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23-11-2024 09:21
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Mafia X | u up? x
jseadog1
I truly think that Croatia was the doctor now because I am wondering why ryant wasn't saved at night. Who else would the doctor save? Is it a good idea for the doc to reveal if alive? Are we that desperate?

I agree with df_trek's analysis. Could bbl, knockout, and Marco be 3 of the mafia just playing together very efficiently right now? I'm not sure but I hope players are in agreement that one of these 3 have to go today.

ryant was one of the only secure players we had and now to me I am the only confirmed townie alive even though many still have their doubts about it.

We absolutely need to hear from the inactive players and they need to get more involved in the game at this point. I do not have the time to go through and see how many posts each player made in Day 2, but if you were in the lower 2-3 users, time to speak up and give an opinion.

1 - Marcovdw
1 - knockout

These are the votes so far. We have heard from bbl & df_trek. We need trekbmc, hillis, jaxika, Bikex, and quadsas to start talking. kandes will show up and give his points also but in my eyes he is a safe player so it is not as urgent for me to hear from him.

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knockout
baseballlover312 wrote:
Knockout is looking very bad to me right now. His poorly explained flip on Croatia, admittedly based on nothing but feeling, was peculiar enough. But take his points now, which are again uncharacteristically defensive and substanceless (a ton of "we should discuss this" without actual opinion from him this game). And if you take a look back on his day 2 posts, you'll notice that his most analytical ones were about Day 1 events that the town was mostly past. He was notably shallow on topics that led to his actual lynch vote. Seems like he was trying to say little to not incriminate himself, but write his usual analysis on unimportant things, to make it seem like he's normally contributing. I don't know if it makes him mafia, and as I said, my leads have been bad. But it's undoubtedly suspicious.

Also - where the hell if trekbmc and why will no one talk about it?


1. Analytical posts focussed on day 1: true and i dont see an issue with that. I think voting behaviour in contested lynch votings is much more valuable to analyze. If i do an analysis today it would likely focus a lot on day 2 voting behaviour and combine that with what i saw on day 1. having those additional assignment flip can be crucial to analyse the situation.
2. Defensive: take a look at yesterday mate. After already hammering townie waghlon on day 1 (i dont think this was a mistake unless looking at it with hindsight), i fucked up badly yesterday and i dont even really know how i talked myself into that. It was the stupidest I've ever looked in any of the mafia games and both croatia and ryant have called for my head so i am sure that people if in doubt will rather lynch me than an unknown.
3. Not giving my own opinions: Unlike others there is a lot of discussion points from me already to analyze my positions (along with questions like "would knockout defend a potential mafia member so much in the open" or "would he rather try to do it much more subtly"Wink. I think the town would benefit more from others talking instead of my loud mouth interfering or driving the discussion too much. I was planning to post a bunch of thoughts closer to the deadline where people might remember them better and so you can see other's thoughts on this day that were not influenced by me but if the general concensus is that you want my thoughts now and need those to evaluate me better / or would be open to discuss them (i didnt feel like my day 1 vote analysis did really spark a discussion) then i will share my detailed thoughts tomorrow (hopefully)

Trekbmc was inactive for a day and will be replaced tomorrow if that stays that way on this day. I hope that his replacement would be capable of giving new and fresh input. I would not recommend to lynch him today unless day 3 behaviour leads you towards that thought.
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df_Trek
Imo it's quite unlikely that all three bbl Marco and knockout are mafia, I tend to believe that at least a mafia member is between silent ones
 
jaxika
For me its clear that one of the Croatia-lynchers is mafia .. or two of them ... bit wich one? Smile

And dont forget, ryant voted hillis ...
 
quadsas
hillis was one of the last ones to vote for croatia, so it's certainly likely that him and marco are both mafia.

lynch marcovdw

obviously this lynch looks even better today with what transpired yesterday, so I'll be sticking with that unless I'm convinced otherwise
deez
 
quadsas
Also re: doctor talks, remember, mafia has a strongman, and they could've used it last night
deez
 
jseadog1
Guys, if trekbmc doesn't show up today wouldn't it be wise to lynch him? It is obviously a risk that he is with the town but if jandal cannot find a replacement we risk losing 2 townies in 1 day with the wrong lynch.

How sure are we about lynching Marco? I am willing to switch my vote from knockout if enough of you think I should.

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trekbmc
Hey guys, huge apologies for missing a bit, a few things happened irl and I just couldn't really focus on the game.

I understand that my absence makes me suspicious, but I can't really help it, it's 2 am here so I'm not going to type out a long post now, but I promise one in the morning (my time), that'll hopefully be helpful.



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hillis91
That was exactly not what we needed right now. I totally missed on Croatia then, but the way he played he just stuck out to me as my biggest mafia suspect. Also, the ryant vote on me and then he gets killed in the night makes this whole situation smell like a frame job on me. df_Trek has been trying to make me look wierd to the rest of the town the whole time. He now has my attention. jaxia pointing it out that ryant voted for me, which is fair since ryant did vote for me, but on which basis though? quadsas speaking out his ass right now, why would a vote on him by me make me look more mafia then all the others? I've been trying to stay away from the voting early, and me not even voting the first day was not and issue and when i vote im all of a sudden a mobster? Get out of here with that bs.

Furthermore, i'd like to hear what marco and trekbmc(!) before i even start to entertain putting a vote in.
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kandesbunzler26
Spoiler
(Note: I wrote this post on several occasions over the day, so please excuse if it isn‘t as pithy as I would like it to be.)


There are some things to talk about, so a little overview at the start:
1) What happened at the end of Day 2.
2) What happened at night.
3) What happened early Day 3.
4) Conclusions

1) What happened at the end of Day 2.
First of all an explanation for my behaving at the end of Day 2: I simply ran out of time. Because I didn‘t have any time to contribute my thoughts before I started writing my post at like 7:30 and just wrote as much and good as time allowed. I only saw the current developments after that and couldn‘t make my mind up and react in the (at least felt) 30-60 seconds until jandals end of day post. And if someone asks why this long post was written at the end of the day and not at the beginning of Day 3: Maybe it‘s a bit egocentric, but I thought myself a target for the nightkill (if it would not have been ryan), because most people seem to trust me being pro-town (or at least don‘t think I‘m a prime target for lynching).

On the actions of the other players:
The first three votes on Croatia were from marco (see above on my thoughts on that), jdog and bbl (still lasting from the beginning of the day).
marcos late vote on Croatia is the least indicating in my opinion, as he stated it was to rescue himself, which is totally understandable no matter of his alignment. So his vote doesn‘t make him either town nor mafia.
Could jdog and bbl please explain (again?) why they hold their vote up? Especially with bbl I had the feeling he had other candidates as well.

The other two votes were from knockout and hillis (who sealed the thing in hindsight).
knockout didn‘t do himself a favour with his vote on Croatia and he‘s still an enigma to me. Well-meaning townie going over the top (we‘ve seen lots of those the last games) or evil-minded mafia alluring the town to its ruin? I just don‘t know. But I tend to trust him less than in the last games, and maybe that‘s a sign as well.
hillis‘ action of course seems fishy in hindsight, but there‘s a real chance he won‘t be investigated deeply as there‘s a marco vs. knockout discussion raising up (see point 3) also).

ryan pointed at knockout in case he was nightkilled, but to be honest getting killed after that doesn‘t point at knockout in my opinion as it would be much too obvious (maybe a framejob on knockout?).

Spoiler

ryant wrote:
Hillis and particularly knockout are prime mafia reads for me - especially the latter with a early frame job on quadsas if I ultimately dont make it through the night...


2) What happened at night.
The nightkill on ryan was no risk (if taking the strongman) for he was agreed on pro-town. But there are two questions:
If there was no strongman involved, is the doctor dead (Croatia?) or did he save someone else. We won‘t know that until the doctor (if not Croatia) comes out (please don‘t do it yet!) or the end of the game.
But if there was the strongman involved, why use it on ryan? Sure he was pro-town, but was he that important? Or did the mafia use their possible last chance for the strongman to be of real use because they fear he could be lynched today (implying it would be someone strongly in danger like marco or knockout)? Again something we can‘t decide by now, but a point I would like your thoughts on as well.

3) What happened early Day 3.
The vote count at the moment:
knockout -> marco
jdog -> knockout (though signaled willingness to change to marco in #347)
quadsas -> marco

I don‘t think it‘s wise to get an early lynch-train going, it‘s a good opportunity for the mafia to either get rid of a townie cheaply or sacrifice a mafia player while the other mafiosi can hide in the train and the town loses precious Day-time to investigate and argue. But at the moment it seems like people feel no real pressure to discuss other options, which is only good for the mafia, which can lean back and wait until the end of the day. Plus the mafia seems to be okay with the targets of the activity, otherwise there wouldn‘t be much needed to center the discussion on other points (one vote for another play gets him into action). In either case it‘s bad for the town.

For your interest (but already outdated)
Spoiler
As to a trekbmc lynch, I don‘t see the benefits right now. If he‘s inactive a second Day he will only be modkilled if jandal has no replacement. (@jandal: Would you tell us if you had a replacement? And would you tell us treks alignment?) So lynching him would be a risk as it gives the mafia another „free“ nightkill without us learning anything really. (For the arguments in such a case go back to Mafia VIII.)
Instead of lynching trek we could agree on a no lynch (yes, again…) to see if he‘s replaced, otherwise he would be modkilled with the same outcome.



4) Conclusions
It seems like the discussion is focusing on two or three people again (marco and knockout especially), leaving out others mostly or completely (like myself). I find it weird that most people seem to agree on me (f.e.) without forcing me to defend myself (not even quadsas poked on me). I especially remember jdog saying so. (If I got that wrong, correct me please.) Why is that? And who else isn‘t pressured yet?

The most important thing I enforce:
No early lynch-trains at all. (Though I‘ll probably join lynching later in the Day, if no lynch gets no further support.)

I probably will add some more conclusions later in the Day, but by now I finally want to get this post out there.
 
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knockout
Just a quick info on the replacement: I talked with jandal before the game started and he had already talked to someone who would probably step in if needed although he didnt want to sign up in the first place.
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knockout
Okay, decided to write my analysis now already. Again focus on voting from yesterday. I put it in a spoiler because i dont like how the formatting looks.

Spoiler
First up an overview about which votes came when:
(at the top of the column the recipient of the vote, each row for a new vote, number before the name is the number of votes on the recipient after the vote, in brackets the remaining number of votes on the former recipient after changing the vote)

CroatiaMarcoJdogNo lynchhillistrekbmcSleeps
1.bbl
1. Croatia
2. jdog
1. kandes
1. ryant
2. jaxika
1. Croatia-Croatia(1)
2. Bikex
2. df_trek
-df_trek(1)1. df_trek
3. quadsas
3. Marco
4. knockout
4. ryant-ryant(0)
5. hillis
1. trekbmc

(this should give a decent overview when each decision was made and how the situation was at the time of posting the vote)

9 out of 12(+trekbmc) voted on either Croatia or Marco. I interpret this that the mafia had an interest to vote for one of them too (Marco = mafia) but they could have also adjusted their day 1 strategy after reading the interpretation of the mafia standing on the sidelines in a town vs town battle.

Part 1 - Spreading the vote around

69h left: BBL votes for Croatia

This vote doesnt say much. First vote of the day, it didnt look likely to get a lynch here, doesnt say a lot about his allignment.

53h: Croatia -> jdog
52h: jdog -> Croatia

Jdog with a "No U" vote on Croatia. I usually don't like it but its jdog and we've seen multiple other players do the same thing earlier: trek vs me, Croatia vs bbl, quadsas vs everyone who mentions him,... I dont think this is really much of a mafia move coming in this situation: jdog never shown good allignment reading skills and if Croatia gets lynched this might not look too good without really needing that vote here already. So i think this is more likely a genuine town vote

51h: Df_trek defends Croatia
50h: Kandes defends active players ("suggest a deeper look into the more quiet players like marco..."#222), votes to lynch noone

I'll get to this one later.

27h: ryant votes hillis. Claims it is just an activity vote
23h: jaxika votes jseadog (2nd vote).

Hard to make anything out of this. Could be a genuine read by a townie but could also be a mafia thing. Croatia is the only one with two votes at this point so i kinda would rule out jaxika and jdog as a mafia couple.

21h: Jdog makes his mafia promise post.
21h: Croatia switches from jdog to marco (1st vote)
20h: Bikex votes on marco (2nd vote)

This vote by Bikex looks pretty good to me. Only Croatia has two votes and backing another one with 1 vote looks good. When I want to read it from a mafia perspective then i'd say it could be to make it a marco vs croatia vote instead of a croatia vs hillis vote but it reeks more like a townish vote so far.

20h: Df trek with an activity vote on hillis (2nd vote)
10h: Df trek changes to trekbmc

Croatia and Marco are at 2 votes each at this point. Would be a good way to stay out of the way as mafia. Voting the completely inactive trekbmc

Part 2 - Piling up the votes


9h: quadsas votes Marco (3rd)
8h: I defend marco arguing that he looks terrible and that a mafia member would probably at least look like he attempts to make some reads / is interested
8h: quadsas says he has jdog as top target but doesnt vote for him because there is no lynch train on him
... further bickering between him and me because i think his vote should be on his top target at this point which he thinks is suspicious...

Note: before his vote the vote count was:
2: croatia
2: marco
1: jdog
1: hillis
Had he voted for jdog there would have been a three way tie. I have no clue what to make of this. Any suggestions?

3h: marco votes for croatia to "save himself". Later states that jdog is his top read.

Note: Neither him or quadsas make any effort to lynch jdog instead who could have been in the lead by now. How are we supposed to read that? Mafia members that want to read their mate as suspicious without risking to lynch him by accident? Mafia members Town members that don't think a lynch is possible there? Townies that have no overview about the vote count?

2,5h: I vote for Croatia

This looks ugly.
This is the go ahead vote: 4 on croatia vs 3 on marco

51min: ryant votes for marco

Due to the power of the politician Marco would be lynched at this point.

22min: hillis votes for croatia

If marco is mafia then this looks very bad for him (ironic that i write it?). Yes he stated it earlier that croatia is his biggest mafia read but even that was at a time when marco, croatia (and himself - although mostly activity votes) were tied with 2 so if he were mafia, preparing a later vote here totally makes sense. Definitely a guy to watch closer in case of marco being mafia. It would have been a big risk to cast that vote but i was already getting lots of heat because my vote came pretty much out of nowhere so he might have thought it would be worth taking the risk. Actually would also make sense for him if marco isnt mafia because croatia is (seen as) the stronger player.

4min: Croatia claims power role

This is the point where i totally panicked. I think that some mafia members would pretty much do the same post because I'd argue that post is worth an attempt a 100% of the time. A single townie panicking and removing his vote and the mafia member would have stolen the town a day a misslynch even when the counter claim comes the next day. Does this make the decision to stick with the vote correct? I have no clue but remember that we only had three or four minutes to make that call. Hard to make a good decision in such a short time window.

1min: kandes long post: gonna make a seperate post.


Bikex moves into a category of more trusted members and i still stick to my protown reads of jdog and jaxika

On neither top vote:

trekbmc - i still think he is townish and genuine in his absense. I dont think he would have logged in to put himself into the fantasy betting lead if it was a planned break as it would have been easy to just stay logged out of the site if he wants to replicate his trekbmcing from an earlier game. Also bantered with me outside of the site about the fantasy betting table.

df_trek: i didnt really notice him on day 2 but based on day 1 I'm leaning on protownish.

kandesbunzler: next post
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jseadog1
@kandes

Could jdog and bbl please explain (again?) why they hold their vote up?


I was not online at the time Croatia decided to reveal 4 minutes before the deadline, I was driving. I had no reason to switch my vote until this post. He was in danger of being eliminated much earlier in the day and did not have a reason to wait so long. I don't even have a power role and was not under as much pressure but still made a claim post much earlier in the day.

You do anything you can to survive. The more analysis knockout is giving the more I think he is genuinely a townie but I still am set on Marco or bbl going today. I'm still not sure how to think about these inactive players either. I tend to believe trekbmc like knockout does but then again you never know.

If kandes is mafia, he is playing the best mafia game out of anyone in the mafia thus far with the exception of knockout if he is mafia. I say that because knockout has started to earn my trust but I don't want to seem biased because he also said the same about me recently.

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Marcovdw
As my exam week is this week and I cannot guarantee much activity I'll just put my vote out here now: lynch knockout

Both out of self defense again (2 vs 2 between us now) but also because I genuinely believe he's mafia. He did not want this day to become a 1v1 battle again and not so soon but here we are. I read your Croatia14 vote on the previous day as taking out the stronger player of the two candidates as Croatia was undoubtly a stronger player than me. Rolling on me now is easy if you vote from the believe that either one of us has to be Mafia. Going by the prefered votes of at least three people from the previous day we could've easily made a case against jseadog1, but overnight he decides we should not even worry about that and head straight towards this battle.

If up until now or in previous games your main source if information has been knockout's posts, try to make up your own mind. His posts this edition seem to have some flaws, which might very well be deliberate.
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quadsas
well jseadog1 made a critical mistake is making another bad post

lynch jseadog1
deez
 
knockout
kandesbunzler: I agree with kandesbunzler that it's strange how little he is talked about.

kandesbunzler26 wrote:

I suggest a deeper look into the more quiet players like marco (though I liked his reading of the nightkill), hillis, jaxika, bikex, maybe even quadsas (and of course myself if you want to). I'm pretty sure there are one or two mafia players hiding in between, and maybe those will be harder to find in late game.
On the other hand focusing on the more active players like the treks, knockout, jseadog, Croatia, BBL would lead to fights between them, most probably resulting in lynches against the most active townies, reducing the town in number and lose the assets. Therefore I'm willing to give the active players the benefit of the doubt for now (though of course still watching their actions and keeping them in mind).


Then he was online in the end for long enough to post that long evaluation of all players. I think the natural thing you do when you get online 30 minutes before the end of the day is to see who is about to get lynched and whether one can disagrees with that. Being online for that long and not reacting to the lynch is a strange set of priorities. The quoted post suggests that he would want to protect active players for sure but he didnt cast a vote for marco as one might expect from that earlier post.

However, not coming online at all seems like a much better alibi for the mafia so would the mafia really post sth like that at the deadline? Makes me believe that Marco and kandes are no mafia pair which makes not voting for marco less suspicious i guess. I guess thats weird cycle logic but does that make sense to anyone?

Kandes was also a lot in the "members online" list between the end of the day and jandal posting the results of the day. Is that a sign that he F5ed a lot because of being curious about the flip of croatia?
(Marco was the other name who i repeatedly saw in that span. Is that an argument for him too and a sign that i might be wrong about him?)

Spoiler
I liked his analysis post today. Disagree about the nightkill being a frame job against me because the confirmed townie is enough of a reason that we dont need a second reason for it.

And yeah i guess my opening post today was a mistake. Calling for a 1vs1 between marco and me was too early in the day. probably should have done that at the end of the day

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knockout
quadsas wrote:
well jseadog1 made a critical mistake is making another bad post

lynch jseadog1


What was his mistake?
We cant read your mind...
______

@hillis: Would you mind explaining why bbl was/is a detective read for you?
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quadsas
knockout wrote:
quadsas wrote:
well jseadog1 made a critical mistake is making another bad post

lynch jseadog1


What was his mistake?
We cant read your mind...
______

@hillis: Would you mind explaining why bbl was/is a detective read for you?


whole game was bad. he got croatia lynched, he made that promise post which honestly shouldve DQed him on the spot, now he says 'you do anything to survive' and then he says because youve been posting a lot that makes you good in his eyes, even though that contradicts the surviving part. Just so bad.
deez
 
jseadog1
quadsas wrote:
well jseadog1 made a critical mistake is making another bad post

lynch jseadog1


So because you think im a bad town player im a mafia? C'mon we are past this now. Im obviously a townie refer to my post a few pages ago.

Why are you wasting your time on me :lol: I'm straight spitting facts when I tell ya I'm just a townie my man. Look a few pages ago also where someone posted about when I was mafia I went through the game without deliberately stating I was pro town. I dont lie. I'm a townie. You'll see it one way or the other.

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quadsas
jseadog1 wrote:
quadsas wrote:
well jseadog1 made a critical mistake is making another bad post

lynch jseadog1


So because you think im a bad town player im a mafia? C'mon we are past this now. Im obviously a townie refer to my post a few pages ago.

Why are you wasting your time on me :lol: I'm straight spitting facts when I tell ya I'm just a townie my man. Look a few pages ago also where someone posted about when I was mafia I went through the game without deliberately stating I was pro town. I dont lie. I'm a townie. You'll see it one way or the other.


that only means that you lied when you said that 'you play the game same way everytime'. even more nonsense from you then
deez
 
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