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Velogames Spring Classics
Shonak
baseballlover312 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
@Ollfardh: It's a seperate leaderboard though.


That's pretty stupid either way. Why would people pay more just for point inflation?

I think it's about special events that run in this league. Like Alak said, 5 bucks is nothing for a site that you have enjoyed for years, and it's not only for spring classics but for the whole year.
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ianrussell
Shonak wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
Shonak wrote:
@Ollfardh: It's a seperate leaderboard though.


That's pretty stupid either way. Why would people pay more just for point inflation?

I think it's about special events that run in this league. Like Alak said, 5 bucks is nothing for a site that you have enjoyed for years, and it's not only for spring classics but for the whole year.


Exactly. It's provided years of enjoyment (how many countless hours has this guy spent providing that fun for free?), you get extra competitions and you still have the option to play for free - it ISN'T pay to win.

Read the full explanation - they are totally separate leaderboards so if you want to keep playing the free competitions they remain untouched...
 
DaveTwoBob
In and gave George a fiver, a bargain for all the fun I have had over the years.

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Crommy
All cyclists continue to be brothers:

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Lord Di Lego
My 2 cents on the whole premium thing.

Shonak wrote:
I think it's about special events that run in this league. Like Alak said, 5 bucks is nothing for a site that you have enjoyed for years, and it's not only for spring classics but for the whole year.


I agree, £5 is probably fair. You have to keep in mind the amount of time and effort that George has put into the site, and still is. Also, with more users might come slightly higher bandwidth and so on.
Not because of some accumulated debt though, the game has been completely free. If somebody wants to use that justification for themselves, that's fine, but it's quite thin an argument for making others feel bad about it. The fee is for 2015, nothing else.

ianrussell wrote:
Exactly. It's provided years of enjoyment (how many countless hours has this guy spent providing that fun for free?), you get extra competitions and you still have the option to play for free - it ISN'T pay to win.

Read the full explanation - they are totally separate leaderboards so if you want to keep playing the free competitions they remain untouched...


Well, except that you don't necessarily have that option. According to what has been said previously about the premium-system, as well as according to the calendar (https://www.velogames.com/paris-nice/2...hedule.php), a large chunk of this year's competitions will be premium-only, including several big ones that were free last year. Surely these premium-only competitions have to qualify as "pay to win", I mean, it's literally impossible to win otherwise. Pfft

* Warning, fairly long discussion of personal opinions*
Spoiler

Personally, I have really enjoyed competing in Velogames since I found it in 2013, and I usually make a real effort to do well. However, I'm not so financially well-off that I'm willing to pay for this, especially not with all the free entertainment that exists today. Furthermore, Velogames in itself isn't really all that technically complex to put together, especially for a smaller group of participants. So it's not like it's an amazing privilege that can't be replaced by something else.
I will be part of the large majority (probably) that will not be paying, and therefore I will be barred from a large number of this year's competitions. An alarmingly large number, seeing as it's just the first year of premium. If it gets to the point where I feel that I cannot be a consistent part of the community, or where the competitions available for me are so few or insignificant that it's more like a free taste than the full experience, then I will lose interest and stop spending my time on it.

Quite frankly, while I'm not completely opposed to some premium-privileges, I feel like George may be getting ahead of himself. He says that the premium fees are to make Velogames more professional, fair enough. But he has been unable to give us a glimpse of what that is. For anyone hoping for more than what is there now, this is like buyng a pig in a bag.

In fact, for this season, I thought that the biggest step Velogames could take was not even adding many more competitions, but actually communicating better with the fans/users. Both status updates when there are complications and postponements, as well as giving us a provisional calendar, so we can check when we can expect to see a Velogames-competition pop up (this is especially important if he continues neglecting the communication part). Also, it would be nice if he could do a proper effort to technically finish the competitions with a little more margin, so we could get more than 1-2 days to hear about it, tell our friends, research the race and riders and make a team selection before the deadline passes. But so far that hasn't been the case either, even though the calendar finally came up (but is only accesibale on the P-N-page, I believe...) and the communication has improved somewhat lately.

TDU came from nowhere, ending a silence that stretched from the 2014 ToB. We were promised an extended classics competition as well as a calendar shortly afterwards, it came much later. Instead we got more silence up until and past the point where many started wondering what was up with the classics competition. Still no communication. Finally a P-N competition popped up from nowhere (with little to no margin), a calendar was finally shared, followed immediately by a T-A competition that nobody expected (again, little margin to prepare, but better communication), the extended spring classics were scrapped for a redo of the old format, and that competition - the one that most requires time and planning - was postponed over and over throughout the week until it went live 2 days before the deadline. This is what people are asked to buy, as well as some vague goal of a more professional Velogames.

I would think that there would be a huge market and fanbase for a cycling prediction game like Velogames, that only takes the time you want it to take. A large part of that market is still probably untapped by Velogames. I consider myself a big cycling fan, but I left it at actually watching races on TV and streams and only found out about it fairly recently. The most natural way to create a revenue stream, for something like Velogames, would be to attract as many as possible and get some ad revenue going, as well as maybe some well-balanced premium-privileges. Because, let's not forget, Velogames and it's underlying complexity is in no way high maintenance, and barely scales with the number of players. On George's side, automating as much as possible would be important, to make it lighter on him, as well as make participation in the game simple and predicable.
Instead, the many premium-only competitions will probably thin out the userbase, make a large part of that userbase feel unwelcome half of the season, create hurdles for new players who find Velogames in the midst of a premium-only competition and lower the total ad revenue. The premium-only competitions that, let's remember, will take him just as much time and effort to set up and update, no matter how many players participate.

Again, I love Velogames but I think they're going down the wrong road. Too many competitions are premium-only, including some pretty big ones. The premium-only competitions should be secondary/bonus competitions only. At least races like Romandie, Dauphiné and the World Championship should be open to all. Races like Catalonia/Pais Vasco and even TdS (if Dauphiné was available), I could live without as a free player, because there are parallel alternatives you can participate in.

Velogames PCM Leagues:
TDU: 2015, 2nd | 2016,7th. P-N: 2015, 4th (GC:64th) | 2016,22th. T-A: 2015, 2nd (GC:24th) | 2016,11th. SprCla: 2015, 17th | 2016,11th. TdR: 2016, 8th. ToC: 2015, 5th | 2016,2nd. Giro: 2014, 135th | 2015, 121st | 2016,23rd. Dauphiné: 2014, 2nd (GC:9th) | 2016,4th. TdS: 2014, 41st | 2016,8th. TdF: 2014, 48th | 2015, 1st (GC:51st). VaP: 2015, 3rd (GC:67th). Vuelta: 2014, 4th | 2015, 10th. ToB: 2014, 1st (GC:1st) | 2015, 2nd (GC:99th).
 
ianrussell
"Compared to last season, the only games that were free-to-play and are now included under Premium Membership are the Fantasy Tour de Suisse, Fantasy Criterium du Dauphine, and the Tour de France King of the Mountains competition.

And these contests have been replaced by more free-to-play races...new free-to-play contests include the big regional, non-World Tour stage races such as Fantasy Tour of California, Fantasy Tour Down Under, Fantasy Volta a Portugal and Fantasy Tour of Britain."


So yes you can't play TdS, Dauphine and TdF KOM game free anymore (nor some freshly added premium content) but there are far more intended free competitions this year than ever if you look at the calendar. Plus by far the most popular game, the TdF main game, has been kept as a free to play option, which seems very fair to me.

We could go round in circles on this but the bottom line is you make a choice on whether it's worth it to pay or not. I spent £5 on one pint of beer last night and I'd wager I would get a lot more enjoyment out of £5 spent on this particular competition Grin

Half full or half empty - lots of free games for many years (and lots of effort made by him for free) with an option for a small outlay to enjoy even more this year or taking away a slice of previously free entertainment?

I know which way I'd lean but each to their own, live and let live and all that Smile
Edited by ianrussell on 21-03-2015 18:12
 
Selwink
What's up with the lack of Didi here?

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Edited by Selwink on 21-03-2015 19:59
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Jesleyh
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In Wink

First time I actually had trouble acquiring the 100 points.
Lots of class, but cheap, riders I think.
Edited by Jesleyh on 21-03-2015 20:21
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Lord Di Lego
ianrussell wrote:
"Compared to last season, the only games that were free-to-play and are now included under Premium Membership are the Fantasy Tour de Suisse, Fantasy Criterium du Dauphine, and the Tour de France King of the Mountains competition.

And these contests have been replaced by more free-to-play races...new free-to-play contests include the big regional, non-World Tour stage races such as Fantasy Tour of California, Fantasy Tour Down Under, Fantasy Volta a Portugal and Fantasy Tour of Britain."


So yes you can't play TdS, Dauphine and TdF KOM game free anymore (nor some freshly added premium content) but there are far more intended free competitions this year than ever if you look at the calendar. Plus by far the most popular game, the TdF main game, has been kept as a free to play option, which seems very fair to me.

We could go round in circles on this but the bottom line is you make a choice on whether it's worth it to pay or not. I spent £5 on one pint of beer last night and I'd wager I would get a lot more enjoyment out of £5 spent on this particular competition Grin

Half full or half empty - lots of free games for many years (and lots of effort made by him for free) with an option for a small outlay to enjoy even more this year or taking away a slice of previously free entertainment?

I know which way I'd lean but each to their own, live and let live and all that Smile


Don't get me wrong, I agree with most of what you said, I just have a slightly different perspective on it all. Wink
I get the point that you're making and I think that it's great that some of us are willing to pay for the game. As you correctly pointed out, as a free player you're not worse off than last year, in terms of number of competitions. I just think that there's far more to gain in increasing the popularity and playerbase of Velogames, rather than the opposite, because that's what this will inevitably do. It's also inevitable that many will see this as a sign that they're not really welcome unless they cough up some money, that they're inferior participants who can only join in sometimes, which includes missing some major races.
I'm actually curious to see how many sign up.

I hope my point about parallel and secondary races got through. I wouldn't have had such a big problem with this if Romandie, Dauphiné and WC were open to all. They're major races, at a time when nothing bigger is happening. The coming spanish races, TdS, Eneco and even Tour of Britain are all minor races in comparison, and all have another event running in parallel. Perfect choices for bonus competitions that could be premium-only, if he wished. All the KOM-competitions as well. After all he's added a lot more competitions and he's bound to put in the same effort and time getting everything ready no matter how many play, but only some will be welcome. Sad

As a free user, not all that much was really gained. Both Dauphiné and TdS were major races, and having both be premium-only when no other competition is running makes little sense, other than being annoying.
ToB isn't really new, it ran in 2013 and in 2014, I should know this because I'm the 2014 overall winner. George himself said that TDU was basically a test competition for new functionality, he didn't really sell it as a new important competition. ToC is also a smaller race in my book, no matter how much some try to hype it. Besides, it runs in parallel with the Giro, so I'd say it should have been a prime candidate to be premium-only. Finally, Volta a Portugal - a race which I actually really appreciate - but it's also a smaller, niche race for the many Portuguese players to dominate. Far from the top of the sport and the main riders.
You could have mentioned the Autumn Classics, at least they're on the calendar, because I actually think that those may be really interesting. Pfft

All in all, not that much lost really, but the details are still a bit enervating and in the long-run counter-productive, I think. Frown
Velogames PCM Leagues:
TDU: 2015, 2nd | 2016,7th. P-N: 2015, 4th (GC:64th) | 2016,22th. T-A: 2015, 2nd (GC:24th) | 2016,11th. SprCla: 2015, 17th | 2016,11th. TdR: 2016, 8th. ToC: 2015, 5th | 2016,2nd. Giro: 2014, 135th | 2015, 121st | 2016,23rd. Dauphiné: 2014, 2nd (GC:9th) | 2016,4th. TdS: 2014, 41st | 2016,8th. TdF: 2014, 48th | 2015, 1st (GC:51st). VaP: 2015, 3rd (GC:67th). Vuelta: 2014, 4th | 2015, 10th. ToB: 2014, 1st (GC:1st) | 2015, 2nd (GC:99th).
 
ianrussell
Fair enough, lets agree to (slightly) disagree Grin
 
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trekbmc
My 2 cents on the whole premium thing.


Isn't it your £5?


On another note, I'm thinking it would be fun to play the opposite to the normal game, trying to score as little points as possible, but with a 100 credit squad. Pfft



"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
 
Lord Di Lego
trekbmc wrote:
Isn't it your £5?


My Department of Opinions has been outsourced. Wink

My starting MSR team:
Sagan
Kristoff
Degenkolb
Avermaet
Matthews
Lobato
Roelandts
Boeckmans
Swift
Gougeard
Ladagnous
Cimolai

Wish me luck. Smile
Velogames PCM Leagues:
TDU: 2015, 2nd | 2016,7th. P-N: 2015, 4th (GC:64th) | 2016,22th. T-A: 2015, 2nd (GC:24th) | 2016,11th. SprCla: 2015, 17th | 2016,11th. TdR: 2016, 8th. ToC: 2015, 5th | 2016,2nd. Giro: 2014, 135th | 2015, 121st | 2016,23rd. Dauphiné: 2014, 2nd (GC:9th) | 2016,4th. TdS: 2014, 41st | 2016,8th. TdF: 2014, 48th | 2015, 1st (GC:51st). VaP: 2015, 3rd (GC:67th). Vuelta: 2014, 4th | 2015, 10th. ToB: 2014, 1st (GC:1st) | 2015, 2nd (GC:99th).
 
Selwink
Decided to make a gamble with Verschoor, and sure enough, he has a DNS. Yay Frown
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baseballlover312
1-2-7-11 from results thus far. Not brilliant, but my team can remain largely unchanged until the Ardennes, which is always good. Gives much more flexibility for transfers based on form later.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
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Strydz
Forgot I had Dagenkolb so 1st and 3rd for me but not the greatest of starts but it will do for now Smile
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Ollfardh
1-2-3-4-8, decent start Smile
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Kirchen_75
2-5-7. The Phil Styby Ciolek Kwiatek crash did me dirty.
 
cio93
1-2-3-4, forgot the rest atm :lol:
 
Roextro
2-3-4 not the best start but it isn't exactly bad either
 
roturn
1-2-4-5-8

So not too bad. That said, this was the easiest. Now transfers will become crucial.
 
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