|
Race Routes Discussion
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 29-01-2015 12:34
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Bur I cant find the actually profiles tho.. |
| |
|
|
| Selwink |
Posted on 29-01-2015 12:48
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
Joined: 17-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
The official site doesn't seem to have them, so I think they've not been released yet. Nevertheless I guess it'll probably be similar to the last years, with Arrate as usual as queen climb.
|
| |
|
|
| Shonak |
Posted on 04-02-2015 09:16
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
|
https://www.cyclin...therlands/
Giro 2016 to start in Gelderland, Netherlands. And here I was thinking RCS wanted to reduce transfer lengths & periods.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
|
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 05-02-2015 22:13
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
I remember reading almost solely negative comments about the Tour-route this when it was announced a few months back in here. Some of it I felt was unjustified as I for one liked it. All the race profiles obviously havent been released yet (which I dont understand - I mean, why not when the Giro and Vuelta does it), but the most important mountain stages have. Let me go through all those things I like and the little I don't. Let me start with the positives.
- I love the prologue in the Tour de France and have been missing it all those years it havent been included. 2 years is enough wihtout it and I can only applaud it being a rather long one, akin to the one in 2009 in Monaco. Big plus for me personally.
- The Tour has been experimenting with including 'classics stages' in week one with rather big success. Why not do it again to spice the first week (in this case, the first 9 days before it heads to the mountains?). I know flat stages for the sprinters are a tradition, but to be honest, 5 of those in a 7 days span are kinda dull. Spicing it up with the stage to Mur de Huy (which I could imagine would be kinda hilly throughout, or at least in the latter part of the stage) and the Mur de Bretagne which in stage + another one of those cobbles stages which have been proving to be an absolute success. That leaves 4 stages for the sprinters out of the first 9 days before we head to the Pyrenees - a perfect balance imo.
- I absolutely love the addition of bonus seconds in the first week, especially after including the prologue again. This makes all around riders who havent lost too much ground able to grab the yellow jersey throughout the first +week which I could imagine would be a fierce battle. Definetely a plus. For those who dont know, its 10, 6 and 4 like in the other GTs.
- For the first battle in the mountains, the Pyrenees have it all with 3 different stages - a flat Vuelta-exque MTF (the only one, so I cant consider that a legit argument against the route - I dont like them either in bunches), a stage to make up ground and potentially creating havoc over Aspin + Tourmalet and the finale at Beille. A very well rounded first trip in the mountains, allthough I would have liked to see the Beille-stage a bit more stacked in terms of tougher mountains beforehand.
- Mende is one hell of a climb and a perfect transition into the Alps along with the traditional finish in Gap which the past years it have been included have been rather intense. That doesnt leave much room for the sprinters, but to be honest, I really dont care about that after the first week.
- The Alps are decent. 4 stages is more than enough to decide the Tour and as the Pyrenees, there is a good balance. The Pra Loup-stage doesnt look hard, but the finish reminds me of a shorther Ax-3-Domaines and lets not forget the Allos is over 2 k in altitude. I know the last 2 stages have been raced before (the Alp is the exact same stage as in 2011 which the La Touissuire differs a bit from 2012), but that doesnt turn me too much of. Plenty of opportunities to use the Croix de Fer and Mollard on stage 19 and Gailiber on 20 as a springboard which also have been some of the criticism (that this years addition didn't had hard enough climbs before the finale). You can include Tourmalet to that as well, allthough I doubt anything would happen between the top-5 guys.
Now, thats a lot of positives. Basically I like the first week A LOT as the hills and cobbles have proven to very watchable. I would obviously have liked to tweaked some of the mountain stages a bit, but I bet you cant find any GT where that isnt the case. Generally, I am satisfied with the Alps and especially the Pyrenees as the first battleground.
Here is what I dont like:
- 14 ITT is not much and definetely too little. Im not the type of guy which absolutely love watching time trials, but I would have liked to see it total at at least 50 kms to make it more well rounded (which apart from the lack of ITT kms , they have done a great job of). A 40 km time trial in between the Alps and Pyrenees would have been great, but on the other hand, I feel its wrong just to totally dismiss the whole route just based on that which I had the impression of many did in here. On the other hand, it COULD turn out to be a blessing in disguise say if Froome proves on the same level/a little higher than the rest as an ITT would have made the gaps even bigger going into the Alps. But I doubt it.
- I have no problem with a TTT (at least not in the Tour since its relatively rare here compared to the two other GTs), but to place it on the 9th stage is kinda weird. I get where they are coming from in terms of giving riders an even bigger incitament to get through the first week, but I am almost certain it would be critizised heavily in July by some teams. They basically ask for scrutiny here. I dont condemn them at all for trying it and I will definetely watch with great tension, but they could have left it early and everyone would be happy.
So there is that (if you have come to this point..). Would aprreciate people's few cents and input here as I feel route discussion is undervalued. 
Edited by Riis123 on 05-02-2015 22:18
|
| |
|
|
| Shonak |
Posted on 21-05-2015 03:35
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
|
https://oesterreic...index.php/
Tour of Austria mix it up for once, though of course Großglockner & Kitzbühler Horn are part of it again. Dobratsch gets included in Carinthia. Race will start with TTT in Vienna (that is 5,3 long and won't use TT bikes lol) and then move westward. Basically hops from places I've lived to places I've been on holiday (Faaker See <3 ) to places I've ridden with my bike.
That video they put up on their website is one hell of an intense promo full of pathos. 
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
|
| |
|
|
| Stromeon |
Posted on 21-05-2015 10:07
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Shonak wrote:
https://oesterreic...index.php/
Tour of Austria mix it up for once, though of course Großglockner & Kitzbühler Horn are part of it again. Dobratsch gets included in Carinthia. Race will start with TTT in Vienna (that is 5,3 long and won't use TT bikes lol) and then move westward. Basically hops from places I've lived to places I've been on holiday (Faaker See <3 ) to places I've ridden with my bike.
That video they put up on their website is one hell of an intense promo full of pathos.
Well at least they've finally discovered that starting in Vienna and heading westwards makes so much more sense than starting in the west and heading back east, with the last few days always fairly flat. Nevertheless the stages are still abysmally designed as always You'd think there were only 4 or 5 mountain passes in the whole of Austria judging by the route!
Dobratsch could be a cool climb to include in the Giro one year actually, being only just over the border and you could easily string together some of the Italian and Slovenian passes in the area to create a really difficult stage with a killer final climb.
|
| |
|
|
| Shonak |
Posted on 21-05-2015 10:34
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
|
Hey, Großglockner & Kitzbühler Horn combo is legendary, so sssh. It's our Galibier-Alpe d'Huez-combo. I do agree with you though, we've so many great mountains, no harm in showing more of them.
Edited by Shonak on 21-05-2015 10:35
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
|
| |
|
|
| Stromeon |
Posted on 26-05-2015 16:36
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
ASO chose today of all days to release all the profiles for their shitty excuse of a Tour route.
Obviously we knew about the mountain stages before but the profiles of the flat and hilly stages have now been released. There seems to be yet another uphill finish, that we didn't know about before - the stage to Le Havre finishes on a 1km climb at 7%, so that makes 11 in total including the dim-witted TTT (same number as last year's Vuelta for a lolworthy comparison). On the plus side it looks like there will only be about 5-6 flat bunch sprint stages which is a drastic improvement on recent years (well, ever I suppose), although the sprinters will only have probably 2 stages in the entire last two weeks 
Looking at this in comparison to the Giro route and even the Vuelta route which is actually better this year just makes me want to cry.
Edited by Stromeon on 26-05-2015 16:40
|
| |
|
|
| Ian Butler |
Posted on 26-05-2015 17:18
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
ASO really doesn't want Sagan in green. That much is certain.  |
| |
|
|
| Movistar |
Posted on 26-05-2015 18:42
|
Domestique
Posts: 424
Joined: 05-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Anybody know more about the climb into Mende? Stage 13 it looks like. is it as crazy steep as the profile says? 3km at a 10% average.
|
| |
|
|
| Spilak23 |
Posted on 26-05-2015 18:54
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7357
Joined: 22-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
Yes. Has been used quite a lot already (too much actually), both in the Tour and in Paris-Nice. Vinokourov, Serrano and Jalabert all've won there iirc.
Edited by Spilak23 on 26-05-2015 18:55
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 12:19
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Stromeon |
Posted on 26-05-2015 18:57
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Movistar wrote:
Anybody know more about the climb into Mende? Stage 13 it looks like. is it as crazy steep as the profile says? 3km at a 10% average.
The Cote de la Croix-Neuve, or Montee Laurent Jalabert as it is sometimes known, has been featured in the Tour a few times, most recently in 2010. It is indeed quite steep for the Tour, but nothing compared to some of the Giro or Vuelta hills
This is the stage from 2010 where Purito outsprinted Contador to take the win with a small time gap over the other GC guys:
Edited by Stromeon on 26-05-2015 18:58
|
| |
|
|
| Movistar |
Posted on 26-05-2015 19:24
|
Domestique
Posts: 424
Joined: 05-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Stromeon wrote:
Movistar wrote:
Anybody know more about the climb into Mende? Stage 13 it looks like. is it as crazy steep as the profile says? 3km at a 10% average.
The Cote de la Croix-Neuve, or Montee Laurent Jalabert as it is sometimes known, has been featured in the Tour a few times, most recently in 2010. It is indeed quite steep for the Tour, but nothing compared to some of the Giro or Vuelta hills
This is the stage from 2010 where Purito outsprinted Contador to take the win with a small time gap over the other GC guys:
Ya nothing like the Mortirolo we saw today in the tour or some of those 20% walls of the Vuelta.
Thanks for that though I found a video of the end of the 2010 stage on youtube.
It is a great little climb. |
| |
|
|
| Stromeon |
Posted on 27-05-2015 23:33
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Stromeon wrote:
Obviously we knew about the mountain stages before but the profiles of the flat and hilly stages have now been released. There seems to be yet another uphill finish, that we didn't know about before - the stage to Le Havre finishes on a 1km climb at 7%, so that makes 11 in total including the dim-witted TTT (same number as last year's Vuelta for a lolworthy comparison). On the plus side it looks like there will only be about 5-6 flat bunch sprint stages which is a drastic improvement on recent years (well, ever I suppose), although the sprinters will only have probably 2 stages in the entire last two weeks
Looking at this in comparison to the Giro route and even the Vuelta route which is actually better this year just makes me want to cry.
Actually turns out there are 12 uphill finishes; stage to Rodez finishes on a 500m @ 10% ramp. So we have 7 consecutive uphill finishes of various sorts between stages 8 and 14 
|
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 28-05-2015 10:59
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Stromeon wrote:
ASO chose today of all days to release all the profiles for their shitty excuse of a Tour route.
Obviously we knew about the mountain stages before but the profiles of the flat and hilly stages have now been released. There seems to be yet another uphill finish, that we didn't know about before - the stage to Le Havre finishes on a 1km climb at 7%, so that makes 11 in total including the dim-witted TTT (same number as last year's Vuelta for a lolworthy comparison). On the plus side it looks like there will only be about 5-6 flat bunch sprint stages which is a drastic improvement on recent years (well, ever I suppose), although the sprinters will only have probably 2 stages in the entire last two weeks
Looking at this in comparison to the Giro route and even the Vuelta route which is actually better this year just makes me want to cry.
I love it. I counted 4-5 sprint stages which is freakin awesome since i watch the whole mofothing and lotta potential stages for Valverde. This year's Tour is pretty much dont lose too much time (or get hurt) in the first 9 days, have a rest day and wreck the field if you are strong enough in the mountains.
Add a flat ITT of 40 kms instead of Le Havre and you have the perfect Tour for me.
Edit: Lets also not forget that the Italy has MUCH better conditions for making the best routes. You can basically start a stage on Po (is it called that in English, lol) and finish in the mountains, the only freakin flat place in Italy. Im aware of France also have the Vosgues, Massif, Jura and obviously the Alpes and Pyrenées, but more than 50% of their country is flat.
Edited by Riis123 on 28-05-2015 11:48
|
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 28-05-2015 11:09
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Spilak23 wrote:
Yes. Has been used quite a lot already (too much actually), both in the Tour and in Paris-Nice. Vinokourov, Serrano and Jalabert all've won there iirc.
Meh, too much? Last i remember it in the Tour was in 2010 which produced one helluva stage. Its an awesome climb in the massif which always creates havoc. |
| |
|
|
| Ian Butler |
Posted on 28-05-2015 11:14
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
|
Very curious to see this profile into action in the Tour.
It could go both ways, but at least I guess they're trying to make it interesting.
Short uphill finishes means there's less chance at a Sky train forming, I guess? Though the longer uphill finishes are just an invitation to sit quietly and attack in the final 2 kilometers only.
the Alpes passage is pretty awesome, though. Not sure if I'm a fan of Alpe d'Huez on 20th stage, though.
Overall I'm happy to see more short stages. Hope this will make the Tour more aggressive and interesting! |
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 28-05-2015 11:41
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Ian Butler wrote:
Very curious to see this profile into action in the Tour.
Though the longer uphill finishes are just an invitation to sit quietly and attack in the final 2 kilometers only.
I dont really get it... so should they remove longer, uphill finishes? Also lets get real here, in 2013 (where more or less the same field attended, excluding Nibali), there were 4 mountaintop finishes. Sky blew it apart on Ax-3-Domaines (on the bottom) and on Mont Ventoux (on the mid section) with loooong way to go. Alpe d' Huez is Alpe d' Huez and is almost always ridden in a furious pace from the bottom (which is kinda did in 2013) and on the last climb, Annecy Semnoz, riders were blown all over the route BEFORE the climb even started (without any notable climbs before) which made for the best mountaintop finish I have ever seen with absolutely huge timegaps.
Let me be clear: The longer uphill finishes are not an invitation to anything if Froome is as good as that year - or Quintana is crazy strong, for that matter. These finishing climbs are more than hard enough compared to the Giro (Pierre Martin, Plateau de Beille and Alpe d' Huez - roughly 15 kms in average with 8%) to light a fire.
Edited by Riis123 on 28-05-2015 11:42
|
| |
|
|
| Stromeon |
Posted on 28-05-2015 11:58
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3507
Joined: 06-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
'Short stages make for more aggressive and interesting racing' or words to that effect
This is one of the most common myths surrounding stage design. Remember or know of Finestre 2005? THAT stage in the Tour 2006? Mortirolo 2010? Madeleine 2010? Galibier 2011? Gardeccia 2011? Stelvio 2012? All of them over 190km long and produced attacks from far out and epic stages in most cases.
Surely there must be some short stages that produce equally good racing? Fedaia 2008? Not considering the epic multi-mountain parcours. Alpe di Siusi 2009? Lol no. Although to be fair Blockhaus did . Saint-Bernards 2009? Not really. Alpe d'Huez 2011? Yes, but we still got a small group sprint amongst the favourites on Alpe d'Huez of all places! La Toussuire 2012? Wasn't exciting, and neither was Peyragudes the same year. Giro Galibier 2013? Not in a million years. Semnoz 2013 was good, but not as amazing as described above (despite Nairito winning  )Val Martello 2014? Yes, but only because snow. And all the other shitty Vuelta 'mountain' stages that are so numerous and unmemorable I can't be bothered to go through them all.
So yes, there can be some short stages that produce interesting racing, but all stages have a remote possibility of producing something interesting regardless of their design. Point is you just don't get 'epic' stages (without some weather interference) in short stages. The only long stage in the Tour is the Plateau de Beille stage, but no one is ever going to attack before the final climb on that stage.
|
| |
|
|
| LLDS |
Posted on 28-05-2015 13:27
|
Domestique
Posts: 700
Joined: 10-02-2013
PCM$: 400.00
|
Personally, I love this year route of Le Tour.
It seems very well chosen.
Cycling
|
| |
|
