puncher on downhill to relay around 70-75% (all climbers and captain on 84% maintain position). They will usually be caught immediately, or if they manage to get a gap they will be so drained of energy you'll easily catch them before the finish when you up the pace.
Usually the other favories will wait until they are closer but if someone important attacks I'll up the relayer to 82-83% and they will catch them almost immediately everytime. If not immediately then be patient and don't panic. Either the rider you are using is not strong enough and you must increase effort a little bit, and you'll catch up eventually. Just don't start attacking with you captain cos he will need that energy later.
Doing this and always using the team mates I'll keep my leader from making any extra effort. On the last climb I'll set a good climber to relay at around 78-80% (82% when favorites attack to close the gap, and captain at maintain 84-85%, or slightly higher if it starts flashing red). At maybe 7 km it's time for my leader to go on dot effort 86%, protected by a good climber. I try to time it so that he has a bit of punch left for the sprint if someone looks to catch up.
Note: I always counter other attacks with a team mate on high relay effort and I never use the attack or counter attack. I also never go above 87%. It drains them quickly without giving much effect. Maybe it's only valid because my riders are weaker but attacking only seems to be effective immediately before/during a downhill, or on flat with a rested rider in group of tired riders. I.e. on classics/puncher stages and cobbles I might use it. Dot effort at the right percentage is very effective. To me it seems 87% is the highest you should go. Any higher than that and they will drain too quickly as it will bring their heart rate into the 190s very quickly. They can stay close to forever at 150-160 bpm, at 170-180 both bars slowly drop. At 180-185 they can last long enough to give most other riders trouble keeping up. Higher than that and they drain too quickly in my opinion.
Edited by eple on 02-01-2013 08:40
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