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Armstrong stops fighting doping charges - USADA wants him banned and stripped for titles
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 25-08-2012 23:06
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issoisso wrote:
fcancellara wrote:
Just asking, why is Armstrong banned for life, and not just for 2 years, as is usual for a doping suspension?
Hope any expert (issoisso, Aquarius) can answer 
2 years is for doping. He was convicted not just of doping, but also of drug trafficking, distribution and administering. Penalty ranges from a 4 year ban for one time things, to a lifetime ban for a repeated offence, which was the case since he repeated it for 14 years
Most dopers use doping for a period of time, but it's always a 2 years suspension for the first time, regardless how often that time was, right?
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| jseadog1 |
Posted on 26-08-2012 00:18
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Thought I would share these:
The last one is irrelevant to the case but was with the rest that were newly made..
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| Ste117 |
Posted on 26-08-2012 00:25
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Wonder what the effect this will have on the reputation of the TDF!
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 26-08-2012 00:26
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| cilldroichid |
Posted on 26-08-2012 00:49
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Ste117 wrote:
Wonder what the effect this will have on the reputation of the TDF!
Well anybody with even a passing interest in cycling would know that doping has been widespread in cycling, so this is not exactly a shock.
In fact you could substitute most sports for cycling in the above statement. |
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| jseadog1 |
Posted on 26-08-2012 01:25
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haha @valv -- Whats with the other hand?
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| Ste117 |
Posted on 26-08-2012 03:39
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cilldroichid wrote:
Ste117 wrote:
Wonder what the effect this will have on the reputation of the TDF!
Well anybody with even a passing interest in cycling would know that doping has been widespread in cycling, so this is not exactly a shock.
In fact you could substitute most sports for cycling in the above statement.
yes but nothing to this scale, Armstrong has almost manipulated the whole sport for the 7 years he was at the top. To cover up all of this while he was winning and not being caught using a masking agent to cover up his doping for such a period of time is devasting beyond anything Ullrich, Basso, Contador or Valverde done.
The biological passport would of got Armstrong I think. Look Schleck gets caught for using a masking agent so how did they never catch Armstrong. UCI covering it all up like they tried to do for Contador. Who knows.
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| Trout80 |
Posted on 26-08-2012 06:12
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cilldroichid wrote:
Ste117 wrote:
Wonder what the effect this will have on the reputation of the TDF!
Well anybody with even a passing interest in cycling would know that doping has been widespread in cycling, so this is not exactly a shock.
In fact you could substitute most sports for cycling in the above statement.
Yep, no surprise in this. But on the other what is the point taking all the wins away so many years afterwards. Who will be now winner of those all TDF? Someone who didn´t is doping? Who might that be?
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Posted on 25-11-2024 20:38
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 26-08-2012 06:23
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Trout80 wrote:
Yep, no surprise in this. But on the other what is the point taking all the wins away so many years afterwards. Who will be now winner of those all TDF? Someone who didn´t is doping? Who might that be?
The point is well explained in this point:
Aquarius wrote:
Mresuperstar wrote:
Clean up the sport NOW, leave history and the PAST alone.
Sadly, cheaters and/or dopers are always or almost always one length further than anticheat/doping organisations, so retroactive investigations are the only efficient way to bust cheaters at some point.
Better late than never.
Who will now be the TdF winner? Well, they can either leave those years without a winner or give it to the 2nd place. "Ah but the 2nd place was also a damn doper!" While on practice it is like that, legally it's not, just like Armstrong was a 7-time TdF winner until 3 days ago. Afaik, Ullrich is, legally, clean until 2005 (ignoring amphetamines case). He hasn't and won't lose his results previous to that. Why do people keep thinking that, since they've got down one doper, they're going to run down the GC list playing the "connect the dots" game on every rider until they find a truly clean one to give the title to?
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 26-08-2012 08:41
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According to the lawyer who's defended "L.A. Confidential" authors, speaking to L'Équipe, Armstrong's hotel was meant to be raided during BBM2, erm, I mean the second rest day, in 2005. Investigators had come from Paris, when at the last moment they got an order to come home and not raid it.
For those not familiar with French politics, investigators depend on the Ministry of Internal affairs (Minisère de l'Intérieur), and the minister back then, was no one else than Nicolas Sarkozy, who's called Armstrong an example lately, and to whom Armstrong asked for Pierre Bordy's (AFLD boss) head in 2009. |
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| Gustavovskiy |
Posted on 26-08-2012 14:09
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Has anyone read Savoldelli's words? He's one of those who defends this sentence is the result of an overly thorough persecution, and that it doesn't make sense to investigate the past.
However, despite defending this, he still adds his voice to the encore of comments who depict Armstrong as a victory-obsessed psycho who fed himself on the hate of others.
This is most interesting to me, given that unlike Andreu, Landis or other former team mates, his words are not biased for wanting to bring him to justice.
Edited by Gustavovskiy on 26-08-2012 14:10
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| cilldroichid |
Posted on 26-08-2012 15:26
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Aquarius wrote:
Who will now be the TdF winner? Well, they can either leave those years without a winner or give it to the 2nd place. "Ah but the 2nd place was also a damn doper!" While on practice it is like that, legally it's not, just like Armstrong was a 7-time TdF winner until 3 days ago. Afaik, Ullrich is, legally, clean until 2005 (ignoring amphetamines case). He hasn't and won't lose his results previous to that. Why do people keep thinking that, since they've got down one doper, they're going to run down the GC list playing the "connect the dots" game on every rider until they find a truly clean one to give the title to?
In my humble opinion they would be better off to leave those years without a winner because to take the win off one doper to give it to another doper just makes a mockery of the whole process, legally correct or not. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 26-08-2012 15:50
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fcancellara wrote:
issoisso wrote:
fcancellara wrote:
Just asking, why is Armstrong banned for life, and not just for 2 years, as is usual for a doping suspension?
Hope any expert (issoisso, Aquarius) can answer
2 years is for doping. He was convicted not just of doping, but also of drug trafficking, distribution and administering. Penalty ranges from a 4 year ban for one time things, to a lifetime ban for a repeated offence, which was the case since he repeated it for 14 years
Most dopers use doping for a period of time, but it's always a 2 years suspension for the first time, regardless how often that time was, right?
But they're only caught for one occasion, you can't prove they always did it. That's why almost every single one of them who "admits" makes a point of saying "it was a one time mistake, i certainly wasn't on drugs when I got [insert career best result]"
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"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| boork |
Posted on 26-08-2012 17:11
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Anyone got any idea of what will happen with the FBI charges now when USADA have managed to prove that he did dope? Will they be able to get him into jail and to pay back all the money he stole from the US goverment? |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 26-08-2012 17:14
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boork wrote:
Anyone got any idea of what will happen with the FBI charges now when USADA have managed to prove that he did dope? Will they be able to get him into jail and to pay back all the money he stole from the US goverment?
Nothing. The question there, iirc, was whether he had used public funding to dope, and that's not what the USADA has addressed.
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 26-08-2012 18:38
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kumazan wrote:
boork wrote:
Anyone got any idea of what will happen with the FBI charges now when USADA have managed to prove that he did dope? Will they be able to get him into jail and to pay back all the money he stole from the US goverment?
Nothing. The question there, iirc, was whether he had used public funding to dope, and that's not what the USADA has addressed. To buy, traffic, sell, store, administer, use dope. Which is something more important than just using it. |
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| Eden95 |
Posted on 31-08-2012 13:09
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If anyone wants to have a bit of fun, or practise their argumentitive skills, I suggest you head over to Lance's official facebook page. The thousands upon thousands of messages being posted claiming he is 'innocent till proven guilty' make for some quality fun. One post has 130,000 likes and almost 7,000 comments supporting him, if anyone suggests otherwise they get bombarded with threats and backwards arguments that have been used so many times they've lost their originality.
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| Trout80 |
Posted on 31-08-2012 13:55
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And Tyler Hamilton now saying on book that Armstrong gave him EPO on 1999. Why doesn´t that surprise me at all? |
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 31-08-2012 14:03
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Eden95 wrote:
If anyone wants to have a bit of fun, or practise their argumentitive skills, I suggest you head over to Lance's official facebook page. The thousands upon thousands of messages being posted claiming he is 'innocent till proven guilty' make for some quality fun. One post has 130,000 likes and almost 7,000 comments supporting him, if anyone suggests otherwise they get bombarded with threats and backwards arguments that have been used so many times they've lost their originality.
Armstrongs defence (and that of his followers) can be summed up with:
- No positive tests
- It's a witchhunt
- Jealousy
- He fought cancer so he must be next to Jesus
And if all else fails; aliens!
There's a fine line between "psychotherapist" and "psycho the rapist"
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 31-08-2012 20:57
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cactus-jack wrote:
Eden95 wrote:
If anyone wants to have a bit of fun, or practise their argumentitive skills, I suggest you head over to Lance's official facebook page. The thousands upon thousands of messages being posted claiming he is 'innocent till proven guilty' make for some quality fun. One post has 130,000 likes and almost 7,000 comments supporting him, if anyone suggests otherwise they get bombarded with threats and backwards arguments that have been used so many times they've lost their originality.
Armstrongs defence (and that of his followers) can be summed up with:
- No positive tests
- It's a witchhunt
- Jealousy
- He fought cancer so he must be next to Jesus
And if all else fails; aliens! Jesus and Danny Pate are next to him, you mean.
Hamilton's book explains how Armstrong got UCI to threaten or target his main rivals specifically when they seemed to have a product better than his. Read cyclingnews article if you want to know more.
How despicable is that guy ? :x |
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