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2015 HC Race Calendar Revealed
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| FroomeDog99 |
Posted on 20-03-2015 19:18
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SportingNonsense wrote:
FroomeDog99 wrote:
I guess Paris - Tours isn't supposed to be in band 6 and band 4?
Some interesting new races. Not sure which bands we'll go for at the moment. Shame the Kenya Mountain Classic is in such a horrible band for us once again.
Fixed that - Manx International in 6.
And considering that Band 4 continues some of every race type, if it is horrible for you, that probably isnt a good sign 
Well I guess it would be nice to have all your HC racedays where you can compete, and in band 4s case it has 4 cobbled race days which will most likely be wasted. I guess you're always going to have that sort of problem though whatever team you are (unless you're like Quickstep this year with top leaders on all terrains). |
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| ggDonovan |
Posted on 20-03-2015 19:35
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I've checked the DB and I have to say (even if it goes agains my interests...) that cap at 79 stat, 77 average might be fine to give the PT teams to win something but still give the PCT teams the weight of the races.
I made some screens of how it could look like if this had happened this year.
MO:
HI:
TT:
CO:
SP:
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| Scorchio |
Posted on 20-03-2015 21:54
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Good job ggD, we must have been doing this in parallel (myself offline). It is plain to see the that MG hierarchy must have done similar analysis in advance of selecting the nominated values, as all makes sense now (aprt from sprinters  ).
Regarding the races in the HC bands, how is Strade Bianche treated in PCM - are the white sand roads interpreted as cobbles, or just flat / hilly inline with the gradient?
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| roturn |
Posted on 20-03-2015 21:58
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Thanks for this ggdonovan.
Those are pretty much what I have thought about the limits.
Sprint are tough to do as PCT was the strongest sprinter division last year. But a 79 sprinter might not do anything. So increasing this to 80 eventually could work as well.
For time trial eventually lower the stat to 78.
Mountains, Hills and Cobbles imo look quite decent. |
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| Roman |
Posted on 21-03-2015 01:06
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Well, I probably already know, what my team will try to get in their schedule. Hopefully P-KV-P will stay as a PT race though. 
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 21-03-2015 06:32
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Some interesting bands and to choose from, also some nice changes to the bands. I like band2 and switching TT/hilly stage in Bayern Rundfahrt there, but i dont like hardening of Britain tour much. HC bands are maybe a bit puncheur heavy this year, but that may be only the first impression.
Conserning the PT "wildcard" in the HC band, 79 main stat and 77average sounds like reasonable limit for the riders, maybe with special limit for cobbles though and increase for sprinters also.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 21-03-2015 06:33
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| Smowz |
Posted on 21-03-2015 08:45
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I am really looking forward to be able to mix with the PCT and possibly CT guys in the HC band. Certainly will be an interesting tactical choice as to which band to go for - it will depend I guess on which scraps we are left with
In terms of PT team restrictions looking at the database this would be my recommendation, assuming the average calculation remains the same:
AVE < = 78.
Spoiler A lot of the guys between 78 and 79 are stage race leaders or basic all round leaders of the guys in the ProTour. Don't think these guys should be allowed to pillage the stage races as an option to avoid competition.
MO < = 79
HI < = 79
TT < = 81
No Cobbled restriction
No Sprint restriction
Spoiler One dimensional mountain and hill guys are fairly commonplace. No way do we want Claeys, Di maggio etc. with their large amounts of race days pillaging HC races. There is a lot more points to be gained from mountains and hills in general. This is why I would recommend being a little more generous to the TT guys - riders like Kittel, Sergeant get little chances to do anything in the PT against the stage racers and guys like Coppel. I am not sure about this one - can easily see an arguement for TT < = 79 too.
The cobbled opportunities are sparse and whilst they are also sparse for the PCT guys they get lots of chances to wildcard into the PT races why not have a sprinkling of good cobblers the other way? Guys like Blythe, Nolf and even the consistent Summerhill rarely get much of a chance in the PT to get even on the podium.
Sprints is tricky - you need a decent ACC and usually a few other bits to do well in sprints. I think no restrictions gives the managers of Swift, Guarnieri and oh Bos  an option of small sh*t race wins! It would be nice to think that there is a chance of the elite sprinters to meet in a race and given that a lot of the best sprinters are in the PCT anyway - I don't think restrictions are necessary for the sprints
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Posted on 22-11-2024 19:29
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| the_hoyle |
Posted on 21-03-2015 09:21
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Scorchio wrote:
Regarding the races in the HC bands, how is Strade Bianche treated in PCM - are the white sand roads interpreted as cobbles, or just flat / hilly inline with the gradient?
There is no rating on the Strade Bianche white roads. They are just treated as incline with a different road texture on there. It would be good if they could be rated like the cobbles
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 21-03-2015 09:35
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the_hoyle wrote:
Scorchio wrote:
Regarding the races in the HC bands, how is Strade Bianche treated in PCM - are the white sand roads interpreted as cobbles, or just flat / hilly inline with the gradient?
There is no rating on the Strade Bianche white roads. They are just treated as incline with a different road texture on there. It would be good if they could be rated like the cobbles
Yeah, Im pretty sure PCM has a cobble rating now where you can chose how "harsh" they are. It would be nice to have the sand roads rated as lower difficulty cobbles atleast.
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| roturn |
Posted on 21-03-2015 09:45
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Smowz wrote:
I am really looking forward to be able to mix with the PCT and possibly CT guys in the HC band. Certainly will be an interesting tactical choice as to which band to go for - it will depend I guess on which scraps we are left with
In terms of PT team restrictions looking at the database this would be my recommendation, assuming the average calculation remains the same:
AVE < = 78.
Spoiler A lot of the guys between 78 and 79 are stage race leaders or basic all round leaders of the guys in the ProTour. Don't think these guys should be allowed to pillage the stage races as an option to avoid competition.
MO < = 79
HI < = 79
TT < = 81
No Cobbled restriction
No Sprint restriction
Spoiler One dimensional mountain and hill guys are fairly commonplace. No way do we want Claeys, Di maggio etc. with their large amounts of race days pillaging HC races. There is a lot more points to be gained from mountains and hills in general. This is why I would recommend being a little more generous to the TT guys - riders like Kittel, Sergeant get little chances to do anything in the PT against the stage racers and guys like Coppel. I am not sure about this one - can easily see an arguement for TT < = 79 too.
The cobbled opportunities are sparse and whilst they are also sparse for the PCT guys they get lots of chances to wildcard into the PT races why not have a sprinkling of good cobblers the other way? Guys like Blythe, Nolf and even the consistent Summerhill rarely get much of a chance in the PT to get even on the podium.
Sprints is tricky - you need a decent ACC and usually a few other bits to do well in sprints. I think no restrictions gives the managers of Swift, Guarnieri and oh Bos an option of small sh*t race wins! It would be nice to think that there is a chance of the elite sprinters to meet in a race and given that a lot of the best sprinters are in the PCT anyway - I don't think restrictions are necessary for the sprints
Not a fan of the 81 TT.
As ggdonovan showed, already a 79 time trialist would be top5 material last year. So I would be more into a 78 restriction than highering it even for PT riders.
I don`t fully agree with it, that they don`t have that many chances in PT. Races like Qatar or early time trials often saw Fiedler, Kittel, Zabriskie in good positions.
Plus they have huge value in all those TTT`s on the PT calendar.
Allowing Kittel etc. to race HC races, would make him already the no.1 winner candidate there in 80% of the races.
So as said above I would keep it with 79 for each with only eventually reducing it to 78 for TT and highering to 80 for sprint to at least give PT sprinters a chance.
PCT was sprinter crazy last year and even with 80 you are not guaranteed to reach a lot. But the PCT sprinter teams will already struggle enough in the sprints even without PT teams. So having no sprint restriction at all would mean, that basically all sprinters but the cobled combinations would be under 77AVG.
This includes Swift, Guerao etc. who would dominate in PCT sprints then. Not sure if this is good.
Edited by roturn on 21-03-2015 09:45
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| Smowz |
Posted on 21-03-2015 10:14
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Let's remember though that the PT teams only get to pick one HC band. They are not going to be racing everywhere, they will not be in C1 races and a lot of the HC races.
Another reason I felt about the sprint non restriction was that actually in pcm14 unless you have enough power in the pack, breakaways will win too often. Sprints are more random then mountain climbs and even hilly races. The dominant sprinter does not necessarily always win. Frankly if Sprints are restricted in any way PT teams may as well not bother with a sprinter at all. Whereas a medicre climber or hill guy will always have a chance or either slipping into a late breakaway or hanging on for a decent GC - or a lucky weak startlist.
I wan't really sure about the TT thing either now in reflection - as you point out the TT guys can strike in a few early season races - but unlike the hilly/mountain guys there are very little stage race GC's that chrono specialists can do well in unless they can hang on in (like Coppel, Cancellara, possibly Posthuma) based on their Top stat alone. It is similar with the cobbled guys.
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| cio93 |
Posted on 21-03-2015 13:46
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Last year, this was the easiest decision of our off-season.
This year, it might very well be the hardest.
And Smowz, what you might forget in your reasoning: yeah, pure TT specialists don't have much points scoring potential in PT.
But they don't really have much more in PCT either, and these are PCT races after all...
I'm all for more PT-PCT interaction. I am not for PT-only podiums in the most important and most lucrative PCT races though.
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| Gustavovskiy |
Posted on 21-03-2015 15:10
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Relegation is always a bummer, but PCT always gives you another dimension on race-day planning. I echo the voices of awe regarding the guatemalan race, it seems like a tremendous event, one which I'd like to take part. There is one band though that, as noticed by SN, naturally allures me, but besides that, everything is pretty fuzzy.
Regarding PT restrictions, I reckon it's a tough call. Not sure if we could postpone this decision till after renewals/transfers, but if not I'd mostly agree with roturn's vision.
MO - 79: PT teams can fight for top10/top5s, but will mostly be shoved away from GC victories. A few stage wins may be on the cards for these sort of climbers, so it seems fair enough
HIL - 79: Typically a mainstay of PCT, the hilly department always proves crucial. 79 HIL riders will be able to even fight for victories, despite not being top favourites, so this one looks fair as well
TT - 78: roturn seems right here. Even though there have been extremely strong TT teams in PCT in the last few years, generally the rest of the field his light years away from those. Also I don't think this should be seen as a way of giving PT riders a way of enjoying more winning chances, but rather as a way of expanding and diversifying PT race-days.
COB - Actually I have no idea what the level should be here. I think I never had
SPR - 80. No restriction here would just make this a nightmare for continental teams. 80 SPR is just like 79 HIL, you won't be the favourite but you'll surely have a triumph here or there.
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 21-03-2015 15:16
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I think that I will revise the 79 limit downwards, for some stats at least.
This is the first year of PT/PCT interaction and I would rather have it go too far to the favour of PCT teams, than too much in favour of PT teams. It's always something that could then be moved up in future seasons, or even after transfers if PCT develops a notable strength in an area.
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| SotD |
Posted on 21-03-2015 17:28
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How about lowering the stat to 77 or so, but making exceptions for talented riders that are not fully developped? Those could then be 79-80 or so.
I would be sad to see Lecuisinier not able to ride a PCT race, as he wouldn't be a favorite in the PCT stage races, and in the PT he would probably not get a single top 10 all season. The PCT offers a chance for him to show his promise, which makes the role playing aspect hugely interesting I think.
It all comes down to how the racedays are calculated aswell though. If it cost a regular raceday, I think it will be very limited how often you would see a PT 78+ rider in the PCT. Those riders can easily use up their race days in the PT. And I guess that the points scored in the PCT doesn't count for anything in the PT rankings, or am I wrong?
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 21-03-2015 17:36
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It will cost race days, and the ranking points will count.
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| roturn |
Posted on 21-03-2015 17:45
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Lecuisinier in PT will also get top10`s imo.
He is not too much different from Keizer last year with better hill and weaker TT.
Edited by roturn on 21-03-2015 17:46
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| SotD |
Posted on 21-03-2015 17:52
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roturn wrote:
Lecuisinier in PT will also get top10`s imo.
He is not too much different from Keizer last year with better hill and weaker TT.
Quite a lot weaker TT though. 6 stats to be exact
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| SotD |
Posted on 21-03-2015 17:54
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SportingNonsense wrote:
It will cost race days, and the ranking points will count.
Okay... That is very very cool imo. I like that input. It gives two very important extra dimensions to the game. 1) The PT managers have to consider the raceplanner more carefully and 2) The managers between divisions will merge into a better unit.
I'm a huge fan. Thanks for this!
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| roturn |
Posted on 21-03-2015 17:54
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With 79/73/75 though I would still be surprised if he does not reach at least one Top10.
And as long as the 79 mountain stat stays, he would be eligible for PCT HC. |
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