issoisso wrote:
Wait, they haven't been busted for 9 days, so that's conclusive?
more conclusive than riding well
and its more like since january 2010 which is 2 1/2 years
Yep, people seem to think this is Froome's breakthrough, but surely he's been riding well for at least a year now....do people forget the Vuelta last year and how well he did? he finished 2nd no?? and didn't he come 2nd in the stage 10 ITT, beating Wiggins into 3rd??
issoisso wrote:
Wait, they haven't been busted for 9 days, so that's conclusive?
more conclusive than riding well
and its more like since january 2010 which is 2 1/2 years
Yep, people seem to think this is Froome's breakthrough, but surely he's been riding well for at least a year now....do people forget the Vuelta last year and how well he did? he finished 2nd no?? and didn't he come 2nd in the stage 10 ITT, beating Wiggins into 3rd??
I Know, his "breakthrough" was at the Vuelta. Edited by baseballlover312 on 10-07-2012 22:17
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
issoisso wrote:
Wait, they haven't been busted for 9 days, so that's conclusive?
more conclusive than riding well
and its more like since january 2010 which is 2 1/2 years
Yep, people seem to think this is Froome's breakthrough, but surely he's been riding well for at least a year now....do people forget the Vuelta last year and how well he did? he finished 2nd no?? and didn't he come 2nd in the stage 10 ITT, beating Wiggins into 3rd??
the issue there is that that result was random, no big previous results
issoisso wrote:
Wait, they haven't been busted for 9 days, so that's conclusive?
more conclusive than riding well
and its more like since january 2010 which is 2 1/2 years
Yep, people seem to think this is Froome's breakthrough, but surely he's been riding well for at least a year now....do people forget the Vuelta last year and how well he did? he finished 2nd no?? and didn't he come 2nd in the stage 10 ITT, beating Wiggins into 3rd??
You haven't really read anything anyone's written, have you?
The whole point about Froome has been that he did absolutely nothing before suddenly becoming amazing just when Sky weren't going to renew his contract
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
issoisso wrote:
Wait, they haven't been busted for 9 days, so that's conclusive?
more conclusive than riding well
and its more like since january 2010 which is 2 1/2 years
Yep, people seem to think this is Froome's breakthrough, but surely he's been riding well for at least a year now....do people forget the Vuelta last year and how well he did? he finished 2nd no?? and didn't he come 2nd in the stage 10 ITT, beating Wiggins into 3rd??
You haven't really read anything anyone's written, have you?
The whole point about Froome has been that he did absolutely nothing before suddenly becoming amazing just when Sky weren't going to renew his contract
that sounds like damn good motivation to train and ride better than you have before
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
issoisso wrote:
Wait, they haven't been busted for 9 days, so that's conclusive?
more conclusive than riding well
and its more like since january 2010 which is 2 1/2 years
Yep, people seem to think this is Froome's breakthrough, but surely he's been riding well for at least a year now....do people forget the Vuelta last year and how well he did? he finished 2nd no?? and didn't he come 2nd in the stage 10 ITT, beating Wiggins into 3rd??
You haven't really read anything anyone's written, have you?
The whole point about Froome has been that he did absolutely nothing before suddenly becoming amazing just when Sky weren't going to renew his contract
that sounds like damn good motivation to train and ride better than you have before
"I might not get renewed. I'm so mad I could almost win the Vuelta!"
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
issoisso wrote:
Wait, they haven't been busted for 9 days, so that's conclusive?
more conclusive than riding well
and its more like since january 2010 which is 2 1/2 years
Yep, people seem to think this is Froome's breakthrough, but surely he's been riding well for at least a year now....do people forget the Vuelta last year and how well he did? he finished 2nd no?? and didn't he come 2nd in the stage 10 ITT, beating Wiggins into 3rd??
You haven't really read anything anyone's written, have you?
The whole point about Froome has been that he did absolutely nothing before suddenly becoming amazing just when Sky weren't going to renew his contract
that sounds like damn good motivation to train and ride better than you have before
"I might not get renewed. I'm so mad I could almost win the Vuelta!"
I actually LOLed at that
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
issoisso wrote:
Wait, they haven't been busted for 9 days, so that's conclusive?
more conclusive than riding well
and its more like since january 2010 which is 2 1/2 years
Yep, people seem to think this is Froome's breakthrough, but surely he's been riding well for at least a year now....do people forget the Vuelta last year and how well he did? he finished 2nd no?? and didn't he come 2nd in the stage 10 ITT, beating Wiggins into 3rd??
You haven't really read anything anyone's written, have you?
The whole point about Froome has been that he did absolutely nothing before suddenly becoming amazing just when Sky weren't going to renew his contract
that sounds like damn good motivation to train and ride better than you have before
16 pages come on...give me a break....and yes it's amazing the motivation one gets with the threat of unemployment.....but not to the lengths of doping.....surely not
issoisso wrote:
Wait, they haven't been busted for 9 days, so that's conclusive?
more conclusive than riding well
and its more like since january 2010 which is 2 1/2 years
Yep, people seem to think this is Froome's breakthrough, but surely he's been riding well for at least a year now....do people forget the Vuelta last year and how well he did? he finished 2nd no?? and didn't he come 2nd in the stage 10 ITT, beating Wiggins into 3rd??
You haven't really read anything anyone's written, have you?
The whole point about Froome has been that he did absolutely nothing before suddenly becoming amazing just when Sky weren't going to renew his contract
that sounds like damn good motivation to train and ride better than you have before
16 pages come on...give me a break....and yes it's amazing the motivation one gets with the threat of unemployment.....but not to the lengths of doping.....surely not
Then why do riders dope? Surely not just for their results but so they still have a job at the end of the day.
If you had your dream job, whatever it be. Apart from hurting other people I bet you'd probably do anything to keep it if it meant getting paid for your favourite activity.
SaddleSore wrote:
16 pages come on...give me a break....and yes it's amazing the motivation one gets with the threat of unemployment.....but not to the lengths of doping.....surely not
“I wanted a contract. I have a son, a new house, a car and I wanted to start a new life” he said. “I made a mistake. In a instant, I just stepped into my car, drove to Barcelona and parked in the city centre. I went was ready to go around the pharmacies where I might find EPO. At the second one, I had what I needed.”
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
yes of course, you wouldn't use your real name on a forum surely....and yes Euan Mcewen is rather silly....almost like Phil and Gary Neville's (of Man U fame) dad Neville Neville
issoisso wrote:
Wait, they haven't been busted for 9 days, so that's conclusive?
more conclusive than riding well
and its more like since january 2010 which is 2 1/2 years
Yep, people seem to think this is Froome's breakthrough, but surely he's been riding well for at least a year now....do people forget the Vuelta last year and how well he did? he finished 2nd no?? and didn't he come 2nd in the stage 10 ITT, beating Wiggins into 3rd??
You haven't really read anything anyone's written, have you?
The whole point about Froome has been that he did absolutely nothing before suddenly becoming amazing just when Sky weren't going to renew his contract
that sounds like damn good motivation to train and ride better than you have before
16 pages come on...give me a break....and yes it's amazing the motivation one gets with the threat of unemployment.....but not to the lengths of doping.....surely not
Then why do riders dope? Surely not just for their results but so they still have a job at the end of the day.
If you had your dream job, whatever it be. Apart from hurting other people I bet you'd probably do anything to keep it if it meant getting paid for your favourite activity.
(I am not condoning doping btw)
I think riders dope because that was the norm in cycling....
Getting paid for my favourite activiy .....surely the oldest profession in the book
Over the last couple of days (since the thread was created) I have reading the comments that people of put, and I thought I would throw in my 2 cent, as the saying goes. (Apologies if any of this is repeating what has been said already. There was a hell of a lot of things said and I can't remember it all )
I have been a big Wiggo fan for years, from his days on the track to his adventures on the road, and have also read his autobiography, so yes my point of view may be a little 'biased', but points of view are like arseholes... everyone has one, whether people like it or not.
Reading his autobiography, he talks about how he wanted to evolve into a road rider after success on the track, and developed that at Garmin, not Sky. Remember, he finished 4th in the Tour when he was with Garmin, doing at first a very similar role to what Froome did at Vuelta last year and the Tour this. Also he dropped his weight down dramatically in order to transform from a track pursuit to a road racer. This development has just continued at Sky. Last year, he won the Dauphiné in a similar way to how he won all the stage races this year. He sets his own rhythm on the climbs, and grinds away whilst others attack. He is not an explosive climber.
He trained in Tenerife because, like Alakagom said, it is isolated, and quiet, and away from the press/media, and the team can train in peace. Also, there is a big arse volcano there, so plenty of training up mountains, and at altitude. If you can find somewhere that is like that, and easily accessible for a big cycling team, then you should forward your suggestions to Sky directly, cos you obviously know something that they don't, and might even get offered a job with them.
And for those that question him losing the weight, but still keeping the power in the TT, yes it is possible. It is all about how you put it on the road, through technique and position. Contador, for example, is a great climber, and an equally good TT rider. If he hadn't buggered up with some dodgy steaks, he would be up there in the Tour now with Wiggo.
So... now on to Froome. Yes, I will admit it is a little suspicious, and a shock to the system. He has gone from average rider/domestique to great climber/domestique in about 12months. And looking from the outside, the doping finger can be pointed at him. But can I bring other riders into this argument who have pulled great results out of nowhere in the cycling world:
1. Peter Velits in 2010 at the Vuelta. He finishes 2nd in the Vuelta, beating Cancellara (who won the World ITT just weeks later, so much be on form at the Vuelta) in the final ITT in the process. Before then, what was his best result, as either a TT rider or a GC rider... 32nd on the Tour in 2009 and a few national u-23 titles before that...?
2. JJ Cobo, at the Vuelta again, last year. Wins the Vuelta, after beginning the Grand Tour as a domestique to Menchov. He climbs like a GC veteran, beating the likes of Wiggins (+ 1,39), Menchov (+ 3'48) and Nibali (+ 4,31). Yet again, for that GC victory, he had a few Top 10 finishes in one week Stage races and 10th at the Vuelta in 2009, but nothing more than that!
3. Sep Vanmarcke out sprinted an on-form Tom Boonen at the Omloop Het Nieuwsblad earlier this year, but then did nothing else at any of the other Cobbled Classics!
4. Boonen attacking 56km from the finish of Paris-Roubaix, and riding away with ease from the others in the group, and winning by over 1,30! When Cancellara did that a couple of seasons ago, he was accused of having a motor on his bike, cos it is not possible for someone to be able to do that in a bike race like the Paris-Roubaix!
5. Jon Tiernan-Locke won the Tour de Méditerranéen, Tour de Haut Var and comes in second at Vuelta a Murcia earlier this year. Yes I know, he is a Continental rider with Endura, but even he had the doping finger pointed at him, like a lot of people are doing now with Froome/Wiggo/Team Sky now, because he was not the favourite to finish high on the GC, and has no previous results that show he is capable of doing it.
6. Lieuwe Westra at the Paris-Nice this year finished in 2nd behind Wiggins, and only just, losing out by 8 seconds! He is in no means a climber and has never been considered as a GC contender at stage race like Paris-Nice, but did anyone question this result... plain and simple: No!
7. Thomas de Gendt finished 3rd in the Giro this year! When has he honestly been considered as a GC rider in a Grand Tour? He has always been known as a rider who gets in the breaks, and does 'a Voeckler' trying to hold on when he is a leader's jersey.
Ok, I know that there are only 7 examples above, but people need to remember that surprise results have happened before from riders who we do not expect to do it, but can we not just congratulate these riders for what they have been able to achieve through dedication, training and generally putting in the hard work? Also, can we also remember the phrase 'innocent until proven guilty'... If they are caught, and are shown to have doped, then ok, I will one hold my hand up, and admit I got it wrong!
But will all those pointing the doping fingers at Sky and Froome admit they were wrong if they are proved to be clean, or will you just say that they are taking something that cannot be detected, or think up more excuses to why they haven't been 'caught' yet?
So that is my point I wanted to say, so feel free to agree, question or pull it apart as much as you want!
felix_29 wrote:
If Froome had the potential to win a GT, the managers would have known that from his training data and would try to renew his contract asap.
Training data can not really reflect potential. Cavendish was told when he joined t-mobile that he would not finish a World Tour stage, let alone win one, because his training stats/output did not stack up again others and what was required to compete.
felix_29 wrote:
If Froome had the potential to win a GT, the managers would have known that from his training data and would try to renew his contract asap.
Training data can not really reflect potential. Cavendish was told when he joined t-mobile that he would not finish a World Tour stage, let alone win one, because his training stats/output did not stack up again others and what was required to compete.
But look at him now!
Cavendish was on the very edge of being kicked off the British Development program because of his poor training values ... now hes a world champion etc.
If they want a nice place to train, why don't they do it in Azerbaijan? Also a quiet place
Or Cyprus if you want a better example as it's actually good for cycling.
P. Velits.. Wasn't he U23 champion on a hilly course? He was for them active in the mountains at the Tour 2008 I think.. So I wouldn't say that Velits is definetly doped but he is at Quickstep where I would say the chance is 10% higher than 50/50..
Team Bianchi - 2012 Man-Game ProContinental Tour Champions
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
.....surely the oldest profession in the book 
