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PCM.daily DB Stats discussion
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 23-07-2013 03:15
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Tour de France Champion
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admirschleck wrote:
And how big gaps Martin made to Betancur on Spring Classics? Not more than 5seconds on any of them (except LBL).
And what if every hilly stage came to end? Shouldn't Martin make attack,or with his "80" hill make a difference on them and win? And not a single hilly stage that he reached TOP20, btw. 
Name 1 Ardennes like stage this year where any selection that would bring a specialist out was made. And name a stage where Gilbert or Purito attacked and won a hilly stage, who both have better hill.
You are singling it out to Fleche, because you won't admit Liege was a race or something. Fleche would have been a pdium easy for Martin in itself if he didn't have bad positioning on the final.
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| alex-sonic |
Posted on 23-07-2013 11:06
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 303
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https://www.eurosp...tory.shtml
For the mountain discussion I read this morning and for those who speak french |
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| PhilipBusch |
Posted on 23-07-2013 11:43
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Junior Rider
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baseballlover312 wrote:
admirschleck wrote:
And how big gaps Martin made to Betancur on Spring Classics? Not more than 5seconds on any of them (except LBL).
And what if every hilly stage came to end? Shouldn't Martin make attack,or with his "80" hill make a difference on them and win? And not a single hilly stage that he reached TOP20, btw.
Name 1 Ardennes like stage this year where any selection that would bring a specialist out was made. And name a stage where Gilbert or Purito attacked and won a hilly stage, who both have better hill.
You are singling it out to Fleche, because you won't admit Liege was a race or something. Fleche would have been a pdium easy for Martin in itself if he didn't have bad positioning on the final.
Well, maybe if betancur had not attacked from far out he could have ended even better. And you can also make the difference by giving Martin higher endurance (even though betancur has good endurance too.) |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 23-07-2013 12:33
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
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PCM$: 300.00
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Finally some love for Kreuziger. 
He should be one of the strongest riders in the DB, after winning AGR and 5th in TdF with domestique role.
I would say 79Mou/79hill with high fighter stat and not so great REC.
But there was some nice discussion about mountain stat,i agree the last list of Fickman sums it up pretty nicely and realistic.
Sagan is still underrated in comparsion to other sprinters. 
In how many of your careers Sagan won the green jersey every year he likes to? Not a single time in few of my Tours, Cavendish or Greipel do all the time, because Sagan is barely in top5 in flat stages and breakaway steal him many points thanks to flawed gameplay.
In reality, he is top4 every pure flat stage and has won two green jerseys by some 100points margin, we need to reflect that in the game.
He deserves 80/84 imo (if Kittel is 83/82 f.e. and Cav,Greipel 82/82).
No sense riders like Demare or Goss should beat him in the game...
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 14:44
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 23-07-2013 12:43
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Tour de France Champion
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Agree, Sagan can take 80SP.
Also, I'd put Kittel & Cav both on 82/83SP, and then Greipel 1 lower. I think Greipel can definitely beat them, but that the 2 others are just a little bit above him.
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 23-07-2013 12:48
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Team Leader
Posts: 6690
Joined: 11-10-2010
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Agreeing about Sagan and Kreuziger.
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| aas169 |
Posted on 23-07-2013 12:50
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Free Agent
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I think Kittel's sprint stat should be 1 point above Cav and Greipel, but with lower backup stats, lower flat stat for example. And Cav should then also have higher secondary stats then Greipel |
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| fickman |
Posted on 23-07-2013 17:07
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Sprinter
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
I would say 79Mou/79hill with high fighter stat and not so great REC.
Dont u think ur been a little bit subjective because ur Kreuziger fan. I agree with u about MO but 79 Hill might be 1 point too much, dont forget how he won Amstel Gold Race. He was allowed to goo away and favorites only start chasing ultill it was too late then at La Flèche Wallonne when people was expecting to do a similar performance he was nowhere. I think we both know he isnt the fastest guy arround attacking, if he had stayed with the favorites in Amstel Gold Race he would had achive a top 10 but wouldnt have been able to won. Thats my opinion, ofcourse u dont have to agree with me |
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| atlanta |
Posted on 23-07-2013 21:51
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PhilipBusch wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
admirschleck wrote:
And how big gaps Martin made to Betancur on Spring Classics? Not more than 5seconds on any of them (except LBL).
And what if every hilly stage came to end? Shouldn't Martin make attack,or with his "80" hill make a difference on them and win? And not a single hilly stage that he reached TOP20, btw.
Name 1 Ardennes like stage this year where any selection that would bring a specialist out was made. And name a stage where Gilbert or Purito attacked and won a hilly stage, who both have better hill.
You are singling it out to Fleche, because you won't admit Liege was a race or something. Fleche would have been a pdium easy for Martin in itself if he didn't have bad positioning on the final.
Well, maybe if betancur had not attacked from far out he could have ended even better. And you can also make the difference by giving Martin higher endurance (even though betancur has good endurance too.)
This 100000000%
Betancur attacked from the bottom, the guy is as good as Martin ffs. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 23-07-2013 22:02
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
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atlanta wrote:
PhilipBusch wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
admirschleck wrote:
And how big gaps Martin made to Betancur on Spring Classics? Not more than 5seconds on any of them (except LBL).
And what if every hilly stage came to end? Shouldn't Martin make attack,or with his "80" hill make a difference on them and win? And not a single hilly stage that he reached TOP20, btw.
Name 1 Ardennes like stage this year where any selection that would bring a specialist out was made. And name a stage where Gilbert or Purito attacked and won a hilly stage, who both have better hill.
You are singling it out to Fleche, because you won't admit Liege was a race or something. Fleche would have been a pdium easy for Martin in itself if he didn't have bad positioning on the final.
Well, maybe if betancur had not attacked from far out he could have ended even better. And you can also make the difference by giving Martin higher endurance (even though betancur has good endurance too.)
This 100000000%
Betancur attacked from the bottom, the guy is as good as Martin ffs.
Betancur didn't attack at the bottom. He didn't respond at all on the final climb iirc. If you mean previously, then Martin obviously matched easily. Martin was able to bridge to Purito (potentially 81 hill) and blow him away.
Edited by baseballlover312 on 23-07-2013 22:03
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 23-07-2013 22:19
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Betancur went almost right after the start of the Mur (Fleche)
He also went way earlier as everybody else on Saint-Nicolas (lbl).
Martin and Betancur deserve the same hill stat but Martin should have +2 in endurance
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 24-07-2013 02:10
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Him going early is his problem. That's still no evidence that he is the same in hill as Martin. Martin still looked fresh in the final attack.
Martin made it to the chase and then made 2 huge efforts in the final km. And what you are telling me is that Betancur made 1 early and hung on to a chase group. Not the same. and 2 stamina points won't make that up.
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 24-07-2013 02:18
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And 1 HIL stat more will make him much better than few seconds. What about +1ACC point and +2 in END and that's all.
Turn off your Garmin/American biase and fanboy mode and then comment,please.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 24-07-2013 02:19
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
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admirschleck wrote:
And 1 HIL stat more will make him much better than few seconds. What about +1ACC point and +2 in END and that's all.
Turn off your Garmin/American biase and fanboy mode and then comment,please.
Turn off your disbelief for the truth and then comment.
1 hill point won't do jackshit for an Ardnenns classic in PCM except get a guy a win by a few seconds. Just like irl.
Edited by baseballlover312 on 24-07-2013 02:22
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 24-07-2013 02:22
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That was pretty bad arguement. No reason for me to hate any of these riders, so i am being only realistic. As you can see , most of other guys are sharing my opinion,so...
And yes, i prefer Betancur more than Martin, mostly because i always loved small explosive guys (Colombians f.e.)
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 24-07-2013 02:24
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Posts: 16429
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admirschleck wrote:
That was pretty bad arguement. No reason for me to hate any of these riders, so i am being only realistic. As you can see , most of other guys are sharing my opinion,so...
And yes, i prefer Betancur more than Martin, mostly because i always loved small explosive guys (Colombians f.e.)
That's not a bad argument. It's the truth. Do you need to do a test on what will happen in PCM?
And you just admitted bias too, when I didn't even frame you for it. Thanks for making your failing comments look even stupider.
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 24-07-2013 02:28
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Prefering isn't being fan of it. I just prefer him over Martin , as i said i don't have anything from Martin get +1 HIL or stay same, i'll anyway make him what i think he should get , when i download database.
How can you comment against all of these comments supporting me (supporting thruth and not-biased-comments) and even tells that my comments are stupid and fails? Firstly why insulting, and secondly why are you even trying,when you even mentioned that it is "Initiate Fanboy Attack"...?
No reason for deeper discussion, you can easily and clearly fuck off now.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 24-07-2013 02:30
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
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admirschleck wrote:
Prefering isn't being fan of it. I just prefer him over Martin , as i said i don't have anything from Martin get +1 HIL or stay same, i'll anyway make him what i think he should get , when i download database.
How can you comment against all of these comments supporting me (supporting thruth and not-biased-comments) and even tells that my comments are stupid and fails? Firstly why insulting, and secondly why are you even trying,when you even mentioned that it is "Initiate Fanboy Attack"...?
No reason for deeper discussion, you can easily and clearly fuck off now.
Well everyone knows my like of him, but the racing doesn't lie.
And I don't even know how to respond to your last sentence little bitch.
Edit: You know what. I take it all back. Dan Martin only won because Betancur let him. 77 for sure.
I can't even believe this. But okay. End it here. I'm not getting banned for this.
Edited by baseballlover312 on 24-07-2013 02:35
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 24-07-2013 02:39
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Martin can easily get 9 seconds (LBL, Betancur outsprinted him in Fleche W.) on Betancur with same HIL , if he is aiming on Ardennes (what he did this year).
Betancur was aiming for Giro (i think thats clear) so he wasn't in top form in Ardennes but pretty decent form. I just hope you'll get that you're not right.
If i can , i'd put all Adria Mobil and Meridiana Kamen riders on 85 , since i am their fan , but that's not possible.
Okay,stop it really now, don't want to enter some bad argue or something, just couldn't keep your fanboy mode. That's all , cheers.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 24-07-2013 02:44
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
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Martin wasn't outsprinted in Fleche. he gained like 10 places in the final straight, but had bad positioning.
But I refuse to get banned, which would probably if I argue with you, since most people are against me, if you know what I mean.
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