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Mountains and the peloton
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| 9-Ball |
Posted on 12-07-2012 03:10
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Domestique
Posts: 477
Joined: 16-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I keep testing this and still haven't encountered any (really) odd results. Just ran the Giro stage from Busto Arsizio to Lecco Pian dei Resinelli with random teams (Liquigas, Cofidis, Saxo, Euskaltel, Ag2r, Lotto and others) so limited in terms of big GC names but I came up with the following results.
Nothing wildly aberrational here.
I've run many TDF mountain stages since installing 1.1.0.3 and about a half-dozen since installed 1.2.0.0, mostly with default teams and still haven't seen anything bizarre or approaching it. I don't know if it's the OfficalReleaseRealName db I'm using or not but in terms of mountain stages things are about right so far. I'm sure I'll break this when I start playing with stats tonight. 
As for flat/sprint stages, that's a bit more murky. I just finished a stage 3 of the TDF (Rouen-Saint Quinten) with default teams, playing as Liquigas. In this instance, the following results apply:
[img-l]https://www.two-stepsahead.com/downloads/s3.png[/img-l]
Here again, the results are both reasonable and reflective of what I see on most sprint stages and in terms of mass-sprint finishes. I do see some oddities in terms of the last 15km and sprint lead-outs. I had a hard time trying to keep Sagan in the mix but that says a lot about his team, possibly. More odd was the presence of numerous GC contenders in the top 20 places till the last 200 meters or so and random attacks with 1-3km to go from the likes of Hushovd, who then also hung around well enough to place 18th. It's hard to maintain a solid train even on max effort. I don't know if this can be fixed with DB tweaks but I'll be trying.
So, all that aside, it seems largely realistic to me - more so than earlier games at this point.
Count, you are correct from what I've read here. The RES stat appears to matter more than before in terms of climbing and more. I'm not sure exactly how yet.
It was eleven more than necessary.
Jacques Anquetil
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| Lachi |
Posted on 12-07-2012 08:28
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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@9-Ball: Could you please clarify.
What DB are you using?
Simulation or 3D?
3D Difficulty?
3D gaming speed? |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 12-07-2012 09:55
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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CountArach wrote:
Wasn't there something posted up a while ago about resistance being far more important than it used to be? I doubt most modded DBs were away of that.
As I said, this was with the OfficialRelease, Cyanide's own DB.
I also want to point out that the results were alright on paper. The right riders won and some minor time gaps were registered. However, that doesn't change the fact that it was actually a bunch sprint between 20 riders despite hard pace from kilometre 0.. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 21-11-2024 19:15
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| MacC |
Posted on 12-07-2012 10:33
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Sprinter
Posts: 1594
Joined: 15-07-2008
PCM$: 700.00
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Hmm, so is it possible to just go back to 1.1.03? |
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| daball |
Posted on 12-07-2012 10:46
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Amateur
Posts: 3
Joined: 17-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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CrueTrue wrote:
CountArach wrote:
Wasn't there something posted up a while ago about resistance being far more important than it used to be? I doubt most modded DBs were away of that.
As I said, this was with the OfficialRelease, Cyanide's own DB.
I also want to point out that the results were alright on paper. The right riders won and some minor time gaps were registered. However, that doesn't change the fact that it was actually a bunch sprint between 20 riders despite hard pace from kilometre 0..
But it was in a single race, not caarer ??? |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 12-07-2012 10:53
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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Yes, and I only tried once (4 mountain stages).
I'm now trying the Tour in career mode hoping for some more spectacular results  |
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| mat4404 |
Posted on 12-07-2012 11:16
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Under 23
Posts: 81
Joined: 05-04-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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CrueTrue wrote:
Yes, and I only tried once (4 mountain stages).
I'm now trying the Tour in career mode hoping for some more spectacular results
You'll get them. Seems good in tours for me. True, once every now and again you have 30 riders together 3k from top of the climb but thats nothing too drastic. Hell we even saw that at the Giro this year. Usually fairly realistic results. Single race mode is another problem entirely.
On the topic of resistance, I posted a few findings in the big first impressions thread. It's really important this year. Intact, I found it to be just as important as the mountain stat itself. As long as you treat it as such, it actually improves the game. Gives more variation. I've found that limiting resistance so a maximum of 78 ensures decent gameplay.
I'm currently editing the youngridercarac files to, amongst other things, reflect the maximum resistance stat. |
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| TDekker |
Posted on 12-07-2012 11:46
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Amateur
Posts: 19
Joined: 03-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Agree with mat4404. If you lower the resistance stats the results is way better and more realistic.
I also have maked the gaps between the best and bad climbers bigger. So now the peloton drops earlier from the favourites. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 12-07-2012 11:55
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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So stage race mode is still broken? I would like to do the Tour only next week with first Daily database...looks like i will have to start the career and sim through to July.
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 12-07-2012 12:27
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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The Daily DB has never really been suited for single races anyway.
I'm at the Tour in career now. Not really getting that much better results, to be honest. I'll upload the results when done. |
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 12-07-2012 16:21
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
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It was slightly better, but still not very entertaining. Keep in mind that I once again tried to set the pace (with RadioShack's best climbers in close to topform) as early as possible,
La Planche des Belles Filles: 27-rider sprint. For the fun of it, I used the dot to attack 1,5 km from the finish line and created a small gap.
Bellegarde-sur-Valserine: 30-rider sprint.
La Tousuirre - Les Sybelles: Slightly better - just 13 riders this time. But after 2 HC climbs with max pace, it's quite disappointing.
Bagneres-de-Luchon: Lots of selection on the last climb, still a 9 rider sprint at the finish.
Peyragudes: 9 rider sprint.
As I said, this is when I set my entire team, except A. Schleck, to the front on the first possible climb and relayed with everyone at between 70 and 80 effort. This does create selection, but somewhat realistically most gain contact again on the downhill.
Usually, there'd be 40-50 riders at the foot of the last mountain. As the race progressed, they'd become less capable of sticking with the best riders. However, as the results also show, the top riders (top 10) were never dropped for real.
Attacks still seem very pointless. I never liked the fact that the attack button is useless. The dot, obviously, is very effective, but it's like your opponents don't really realise you're attacking until a gap is created, so it feels 'wrong'.
In general, there were barely any attacks that 'worked'. Whenever a bunch of riders attacked, they'd be caught by the RadioShack train. Within the last 5 km, when my train had dropped off, no one really attacked. Everyone just rode at a steady pace until the last 1 km where the riders sprint and whoever's strong can create that 20 second gap that makes the results look realistic.
And again, this is with the latest patch and the official database with no changes. Tour de France in career mode on medium difficulty. |
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| 9-Ball |
Posted on 12-07-2012 16:31
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Domestique
Posts: 477
Joined: 16-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Lachi wrote:
@9-Ball: Could you please clarify.
What DB are you using?
Simulation or 3D?
3D Difficulty?
3D gaming speed?
Lachi,
sure, I'm using the following file/settings:
- OfficialReleaseRealName.cdb available in the DL section here and not tweaked yet
- 3D only - I virtually never sim stages
- 3D difficulty level - Hard
- 3D gaming speed - mostly real time but certainly using the accelerated speeds for some flat sections
It was eleven more than necessary.
Jacques Anquetil
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| MacC |
Posted on 12-07-2012 17:11
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Sprinter
Posts: 1594
Joined: 15-07-2008
PCM$: 700.00
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CrueTrue wrote:
It was slightly better, but still not very entertaining. Keep in mind that I once again tried to set the pace (with RadioShack's best climbers in close to topform) as early as possible,
La Planche des Belles Filles: 27-rider sprint. For the fun of it, I used the dot to attack 1,5 km from the finish line and created a small gap.
Bellegarde-sur-Valserine: 30-rider sprint.
La Tousuirre - Les Sybelles: Slightly better - just 13 riders this time. But after 2 HC climbs with max pace, it's quite disappointing.
Bagneres-de-Luchon: Lots of selection on the last climb, still a 9 rider sprint at the finish.
Peyragudes: 9 rider sprint.
As I said, this is when I set my entire team, except A. Schleck, to the front on the first possible climb and relayed with everyone at between 70 and 80 effort. This does create selection, but somewhat realistically most gain contact again on the downhill.
Usually, there'd be 40-50 riders at the foot of the last mountain. As the race progressed, they'd become less capable of sticking with the best riders. However, as the results also show, the top riders (top 10) were never dropped for real.
Attacks still seem very pointless. I never liked the fact that the attack button is useless. The dot, obviously, is very effective, but it's like your opponents don't really realise you're attacking until a gap is created, so it feels 'wrong'.
In general, there were barely any attacks that 'worked'. Whenever a bunch of riders attacked, they'd be caught by the RadioShack train. Within the last 5 km, when my train had dropped off, no one really attacked. Everyone just rode at a steady pace until the last 1 km where the riders sprint and whoever's strong can create that 20 second gap that makes the results look realistic.
And again, this is with the latest patch and the official database with no changes. Tour de France in career mode on medium difficulty.
Boooooooo!!!!
Back to PCM 06 if only there was a functioning database |
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| icksdeh |
Posted on 12-07-2012 17:54
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Amateur
Posts: 15
Joined: 01-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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MacC wrote:Back to PCM 06 if only there was a functioning database
There is. Check the PCM06 section in this forum. |
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| Goldberger |
Posted on 12-07-2012 19:08
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Domestique
Posts: 504
Joined: 14-02-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I don`t understand why cyanide just can`t focus on getting realistic gameplay in the mountains
I mean, how hard can it be? They have had so many editions to get this right now, but it`s always the same.
I want to see riders getting shed from the peleton goddamn it |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 12-07-2012 19:13
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World Champion
Posts: 10891
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Goldberger wrote:
I don`t understand why cyanide just can`t focus on getting realistic gameplay in the mountains
I mean, how hard can it be? They have had so many editions to get this right now, but it`s always the same.
I want to see riders getting shed from the peleton goddamn it
Marginal improvements.
They can't make it all brilliant at once as it's a Sport Game ( every year new edition of the game ) They can't make it all brilliant in one series as there might lack of ideas in future, what they do now is implement few features every game, not a lot - but to make fans coming. And they will do so until something happens ( company ceases to exist, game won't make any profits, bankrupt comapny ). Until then the game will improve gradually and slowly. And Cyanide will focus on improvments that will make them most money - and so the focus was on Armada this year.
Edited by Alakagom on 12-07-2012 19:15
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| PCM rulezz |
Posted on 12-07-2012 19:16
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1467
Joined: 21-05-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Can this problem be fixed with the PCM daily DB?
Winners never quit, quitters never win.
It's difficult not to be happy when you're surrounded by Belgians. - Mark Cavendish
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 12-07-2012 22:43
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8542
Joined: 30-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Alakagom wrote:
Marginal improvements.
A.k.a. Sky ProCycling development methods 
PCM rulezz wrote:
Can this problem be fixed with the PCM daily DB?
The Daily DB has a different stat matrix from the Official DB, so the gameplay might change (not necessarily for good though), but ultimately there isn't much we can do.
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| Ste117 |
Posted on 12-07-2012 23:27
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3684
Joined: 21-02-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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I won the stage to Seraing comfortably with....... Thibaut Pinot, 74 hill stat on normal difficulty in single stage race mode. I think hilly races are less realistic than mountain stages.
I had Casar protecting Pinot, hill stat 75.
MG Team manager Team Ticos Air Costa Rica
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 13-07-2012 07:05
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Ste117 wrote:
I won the stage to Seraing comfortably with....... Thibaut Pinot, 74 hill stat on normal difficulty in single stage race mode. I think hilly races are less realistic than mountain stages.
I had Casar protecting Pinot, hill stat 75.
I fear the stage-race mode is still broken, nobody is able to answer it to me, if it is the case still or not.
Thanks for the observations CrueTrue, i am also starting to do some of them and i have similar outputs so far, i am really disapponted. Even more when many people are delighted how gameplay is fantastic, do they have another game?
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