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Your season so far
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 25-11-2010 22:32
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SotD wrote:
fenian_1234 wrote:I'll be pleased if getting goals is going to be richly rewarded - (and missing them punished) at the end of the season.
Also I hope that there will be taken into account how close you are to getting your goals, or by how much they are achieved...
Ex. Sam Bewley got 2nd in MSR, where the goal was a win.
Castaño got 5th in the Giro with goal was top 10.
Seems the goal overall is fairly contested, but as it is now it ads up to 1-1...
Remind me about that when the season ends, and Ill look into it when setting up the 2012 Budgets file
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| SotD |
Posted on 25-11-2010 22:34
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World Champion
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Will do 
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| Levi4life |
Posted on 26-11-2010 07:34
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SportingNonsense wrote:
SotD wrote:
fenian_1234 wrote:I'll be pleased if getting goals is going to be richly rewarded - (and missing them punished) at the end of the season.
Also I hope that there will be taken into account how close you are to getting your goals, or by how much they are achieved...
Ex. Sam Bewley got 2nd in MSR, where the goal was a win.
Castaño got 5th in the Giro with goal was top 10.
Seems the goal overall is fairly contested, but as it is now it ads up to 1-1...
Remind me about that when the season ends, and Ill look into it when setting up the 2012 Budgets file
I like that idea
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| Smowz |
Posted on 26-11-2010 08:45
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Team Leader
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Levi4life wrote:
SportingNonsense wrote:
SotD wrote:
fenian_1234 wrote:I'll be pleased if getting goals is going to be richly rewarded - (and missing them punished) at the end of the season.
Also I hope that there will be taken into account how close you are to getting your goals, or by how much they are achieved...
Ex. Sam Bewley got 2nd in MSR, where the goal was a win.
Castaño got 5th in the Giro with goal was top 10.
Seems the goal overall is fairly contested, but as it is now it ads up to 1-1...
Remind me about that when the season ends, and Ill look into it when setting up the 2012 Budgets file
I like that idea
SotD: Not sure I agree that Castano should get any extra for finishing 5th when the goal was a top 10? As far as the win goal is concerned, I see the point but surely if the goal is a win then anything but a win is a fail? You could get into an arguement about whether getting a podium is better than attacking and trying to win and ending up 5th say?
Anyway I thought in the current system goals were rewarded quite well and punished for failing them in equal measure. The bigger issue though is there is perhaps not enough advantage to having the extra money... I have a few ideas on that one |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 26-11-2010 09:09
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I agree that you shouldn't get bonus for doing better than your goal, if you underestimated your team then you shouldn't get a bonus, as far as just missing out goes, I feel that you should be rewarded for getting close.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| SotD |
Posted on 26-11-2010 10:34
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Smowz wrote:
SotD: Not sure I agree that Castano should get any extra for finishing 5th when the goal was a top 10? As far as the win goal is concerned, I see the point but surely if the goal is a win then anything but a win is a fail? You could get into an arguement about whether getting a podium is better than attacking and trying to win and ending up 5th say?
Anyway I thought in the current system goals were rewarded quite well and punished for failing them in equal measure. The bigger issue though is there is perhaps not enough advantage to having the extra money... I have a few ideas on that one
Well i get your point and I don't get your point. There was a "must pick a win goal" for all teams. Some teams have a fairly easy pick there, ex. Cunego winning the Giro, or some great TT'er winning a race based on that.
For a team with decent riders all over the line it's much harder to pick the right win. My team gets something like 5 stagewins over a season, so to pick any of them is a shot in the air.
I agree with you, that I shouldn't get more bonus from achieving 5th in the Giro when I set top 10, but it could be used as a decline of punishing me for not reaching the first goal by 1 place.
So ex.
5 goals.
Missing 2 goals by 7 places.
Achieving the 3 goals by 3 places.
That gives a negative of 4 on the combined goal.
I have negative 1 place in MSR and positive 5 places in the Giro, giving +4 on the combined goal.
Obviously it's a failure to not achieve the goal, but it's a much bigger failure to go for the Tour win, and ending up 7th GC than ending 2nd in the MSR...
I know there are several teams and riders missing their goals by very little, so perhaps that should be taken into account, as a bonus for the managers to pick achievable goals instead of managers who seem to pick randomly. Also adds up for the managers investing a good amount of time in the game, as prior to the ones just doing it because they have to...
I hope it makes a little bit of sense
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 26-11-2010 12:41
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I can see where you're coming from, and I kind of agree. However, I suspect it would be more fair to approach it from a "you did, or didn't achieve that goal by 1, 2, or 3 goal variables away".
For example. You didn't achieve MSR by 1 place, which is equivilent to 1 goal difference away (You either went for Win, Top 3, or Top 10). You didn't win it, but you did podium.
For the Giro, you went for Top 10. You achieved that, but you didn't achieve a Top 3. Therefore you don't gain any advantage over that choice. You just get the benefit of achieving a goal. If you'd podiumed, then you'd have been the next step up and gotten a positive. So by my reckoning, you're only -1 really, not +4.
Now if you'd gone for a Top 10, and won, then you'd have gained a +2.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk]  [/url] |
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| OlegTinkov |
Posted on 26-11-2010 13:29
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2666
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Totally off topic but don't know were to put it ->
Could someone test this stage, and check the roundabout about 20k to the finishline, it doesn't work @ my PCM09 (probably because of Cyclo Cross db)
Need to know if they work, otherwise I have to remove all roundabouts in all stages of the Tour of America 
Edited by OlegTinkov on 26-11-2010 13:30
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 26-11-2010 15:03
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Worked fine for me Oleg
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 26-11-2010 16:18
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Vespa were close to all our goals lasty year but missed out and ended up with a fairly crappy budget. Don't see why it should change at the end of the season - you miss your goal, you miss your goal.
You get extra at the start of the season for choosing a tough goal, so don't really see why you'd get a bonus then at the end of the season for nearly getting it.
If you tell me you'll finish first and I give you money to finish 1st, why would I be happy with you finishing 2nd or 3rd? |
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 26-11-2010 16:20
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I believe SotD's more making the point of if someone aims for a Top 10, and wins, then that'd be more pleasing to the sponsors.
To be honest, if we were doing this properly, I'd get a helluva lot more budget for being invited to the Giro, Tirreno, etc, etc and doing well in them. Therefore showing off my sponsors even more. 
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk] [/url] |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 23:51
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 26-11-2010 16:26
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Yes, I'd agree if you choose Top 10 and you win then the sponsors should be 'more' pleased.
On the other hand, missing a goal is missing a goal. I see the goal as the minimum accepted performance. Doesn't matter how close you are. Missing MSR is missing MSR.
I also love that idea about getting a bonus for riding the 'big' races. |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 26-11-2010 16:31
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Evidently I didnt read fully what SotD initially said. While I agree that just missing a goal is different from failing completely, I see no reason to split up how well youve achieved your successful goals.
Win a race when you had a Top 10 goal? Your reward is there already:
A) You passed the goal
B) More ranking points, which in turn can lead to more money based on team rankings position
But also, while there may be less of a penalty for just missing a goal, at the end of the day, the point of getting less money for failing goals is that you had already gained money from it at the start if the season - for targeting ambitious goals, and therefore boosting your budget for this season. You choose to take the risk then, to go for more money, accepting the harder goals, knowing that while achieving the goal would be brilliant for your team, but failing would have the opposite effect.
And CT teams rewards for riding big races is the XP opportunities, and enjoyment in seeing your guys do much better than soem PT teams in the race. It wouldnt really be fair to bring in budget gains - since not all CT teams have the opportunity to ride in a Grand Tour.
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 26-11-2010 16:34
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SportingNonsense wrote:And CT teams rewards for riding big races is the XP opportunities, and enjoyment in seeing your guys do much better than soem PT teams in the race.
True - really loved seeing Vespa in the Giro this season.  |
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 28-11-2010 18:39
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SportingNonsense wrote:
But also, while there may be less of a penalty for just missing a goal, at the end of the day, the point of getting less money for failing goals is that you had already gained money from it at the start if the season - for targeting ambitious goals, and therefore boosting your budget for this season. You choose to take the risk then, to go for more money, accepting the harder goals, knowing that while achieving the goal would be brilliant for your team, but failing would have the opposite effect.
Yeah, to keep an element of management we have to make some choices and assess risks.
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| SotD |
Posted on 28-11-2010 21:44
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SportingNonsense wrote:
You choose to take the risk then, to go for more money, accepting the harder goals, knowing that while achieving the goal would be brilliant for your team, but failing would have the opposite effect.
Not exactly true... I didn't have a choice, as I had to pick a win one race. My riders aren't the winning type, so it was a monster decision to make a win goal. And for many other teams that goal was also a 5% chance to achieve. So I think that missing out on just one spot is fairly well prepared. I could've taken "Win the Vuelta". That was probably my best option, but there are so many chances that Contador will crash or so, that a GT is a bad call imo. You see even Cunego was close to losing out, eventhough he won the previous 4 seasons and is the safest bet of all...
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 28-11-2010 22:40
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SotD wrote:
SportingNonsense wrote:
You choose to take the risk then, to go for more money, accepting the harder goals, knowing that while achieving the goal would be brilliant for your team, but failing would have the opposite effect.
Not exactly true... I didn't have a choice, as I had to pick a win one race. My riders aren't the winning type, so it was a monster decision to make a win goal. And for many other teams that goal was also a 5% chance to achieve. So I think that missing out on just one spot is fairly well prepared. I could've taken "Win the Vuelta". That was probably my best option, but there are so many chances that Contador will crash or so, that a GT is a bad call imo. You see even Cunego was close to losing out, eventhough he won the previous 4 seasons and is the safest bet of all...
Well, you didnt have to pick a monument, you could have gone for a lesser categorised race, which was my point there.
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| jack888 |
Posted on 30-11-2010 02:08
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I didn't expect much more from my team, hopefully we stay out of the bottom 5.
I've got loads to spend in the off season (i think), so i'll get another hilly sprinter to partner Impey and a decent GC rider. I should get enough cash if i cut my squad down to about 23-25. But at least i know i've got a good base team with the guys i bought this season.
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