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Cobble Dominance
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 04-03-2014 02:12
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alexkr00 wrote:
That attack is inhuman. Still, one greater year doesn't mean you are better.
Looking at their results through out their entire careers, Boonen beats Cancellara in every single cobbled race there is.
Really? After the "inhuman" 2010 of Cancellara, has Boonen beat him in any of the 4 WT cobbled classics without it ending in a big group sprint? Considering the cobbled monuments, in 2013 Boonen crashed out, 2012 Cance crashed out, 2011 P-R Boonen crashed out, thus the last cobbled monument where they really went 100% against eacher was the 2011 Tour of Flanders: https://youtu.be/-tpa6N0TaZA?t=30m32s
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 04-03-2014 07:40
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I see no domination, apart from Belkin and OPQS team domination, with likes of Stannard, Sagan and Cance being in the mix. Flanders could be between Cance and Sagan once again, while Roubaix should be OPQS vs. Belkin show with Boonen + Stybar against Vanmarcke in the final. 
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 04-03-2014 07:40
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 04-03-2014 13:01
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Hopefully Stannard will continue with his current form and have a successful Classics campaign |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 04-03-2014 13:15
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I agree no one will dominate, but I expect those 3 to fight it out, with maybe Van Avermaet or Sagan getting in the way. I don't see Stannard repeating himself in the bigger races.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 07:43
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| kubys |
Posted on 04-03-2014 13:35
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Domestique
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Å tybar will eat them alive.
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| Strydz |
Posted on 04-03-2014 14:02
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kubys wrote:
Å tybar will eat them alive.
I would like to see this but will he get a free role?
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
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William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald
https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 04-03-2014 14:06
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They would be really stupid at OPQS if not.
I think Boonen will be preffered for Roubaix though...it should depend on actual form and race outcome of course.
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| kubys |
Posted on 04-03-2014 14:13
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Strydz wrote:
kubys wrote:
Å tybar will eat them alive.
I would like to see this but will he get a free role?
I read something about his free role for RvV, P-R is discutable. Also his statement about aiming succes on RvV can confirm it.
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| ruben |
Posted on 04-03-2014 14:17
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i'm missing Sagan in this poll |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 04-03-2014 18:43
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alexkr00 wrote:
That attack is inhuman. Still, one greater year doesn't mean you are better.
Looking at their results through out their entire careers, Boonen beats Cancellara in every single cobbled race there is.
Boonen v Cancellara it's usually a case of one being injured or having crashed out so the other dominates. But when both are on top form then I'd always say Cancellara is the better rider, but of course he needs to drop Boonen en-route because of Boonen's sprint. Boonen has usually won a lot of his races due to outsprinting his rivals in the breakaway, whereas Cancellara just breaks them. At the moment Boonen has the stronger team of the two as well, so that equals things out.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 04-03-2014 18:44
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| depeche92 |
Posted on 04-03-2014 19:20
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I'm not sure Vanmarcke is already at Cancellara-Boonen level, and where is Sagan? 
1)Cancellara
2)Boonen
3)Sagan
4)Stybar
5)Vanmarcke |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 04-03-2014 19:55
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depeche92 wrote:
I'm not sure Vanmarcke is already at Cancellara-Boonen level, and where is Sagan?
1)Cancellara
2)Boonen
3)Sagan
4)Stybar
5)Vanmarcke
I think there's a lot of Belgian and Dutch members here, which is why they rate Vanmarcke so high, but I'm intrigued to see how well he will do this year.
1) Cancellara
2) Boonen
3) Sagan
4) Vanmarcke
5) Stannard
Ones to watch could well be Kristoff and Bos Hagan (he has to win a big one sooner or later) |
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| Dippofix |
Posted on 04-03-2014 20:06
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Tafiolmo wrote:
depeche92 wrote:
I'm not sure Vanmarcke is already at Cancellara-Boonen level, and where is Sagan?
1)Cancellara
2)Boonen
3)Sagan
4)Stybar
5)Vanmarcke
I think there's a lot of Belgian and Dutch members here, which is why they rate Vanmarcke so high, but I'm intrigued to see how well he will do this year.
1) Cancellara
2) Boonen
3) Sagan
4) Vanmarcke
5) Stannard
Ones to watch could well be Kristoff and Bos Hagan (he has to win a big one sooner or later)
Just what is it with Stannard? I mean, was he really that strong at the Omlooop? (That's a question btw, I'm away, so didn't get to see it). I mean, Paolini won Omloop last year in what seem to be imilar circumstances, and he didn't do shit in the other classics. I mean, he finished 5th at MSR and Top 10'd E3 or something, but that's nothing more than you'd have to expect from him anyway. If anything, i think he actually disappointed in G-W, RvV and P-R. So why shoudl Stannard do so well?
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 04-03-2014 20:09
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Top 5?
1) Cancellara
2) Boonen
3) Vanmarcke
4) Stybar
5) Sagan
9(or so)) Stannard. Let's not overrate him.
Sagan would be higher on RvV though, but I just don't think he has it in him even podium Roubaix.
Edited by Jesleyh on 04-03-2014 20:12
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 04-03-2014 20:14
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Classics Specialist
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547984 wrote:
Wiggins
Don't even joke about that.
I, as with many others, hope that no one will dominate. I want an exciting race right up to the finish line.
There's a fine line between "psychotherapist" and "psycho the rapist"
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 04-03-2014 20:38
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Dippofix wrote:
Just what is it with Stannard? I mean, was he really that strong at the Omlooop? (That's a question btw, I'm away, so didn't get to see it). I mean, Paolini won Omloop last year in what seem to be imilar circumstances, and he didn't do shit in the other classics. I mean, he finished 5th at MSR and Top 10'd E3 or something, but that's nothing more than you'd have to expect from him anyway. If anything, i think he actually disappointed in G-W, RvV and P-R. So why shoudl Stannard do so well?
I think Stannard is that strong to win a race like Roubaix and there is a consensus that this could be his year. Outside of the Cancellara and Boonen dominance he's just as likely as anybody else to win a big race and again he has a strong team in Sky that has no shortage of classic rides anyway.
Paolini's not a good comparison really as he's more of an opportunist rider with a good sprint and was clever enough to let Stijn Vandenbergh do most of the work in the Omloop break, btw Vandenvergh and Stannard are very similar riders.
With all the talk of the Cancellara and Boonen showdown, this is the ideal opportunity for Sagan to have a crack at Tour of Flanders and I think E3 will be the indicator of how strong these riders really are.
I'd also throw Vandenbergh and Stybar into the mix, the only problem is they ride with and for Boonen.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 04-03-2014 20:39
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| marble |
Posted on 04-03-2014 23:13
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I think we will see two different winners in Flanders and Roubaix this year. Only one I see with a realistic chance of taking both is Cancellara, but I wouldn't say he is the clear favourite in either.
Sagan will be incredibly hard to beat in Flanders. He was the only one to follow Cancellara last year up Oude Kwaremont on the last lap. If one is to beat him though it would be Cancellara. Can Sagan hang on up the Paterberg this year?
The reason I don't quite believe in Boonen this year is simply because he hasn't really been that impressive the past few years on the hills. In 2010 he couldn't hang onto Cancellara up the Muur and in 2012 he could barely follow Ballan and Pozzato up Paterberg. If Sagan doesn't crash out he will most likely be in contention if Boonen is, and Sagan will probably take that sprint. There's also quite a few younger riders with a good sprint that could hang on if it happens to be a smaller group fighting for the win like in 2012. Van Avermaet, Degenkolb, Hagen, perhaps Phinney, Turgot and Demare (Breschel?). Other outsiders would be Boom, Langeveld, Oss, Chavanel, Stybar, Offredo, Gatto, Vanmarcke, Thomas and Stannard in similar fashion as Nuyens won. Also it would be stupid not to mention Pozzato, I'm curious about his form so not sure where to place him, but if he is back in shape he will definitely be up there, he is still "only" 32 afterall.
I would still put my money on Cancellara or Sagan for the win though.
Boonen is a better bet in Roubaix in my opinion, and I would rate him highest there alongside Vanmarcke and Cancellara for the win. Stybar was really strong here last year aswell and we have seen teammates win through surprise tactics before so he would be my 4th (same goes for Terpstra, Vandenbergh and Chavanel but I think Stybar is the best bet for it on OPQS). I'm not as hyped up about Stannard as other people here because he won the Omloop on the asphalt, not on the cobbles. I'm also curious to see what BMC can do with Van Avermaet and Phinney.. They both rode well on the cobbled sections of Omloop, can Phinney finally step up after his impressive 15th place in the debut (same goes for Degenkolb who had his debut the year before with a 19th place)? Other outsiders would include Boom, Langeveld, Turgot and possibly Gaudin who has had two decent results here now. I don't quite believe in Hushovd, but I wouldn't count him out completely. Also what I said about Pozzato in Flanders applies here.
So many questions, that's why I love the classics season. Maybe an early breakaway will take it like in 2007  |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 04-03-2014 23:43
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@ Marble you've written some really good stuff and opinions there.
I agree about the hill factor concerning Boonen. I think he' a far better bet for Roubaix than he would be for the Tour of Flanders. I personally can't see anybody beating Cancellara in the E3 and Tour of Flanders if he rides like last year. So I think he'll win both again with only Sagan the likely rider to beat him. Also an interesting wild card for Flanders could be and nobody has mentioned him anywhere so far (and he's a Belgian) is Jurgen Roelandts and in last year's race he was a vital player and was the best man after Sagan.
I don't think Cancellara will win Roubaix though, I think the likelihood and demands are too great to win a Flanders and Roubaix double again and I think Boonen will be far more dangerous in this race and the field will be much more open. I think the main contenders will include Stannard, Vanmarcke and Vandenbergh (if Boonen is not on top form)
Also I'd love to see Pozzato back on form again as these races always need and Italian hardman as well. |
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 05-03-2014 00:06
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Tafiolmo wrote:
@ Marble you've written some really good stuff and opinions there.
I agree about the hill factor concerning Boonen. I think he' a far better bet for Roubaix than he would be for the Tour of Flanders. I personally can't see anybody beating Cancellara in the E3 and Tour of Flanders if he rides like last year. So I think he'll win both again with only Sagan the likely rider to beat him. Also an interesting wild card for Flanders could be and nobody has mentioned him anywhere so far (and he's a Belgian) is Jurgen Roelandts and in last year's race he was a vital player and was the best man after Sagan.
Roelandts was far from the best man after Sagan, he was just the only one who used his brain and attacked before the Cance/Sagan two-man show began.
The winner of the RvV will depend on whether Sagan can hold on Cancellara this year. I think Stybar is OPQS's best bet for RvV.
In Paris-Roubaix I think Boonen, Cancellara and Vanmarcke will be the three best guys. I think they can drop Sagan on the cobbles and I can see Stannard making a top 10 in PR, but no way he will win, he won't even make top 5. Boom will do nothing as usual and Van Avermaet will make his usual 4th/5th place. |
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| marble |
Posted on 05-03-2014 00:25
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Edit: In the 20 minutes it took me to write this post it had already been mentioned, but I'll keep this first paragraph in regardless.
Roelandts best bet is Flanders, but the reason he was able to stay up there with Sagan last year was because he had a gap before Paterberg. Cancellara and Sagan didn't catch him till after they had been over the Oude Kwaremont, and the gap he had created was on the flat not on the cobbles. On the Paterberg he was the first one to drop of the trio, but he caught up with Sagan afterwards. I honestly don't see him winning, he has the strength to be up there, but I don't think he has quite what it takes to win. Another man I purposely did not mention was Kristoff who can possibly sprint for a decent placing but I find chances to be slim that he will be in the selection of riders that will fight for the win in Oudenaarde. If he is, that should be quite a big group and it sounds very unlikely to me.
Also the route is slightly altered (again) before this year's race, with supposedly shorter flat sections in the finale of the race. I'd say it's in favour of Cancellara and Sagan definitely.
A random coincidence I found about Stannard while researching his Roubaix results btw, he has competed three times. Once he was out of time and the other two times he finished 51st, he's obviously in better shape this season. I don't really see him being the strongest on the french cobbles though. The strongest doesn't necessarily always win though, so it doesn't mean I count him out completely, but I think he still has a few things to prove on the actual cobbled sections to convince me
Also I don't think winning Flanders and Roubaix demands any more of a rider than simply competing for the win in both. They are quite different races which is why only the exceptionally good riders can win both in the same season, but Cancellara is definitely of that caliber, and has all the qualities still. I simply just don't think he is the biggest favourite this year though. It's close, but he showed last year that it's not so easy to ride everyone off his wheel there. He can catch them off guard and do it early, but if someone strong grabs his wheel, it might not be so easy. The way I see it Cancellara can lose the Roubaix either on the Velodrome in a sprint or by having everyone look at him as some escapegroup increase their gap to take the win. The latter would create a much more open race (and has done before, Vansummeren won that way in 2011), but would most likely also make it harder for the other pre-race favourites to take the win as Cancellara would be likely to respond to their attacks aswell.
Edited by marble on 05-03-2014 00:26
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