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2013 Stat Increases / Decreases / Training
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| CountArach |
Posted on 26-10-2012 13:18
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With that the sprinters who are out of power even from a speed bump will become with a bit of money as good as them and going over hills requires still I think some okish mountain stat. A sprinter with 55 in mountain but 70 in hills won't get better over a hill as someone with 60 and 65 I think or at least I feel.
That isn't how the game works. If it is a stage that uses 100% of the hill stat (ie - almost any stage where a sprinter can still win) then the mountain stat has no effect at all. The only difference would be that at the end of a GT a rider with a higher mountain stat will be less tired than one with a weak mountain stat and even then the high recovery bonus for sprinters means that this isn't really an issue.
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| Roman |
Posted on 26-10-2012 14:09
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Well, you have a point here, Rin. But I think that benefits, which will bring this low-cost-high-reward training to star riders like Bewley, Madrazo or Bakelants are quite negligible in compare with rewards for riders like Mohs, Lo Cicero or Stannard. First group of riders is winning already right now, but the second group thankfully to this training will have way stronger chances of taking more points in races all season long.
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| SotD |
Posted on 26-10-2012 14:47
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Training
The main training system remains the same, however there is a new addition. If you want to train a stat of a rider that is more than 10 values worse than the rider's average it will only cost 100,000 - no matter what his average actually is.
e.g. If a rider has an avergae of 74 and a flat stat of 62, it will cost just 100k to increase that flat stat to 63
This is quite interesting, and will make for some more complete TOP TOP riders I think...
Sam Bewley will be able to go from 69MO to 71MO for just 200K.
Angel Madrazo will be able to go from 68FL to 70FL for just 200K, and from 61SPR to 71SPR for just 1mio.
This needs a bit of rethinking I think. Madrazo will be almost unbeatable in the spanish races for 1,2mio I think
A lot of Top GC riders with a low sprint stat can be equalled out with the strong finishers for very little money. I'm not so sure that is a good idea.
Can SN or anyone else let me know whether I have missed something here?
If Contador hadn't been too old to train I would have spent 1,5-2mio on making him the best spanish finisher of the GT riders.
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| SotD |
Posted on 26-10-2012 15:05
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Why should he do this?
Bewley will never win a mountain stage and 69 is definitely enough to survive the time limit.
And for every single stage, Bewley has chances to win the mountain stat has zero influence.
And the hill stat is already too high to take profit from the cheap prize.
Why wouldn't you? In the past 200K was worthless in the off season. Now you can possibly make Bewley survive a stage he would normally struggle in. The difference between 69 and 71 probably won't change that much, but it might mean the difference between him being at the back of a 30 man peloton, and to be in the middle. And if he is in the middle, then he will win the sprint, while at the back, he might struggle to catch a rider such as Valverde who is in the front.
So on the short term he would be a better rider, for peanuts.
A rider such as Mikhail Ignatiev who is shit at mountains could become 69MO for 300K. That is also a significant change to his capabilities. And what better way should you use such limited resources?
Like someone else said these riders aren't the main issue, but the sprinters with a low mountain or hill stat can improve A LOT by very limited money.
Anthony Lavoine will be 62MO and 62HI in a heartbeat if this will carry on. For 700K btw. No way in hell could I make him a better rider for 700K before. And that is a bit sad I think. In the last off season I paid some extra cash to go for sprinters such as Tzortsakis and Keukeleire because they will end up being decent climbers and good hilly sprinters. 80-82sprint and 65-68 hill stat. That is good at this point. But if every single 83 sprinter is suddently 62 MO and HI for less than 1mil, then those backup stats, which I found appealing are worthless.
And even worse with the fast GT riders such as Valverde. He is very interesting right now because of his 71Sprint stat. And that is probably the best reason why someone should buy him atm. Can you see him battleing Madrazo who is suddenly 70FL and 70SPR? Thos trainings will only cost 1,1mil and make him superhuman. More than he already is.
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 26-10-2012 15:23
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I use OpenOffice, and the sheets look like this: https://i.imgur.co... Macros are enabled.
Do you know whats happening here, SN?
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| viking90 |
Posted on 26-10-2012 15:29
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SportingNonsense wrote:
If a rider only maxed out during the 2012 season, then he is not eligible to be trained - as his stats have already improved inbetween the 2012 and 2013 seasons.
Only riders born in 1983 or later are able to be trained - 1984 next year I guess?
In other words Hoogerland can´t get any better then he´s right now? 
He was maxed out last year and is born in 1983... |
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| ANFreeman |
Posted on 26-10-2012 15:54
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DubbelDekker wrote:
I use OpenOffice, and the sheets look like this: https://i.imgur.co... Macros are enabled.
Do you know whats happening here, SN?
Same happened to mine, I input the numbers manually. Ill upload the ODT file when I can 
[url=https://pcmdaily.com/messages.php?msg_send=19438]-Requests for Man-Game 2014 jerseys are OPEN!
Click to request!-[/url] |
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| jph27 |
Posted on 26-10-2012 16:05
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Anyone prepared to email this over for me? If they could it would be very useful, as once again I can't get WinRar working.  |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 08:32
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| jph27 |
Posted on 26-10-2012 16:17
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Downloaded WinZip and got it working at the second attempt. Have the file now. |
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| OlegTinkov |
Posted on 26-10-2012 16:22
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https://www.viewdocsonline.com/documen...ent/szyx1p (you can scroll Slide or watch it in Tile mode)
1/2 Fighter
3/4 Hills
5/6 Stage Race
7/8 Sprinter
9/10 Time Trial
11/12 Cobbles
13/14 Classics
15/16 Climberv1
17/18 Climberv2
19/20 Track-Sprint
21/22 Track-TT
23/24 Decreases
25/26 Training
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| OlegTinkov |
Posted on 26-10-2012 16:23
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or export it as pdf or download it so you dont have to use winRar
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 26-10-2012 16:30
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@jph27; this is a very good open-source program that unzips pretty much anything: https://www.7-zip....
It's the VLC player of archiving.
@ANF; would be great, thanks.
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 26-10-2012 17:36
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I will just remind people that once the stat goes above 65, then the cost to train that stat returns to the price of "individual stat" not the "difference between average and stat"
Ie, Average 78
Flat 64 -> 65 : Cost 100,000
Flat 65 -> 66 : Cost 100,000
Flat 66 -> 67 : Cost 200,000 (or whatever the cost is).
Flat 67 -> 68 : Cost 300,000 (as above)
Flat 68 -> 69 : Cost as average (ie, a lot)
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 26-10-2012 17:39
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And whilst you think that there is area for abuse around the idea, you have to weigh up the idea:
Is improving, for example, as sprinter's mountain/hill stat up to 65 from say 58, reall worth that 700k, when you could improve their flat or sprint stat by that amount. Which will have the greater impact?
It's not about making great riders even better, or making ok riders great. It's about making riders who have 78 mountain and an average of say 74, who have a flat of 58 or 60ish able to actually not waste energy on the flat before they even get to a mountain.
[url=cleavercycling.co.uk] [/url] |
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 26-10-2012 17:46
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rjc_43 wrote:
I will just remind people that once the stat goes above 65, then the cost to train that stat returns to the price of "individual stat" not the "difference between average and stat"
OK - I was thinking much the same as SotD when reading it - file doesn't make that clear, but like it better with the 65 limit.
Edited by fenian_1234 on 26-10-2012 17:47
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| SotD |
Posted on 26-10-2012 17:52
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But still I think we will see top top riders primarily getting much better. Like Madrazo getting 70 flat for almost free, and 65 sprint, which means he can now compete in a semiflat stage sprint.
And people who bought riders with 78MO and 58-59FL got them at a low wage because they sucked in exactly that stat. I would never buy a cllimber with less than 65FL. Those riders tend to be more expensive than a rider with similar climbing stats but 58FL. If you can now make that 78MO rider a 65FL rider for 700K budget money, and my climber cost 90K wage because he was already that "good" it seems to be a a bad idea (I think. I have a danish word called skævvridning, but I can't find a english word for it.)
Fx. Moschella is a shit rider because he has 58 flat stat, hence nobody wanted him and he is on a 50K wage eventhough he will become 79MO. His manager can train him to 63FL for 500K next season, and that is a significant increase. Had he been able to get 62FL (for instance) or 78MO and 63FL I'm rather sure that he wouldn't have went as a 50K domestique.
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 26-10-2012 17:59
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It'll cost Madrazo according to his average to increase his flat stat if I'm reading right - which won't be cheap.
Second point is a fair one I think for riders who've already been signed - sometimes the reason they've gone so cheap is because of these crappy secondary stats - perhaps limit the increases to riders newly signed this year? |
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| beagle |
Posted on 26-10-2012 18:13
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Every change will have its own fans abd haters.
In my case I can benefit from this change, as Mohs can become competitive sprinter not only in P(CT). On the other side, second change with changing AVG caused me big headache because of Holloway. I didn´t give him "sprint" stat boost, because I was worried about his high AVG level after that (low amount of race days). But after that change AVG of sprinters went significantly down in general. As a result, Holloway has only 80 sprint now and possible training on higher level would be a nightmare.
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| rjc_43 |
Posted on 26-10-2012 18:52
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fenian_1234 wrote:
Second point is a fair one I think for riders who've already been signed - sometimes the reason they've gone so cheap is because of these crappy secondary stats - perhaps limit the increases to riders newly signed this year?
To SotD and Fenian,
Yes, I take your point that a domestique who is hired by one because he could potentially get 78 mountain (and 58 flat) and only costs 50,000 might well be overlooked by yourselves. However, if they are overlooked by everyone, they'd never even get 78 mountain.
You have to remember that their use is exceptionally limited, even when they get to 78 mountain (after 3 full seasons, that's currently 4 and a half years in real life terms), and then they have to wait another full season before they can be trained.
If someone is willing to wait THAT long to then train someone, who is still not that great, upto 65 flat - which will still cost a fair amount, and usually the riders average is lowish (like 72) which then means at 62 flat, the average kicks in. Well, it's a lot of money to make a one-use rider into a bit better.
And plus, if one person looks at a shit rider (who could potentially get a 75-76 stat in something) and see that they could train their weakness to an adequate level to be useful, well, some other manager will also probably see that. And so the price will probably go up.
I seriously think you guys are over-thinking the importance of this.
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| SotD |
Posted on 26-10-2012 19:08
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The problem isn't the talents imo. We can all just go for those now since we can train them. The problem is the current sprinters, climbers and so on.
There is a real possibility that some (few) riders can gain A LOT from this, and have a far too low wage according to their new capabilities.
You can turn the thing the other way around rjc. The people who bought these riders, knew they sucked. That was why they could get them at a low wage. Because no one else wanted to. If the other managers knew what they could potentially do with the riders all of a sudden, I doubt they would have been 50K domestiques.
Some riders that people have come to fairly easy can now be quite good, while other riders with the same qualities are worth 4x as much in wages.
I don't really see the point in making it easier to change a low stat to a semigood stat for a minimum amount of money.
A simple way to make this more "eatable" would be to put an interest rate on each time you train him an extra similar stat.
So when I train Lavoine in mountains the first stat cost 100K, the second cost 150K, the next 250K, the next 400K...
That would mean that he would go from 59MO to 63MO for 900K instead of 400K. It would make sure certain teams didn't inflate a specific stat with eg. +10. That would be very costly. But it would still be rather affordable to make a shitty flat rider better. No one says you have to make him go from 58 to 65 in one season. No one else climbs that much in one seasons training.
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