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2012 DB: Stat Discussions
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 29-09-2024 22:24
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 16-05-2012 15:13
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For my point of view, you cant take past results into play when making a 2012 database. It should be how the riders are today,this season. So maybe when Basso will crush the oposition at the Giro, his stats should be increased for the next version after V2, that depends on those doing the stats (which will be maybe for pcm 2012 database?).
Sanchez is maybe too good,but his stats reflects the fact that he is one of the few to put Conta,Schleck,Evans in danger at GT's. 
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 16-05-2012 15:19
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Rammus wrote:
Ah didn't realise I was alone on my opinion of Sanchez.  I'll try to explain my thoughts though
If you compare him with Basso for example Sanchez has
+1 flat
+19 downhill
+4 timetrial
+3 prologue
+7 sprint
+15 acceleration
+2 resistance
+1 recovery
+5 hill
climb&stamina are equal
That kind of increase means Sanchez is a whole new level above where Basso. Then you look Sanchez's best GT result was 2nd back in 2009 (in arguably the weakest GT) compared with Basso who was won mutiple GT's. I just don't see where his +57 (total) stat increase is deserved, like thats massive.
I agree you then can argue but hey, Sanchez is better than Basso at stuff like timetrials,descending,hills,sprinting etc which is completely true so they should be higher. So then you look at why is he not smashing these guys in real life ? So my point is well maybe his recovery, stamina, acceleration (stats that are hard to judge) are not as strong as you percieve them.
You can make similar comparisons with Scarponi,Anton and some others. Anyways yeah just some explanation.
You can take what I say with a grain of salt though as I'm a big fan of Basso  ! I just think there is something off with Sanchez, that's all.
Okay,
Flat - Sanchez is just slightly better at flats, fair reflection
Downhill - Basso could be uppered a bit, but Sanchez is one of the 5 best descenders in cycling
Time - Trial - I think his results speak for itself. Won TT at Pais Vasco this year too.
Sprint/Acceleration - Sanchez is quite explosive looking at his results, even look at Pais Vasco this year and his duel with Rodriguez. Basso doesn't have that explosion, he's a disel mountain rider. He doesn't attack but rides everyone of his wheel.
Resistance/Recovery - Basso wasn't great last year. If he does well at Giro, and he should do, those stats will be the same in next update to Sanchez or even better 
Hill - Basso isn't the strongest climber on hills, doesn't have the explosions. Don't suit him as well as big mountains while Sanchez is quite good at them, good reflection there.
All fair points though, let's wait few weeks more and let's see what can we do for Basso's stats 
Edited by Alakagom on 16-05-2012 15:20
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| climeon |
Posted on 16-05-2012 18:44
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Alakagom wrote:
Okay,
Flat - Sanchez is just slightly better at flats, fair reflection
Downhill - Basso could be uppered a bit, but Sanchez is one of the 5 best descenders in cycling
Time - Trial - I think his results speak for itself. Won TT at Pais Vasco this year too.
Sprint/Acceleration - Sanchez is quite explosive looking at his results, even look at Pais Vasco this year and his duel with Rodriguez. Basso doesn't have that explosion, he's a disel mountain rider. He doesn't attack but rides everyone of his wheel.
Resistance/[b]Recovery[/b] - Basso wasn't great last year. If he does well at Giro, and he should do, those stats will be the same in next update to Sanchez or even better
Hill - Basso isn't the strongest climber on hills, doesn't have the explosions. Don't suit him as well as big mountains while Sanchez is quite good at them, good reflection there.
All fair points though, let's wait few weeks more and let's see what can we do for Basso's stats
Basso's recovery should be higher than sanchez's, it is his major strength in grand tours and is how he has won so many. If you read interviews with him on e.g. this years giro, he says that the race suits him because it has a big last week and recovery is what he excles at most. For the other stats though I agree with you, but Basso should have better recovery than Sanchez (and nearly all other top contenders) |
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| siwi |
Posted on 16-05-2012 18:49
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Think Basso should be one of the best riders in the recovery stat. I know there was the Tour de France last year, but it was one time, i think what makes Basso so good in Grand Tours - besides he is a good climber obv - is his recovery. |
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| andrebaptista |
Posted on 20-05-2012 15:05
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First of all I haven't tried the 2012 V2 database so I don't know if the following rider have had their attributes changed.
After their performance in Tour de Gila and in California I believe that some of the rider from Bontrager Livestrong Team should have their potential/attributes improved.
Lawson Craddock has been doing some pretty decent climbs (65 in Climbing), some good TTs and Sprints (both to 67,68) and increase his Flat Road, Resistance and Endurance (5th in Tour de Gila GC).
And Joseph Dombrowski has been doing some really good climbs (4th in Mt Baldy and 3rd in Tour de Gila GC).
And lets not forget that Zdenek Stybar finished 2nd in 4 Jours de Dunkerque and won a stage (but he as only done one race, so that maybe isn't enough for us to get information about him)
What do you think? |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 20-05-2012 15:13
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andrebaptista wrote:
First of all I haven't tried the 2012 V2 database so I don't know if the following rider have had their attributes changed.
After their performance in Tour de Gila and in California I believe that some of the rider from Bontrager Livestrong Team should have their potential/attributes improved.
Lawson Craddock has been doing some pretty decent climbs (65 in Climbing), some good TTs and Sprints (both to 67,68) and increase his Flat Road, Resistance and Endurance (5th in Tour de Gila GC).
And Joseph Dombrowski has been doing some really good climbs (4th in Mt Baldy and 3rd in Tour de Gila GC).
And lets not forget that Zdenek Stybar finished 2nd in 4 Jours de Dunkerque and won a stage (but he as only done one race, so that maybe isn't enough for us to get information about him)
What do you think?
About Craddock, some small increases should be on in the next updates. Although I wouldn't increase endurance as it counts for only stages >200km and Tour of Gila didn't have any. Joseph Dombrowski for sure needs an increase. Stybar will need some more races to do well but he's on right path to have an increase in stats too
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| entzo |
Posted on 20-05-2012 15:32
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I think Sanchez is better than Basso.
2009:
Basso:
Giro:3
Vuelta:4
Sanchez:
Vuelta:2
2010:
Basso:
Giro:1
Tour:32
Sanchez:3
2011:
Basso:
Tour:7
Sanchez:5
In this 3 years Sanchez finish the GT in better position than Basso |
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 20-05-2012 15:34
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entzo wrote:
I think Sanchez is better than Basso.
2009:
Basso:
Giro:3
Vuelta:4
Sanchez:
Vuelta:2
2010:
Basso:
Giro:1
Tour:32
Sanchez:3
2011:
Basso:
Tour:7
Sanchez:5
In this 3 years Sanchez finish the GT in better position than Basso
In 3 years Basso is too old to be a GT contender 
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 20-05-2012 15:35
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Disagree. 2009 Basso rode two GTs, against Sanchez who only went for Vuelta. 2010 Basso won the Giro and wasn't seriously a contester for the Tour, you shouldn't even count his result there. And last year Basso definitely lacked some form because of his injury less than 2 months before the Tour imo.
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| colombia_coldeportes |
Posted on 21-05-2012 17:51
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Hi,
Maybe Darwin Atapuma from Colombia-Coldeportes deserve better statts. Above all things better Hill and Mountain.
Edited by colombia_coldeportes on 21-05-2012 17:52
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| carmelobymelo |
Posted on 21-05-2012 18:12
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colombia_coldeportes wrote:
Hi,
Maybe Darwin Atapuma from Colombia-Coldeportes deserve better statts. Above all things better Hill and Mountain.
After Giro I will upload my DB, Atapuma and Duarte are both 75 MO, also Dombrowski got increase like many other riders. The db will probably be released 27th may.
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| colombia_coldeportes |
Posted on 21-05-2012 18:14
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Cool!!!
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| baia |
Posted on 21-05-2012 18:34
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T.Machado should have better MO stats.....B.Intxausti too...F.Duarte too...Atapuma....That Farnese rider that stayed in Rodriguez wheel to win the stage(even when Rodriguez let him win)..That Colnago rider too....A.Amador too...
Edited by baia on 21-05-2012 18:34
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 22-05-2012 06:58
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I am sure the stats will be updated after the Giro for 2012 edition and i have just one suggestion. Jan Barta at least 75 fighter, his fighting spirit is great.
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 22-05-2012 08:11
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baia wrote:
T.Machado should have better MO stats.....B.Intxausti too...F.Duarte too...Atapuma....That Farnese rider that stayed in Rodriguez wheel to win the stage(even when Rodriguez let him win)..That Colnago rider too....A.Amador too...
Machado ? Well, he didn't show that much this year so I'll wait to increase his MO after Tour Others I agree with, about Amador well, he didn't beat excatle moutnain specialists to take a win but we'll see Jan Barta definitely needs a nice fighter figure but as well already has 74
Edited by Alakagom on 22-05-2012 11:58
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| ppanther |
Posted on 22-05-2012 10:35
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Eibegger Mo 73 -> 70/69
Hill 75 -> 72
Starzengruber Acc 76 -> 72
Spr 74 -> 70
Hill 71 -> 69/68
Schorn Acc 68 -> 70/71
Spr 68 -> 70/71
Zoidl Hill 61 -> 66/67
Spr 61 -> 65
Acc 63 -> 66/67 |
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| felix_29 |
Posted on 22-05-2012 11:20
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Have Cameron Meyer and Luke Durbridge have been mentioned? Meyer climbed well in Tirenno and in the AToC, Durbridge also surprised there.
I´d give Meyer about 70, Durbridge about 64 after those performances.
And Stybar should at least have a much higher potential as he proved he can win road races
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| ppanther |
Posted on 22-05-2012 11:23
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ppanther wrote:
Eibegger Mo 73 -> 70/69
Hill 75 -> 72
Starzengruber Acc 76 -> 72
Spr 74 -> 70
Hill 71 -> 69/68
Schorn Acc 68 -> 70/71
Spr 68 -> 70/71
Zoidl Hill 61 -> 66/67
Spr 61 -> 65
Acc 63 -> 66/67
additional some thoughts about the drivers:
Eibegger was a real promising young driver while he was at the Elk team but after his transfer to a iranian team he didn't show much and now he is driving for the austrian Gourmetfein Wels team.
Starzengruber didn't show much since his austrian championship title 2010. Currently driving for the austrian team Radland Tirol.
Schorn I would give him slightly better sprint stats cause of his good Giro and Classic results. Maybe also +1 or +2 in Hill.
Zoidl I know he is a not very well known driver outside austria. But in the national Tchibo Top Rad Liga he finished the first five races at the places 1, 2, 1, 1, 2. He even won the Austrian TT championship.
Edited by ppanther on 22-05-2012 11:24
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| jt1109 |
Posted on 22-05-2012 12:31
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Scott Thwaites(Endura) Seems to be a bit underated at the moment in comparison to other Endura riders considering his performances this year and last (unsure if you watch the premier calender and tour series) Alakagom but Thwaites has been consistenly up there 2nd in Doon Hame winning the points jersey winning the tour of reservoir and being 9th in the Lincoln GP has also won the bunch sprint behind the break in the Crit Championship last season and was 9th in the national champs
At the moment his weakeness are his Stamina and Resistance with his climbing though he has shown good hill and flat skill so i suggest
Flat from 64 -> 68 (should be higher as JTL is too high but this is on par with McEvoy etc)
Hills from 60 -> 69 (massively underated here as he is lower then track rider Bibby)
Sprint from 64->72 (he is a better sprinter then McEvoy who is on 70)
Acc to roughly the same
Stamina from 64 -> 60 Never seen him put in a good performance aboard on the long stages much more suited it short races.
Recovery from 58 -> 65 has shown in Utah and Brantagne that he can recovery well from long races.
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| CountArach |
Posted on 22-05-2012 12:31
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Gijs Van Hoecke (Topsport Vlaanderen) really needs a much higher TT/Prologue and flat given his stellar results on the Track, including the madison WC. Maybe 66 in each?
In fact, speaking of Topsport riders, De Vreese had a good season last year and another good early season this year. He probably deserves about 68 in hill and 65 in cobbles as well as a high 60s in stamina, given his decent result in WT races this year like a top 50 at Amstel.
Edited by CountArach on 22-05-2012 12:37
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