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CT Draft Discussion
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| Scorchio |
Posted on 30-07-2018 22:53
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2073
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Oh somebody is gonna be so disappointed, Plucinski, that's not how you spell Plu-Bear's name; He's got a contract already you know, quite a famous bloke it turns out. 
Manager of ISA - Hexacta in the MG |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 30-07-2018 22:55
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16431
Joined: 27-07-2011
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Strange to see Mendes without a contract. He only had his first decline this season and at one point was a top puncher in CT! Guess things have really changed in 4 or 5 years as CT is now way more stacked.
He even won won a Volta Portugal stage for me just last year. That's PTHC!
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| redordead |
Posted on 30-07-2018 22:56
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4887
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I wound up with my #1 and my #2 with the last pick  Couldn't resist that 76-76 hill-acc 
Adds some depth to my hill squad next to Pibernik and Seibeb.
"I am a cyclist, I may not be the best, but that is what I strive to be. I may never get there, but I will never quit trying." - Tadej Pogačar
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| knockout |
Posted on 30-07-2018 22:57
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7737
Joined: 21-12-2010
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Spoiler SotD wrote:
Gustavovskiy wrote:
I tend to agree with KO.
You're looking at it as a PT manager, SotD. If you already have a 20 rider squad at the end of transfers, this draft is not going to help you in any way to score more points. In that case it could make sense to help develop a semi-decent domestique.
As a CT manager with 15 riders, where your point per rider ratio is arguably more crucial, I don't think I would be wasting these 2 slots with riders who could at best be decent domestiques in 3-4 seasons. There are imo better options still available of riders who can become more relevant in CT than said half-talents.
Maybe. But I'm trying to look at it from a CT perspective. As a PT manager I don't see a need for 20 "strong" riders. Maybe 15. So I don't see why CT managers should need more than 10. Hence the point with me wanting to develop further for next season being even more critical at CT level.
Also I think you are underestimating the level of the talents available. There are some who would be 3rd tier GC materiale at PT level left, some potential PT level leadout sprinters (I would probably not go for them though, looking at the remaining DB), but even more important there are strong puncheurs in the DB that would be worth more than 50K when maxed - easily. I picked up one of those as level 3 myself at 50K for development reasons only. I would definately do the same at CT level, just at a lower exp level. The talents I can pick up are lieutenaints at best, because I am at PT level, but I can easily spot 5-10 talents who in themselves would be CT level leaders or subtop leaders. And would also work very well at PCT level as cheap helpers.
But I'm also looking at CT as a development league where you want to be at MOST 2 seasons. And if you are there at most 2 seasons I would be looking to develop the hell out of the remaining 7 riders (outside the 6-10 important riders).
I don't see domestiques scoring points at CT level unless they strike luck. It's not like the PT where domestiques are actually important in terms of the overall points haul.
I know that this will be hidden very quickly behind draft reactions but i want to comment on this once more.
I feel we both have a very similar POV on ct teams and the importance of development of riders. I think we both have a similar opinion on how many talents we want to have in our teams. You argued with the importance of developing riders for future success but I'd say my way of looking at it is even more talent focussed than yours because i want to handpick my talents with a look at the future in a higher division and only then will fill up the roster spots with a couple of domestiques while you will take mostly okayish talents left over in the bargain bin when you wait for the draft to pick up two more talents. Take a look at my 2014 ct team and you will find many talents that are very helpful even in PT: Dzamastagic, Lasse Norman Hansen, Andris Vosekalns, Michel Koch, Indulis Bekmanis, Willi Willwohl and Phil Bauhaus were all signed back then. I specifically targetted most of them with a look at their role in higher divisions while i only looked later after i had them secured how many and which domestiques i could still add to complete my team. Sure, you could still be lucky to find one or two of them later but as long as you dont mind taking a second year for promotion you can afford to wait for the support guys in CT because the quality difference between low end doms and top FAs isnt big. Take a look at the cobblers picked in this draft: they are not much worse than those that typically take the 3rd guy role in most ct team and whether you upgrade them to a slightly stronger one often doesnt matter. Why waste the chance at one of the more interesting prospects if you can just wait till now to get one of them? The argument about lesser importance about depth scoring has been brought up already too
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| Sykkel_Freak |
Posted on 30-07-2018 22:57
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2073
Joined: 11-07-2010
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Othman is very good choice. His acceleration should able him to score a few points in the CT 
Still quite a few riders I'm very surprised not getting a contract. Tewelde, La Lavandier, Impey, Shushemoin, Bouglas for example would have been very high on my list if I didn't need certain rider types to complete the squad.
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| knockout |
Posted on 30-07-2018 23:00
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7737
Joined: 21-12-2010
PCM$: 400.00
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redordead wrote:
I wound up with my #1 and my #2 with the last pick Couldn't resist that 76-76 hill-acc
Adds some depth to my hill squad next to Pibernik and Seibeb.
Brilliant pick. For sure the steal of the draft for me.
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 03-12-2024 18:38
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Bot Agent
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Joined: 23.11.09
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| knockout |
Posted on 30-07-2018 23:04
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7737
Joined: 21-12-2010
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ManGame-Admin wrote:
This has been a long time coming for Airidas Videika. A stagiare contract for the ill-fated New Balance team in 2016. A higher profile stagiare contract for Evonik-ELKO last year. And now a full time contract with home team DK Žalgiris.
THANK YOU QUADSAS! Love him and im super glad he gets the chance to level up. Hes a brilliant talent who has a very interestong stat set for a cobbler. Surely gonna find a spot on my short list in future years if you ever let him go
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| sammyt93 |
Posted on 30-07-2018 23:06
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3634
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Bringing back Othman was considered by us but already having 3 other 76 Punchers and us not really focussing on that terrain I couldn't justify another one without a big leader there.
I'm glad he found a home in the draft, and hope he does well in his new colours.
I made the call to go for Doull after the first round had already been completed as he was originally third on my list behind Forcellini but I swapped them around thinking the versatility is more useful to me then bringing back the hill domestique would have been, especially as we aren't really planning on focussing on the hills too much outside of C2HC races given how badly focussing on them seemed to go for us last season.
I am surprised to see Sutty didn't try and reacquire Doull with one of his picks before me though.
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 30-07-2018 23:19
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9100
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knockout wrote:
redordead wrote:
I wound up with my #1 and my #2 with the last pick Couldn't resist that 76-76 hill-acc
Adds some depth to my hill squad next to Pibernik and Seibeb.
Brilliant pick. For sure the steal of the draft for me.
definitely the winner of the draft for me
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| Scorchio |
Posted on 30-07-2018 23:19
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2073
Joined: 14-09-2013
PCM$: 4500.00
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CT managers should hang their collective heads in shame ():
| 1 |  | Daniel Moreno | Iberia - Comunidad Valenciana | 570 | | 2 |  | Pieter Weening | Team Gazelle | 549 | | 3 |  | Gert Steegmans | Banco Nacional de Costa Rica | 536 | | 4 | | Joaquin Rodriguez Oliver | Iberia - Comunidad Valenciana | 502 | | 5 |  | Marco Marzano | Kappa - ENI | 491 | | 6 |  | Thiago Duarte Nardin | Team Gazelle | 483 |
And he is still only 30 years old!
Spoiler With thanks to alexkr00 for maintaining the archive!
Edited by Scorchio on 30-07-2018 23:27
Manager of ISA - Hexacta in the MG |
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| Scorchio |
Posted on 30-07-2018 23:27
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2073
Joined: 14-09-2013
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A risky move to ignore this dude during the transfer window, and then leaving him until round 2 to pick up as he is handy enough to potentially have attracted interest even on a full wage. Pays off for the boys from Andorra though as he was still available when called upon.
Manager of ISA - Hexacta in the MG |
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 31-07-2018 06:50
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11684
Joined: 27-07-2015
PCM$: 1861.50
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Too bad I could not follow the draft live because of it's timing but this is a fantastic addition to the MG and congratulations to the Admins for it's implementation and related tid-bits
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| SotD |
Posted on 31-07-2018 07:09
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World Champion
Posts: 12189
Joined: 29-11-2006
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Scorchio wrote:
CT managers should hang their collective heads in shame ( ):
| 1 | | Daniel Moreno | Iberia - Comunidad Valenciana | 570 | | 2 | | Pieter Weening | Team Gazelle | 549 | | 3 | | Gert Steegmans | Banco Nacional de Costa Rica | 536 | | 4 | | Joaquin Rodriguez Oliver | Iberia - Comunidad Valenciana | 502 | | 5 | | Marco Marzano | Kappa - ENI | 491 | | 6 | | Thiago Duarte Nardin | Team Gazelle | 483 |
And he is still only 30 years old!
Spoiler With thanks to alexkr00 for maintaining the archive!
Yup, very surprising indeed to see Nardin not being picked up. I would have had him on my top 3 easily if it wasn't for me rather listing talents
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| SotD |
Posted on 31-07-2018 07:24
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World Champion
Posts: 12189
Joined: 29-11-2006
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knockout wrote:
Spoiler SotD wrote:
Gustavovskiy wrote:
I tend to agree with KO.
You're looking at it as a PT manager, SotD. If you already have a 20 rider squad at the end of transfers, this draft is not going to help you in any way to score more points. In that case it could make sense to help develop a semi-decent domestique.
As a CT manager with 15 riders, where your point per rider ratio is arguably more crucial, I don't think I would be wasting these 2 slots with riders who could at best be decent domestiques in 3-4 seasons. There are imo better options still available of riders who can become more relevant in CT than said half-talents.
Maybe. But I'm trying to look at it from a CT perspective. As a PT manager I don't see a need for 20 "strong" riders. Maybe 15. So I don't see why CT managers should need more than 10. Hence the point with me wanting to develop further for next season being even more critical at CT level.
Also I think you are underestimating the level of the talents available. There are some who would be 3rd tier GC materiale at PT level left, some potential PT level leadout sprinters (I would probably not go for them though, looking at the remaining DB), but even more important there are strong puncheurs in the DB that would be worth more than 50K when maxed - easily. I picked up one of those as level 3 myself at 50K for development reasons only. I would definately do the same at CT level, just at a lower exp level. The talents I can pick up are lieutenaints at best, because I am at PT level, but I can easily spot 5-10 talents who in themselves would be CT level leaders or subtop leaders. And would also work very well at PCT level as cheap helpers.
But I'm also looking at CT as a development league where you want to be at MOST 2 seasons. And if you are there at most 2 seasons I would be looking to develop the hell out of the remaining 7 riders (outside the 6-10 important riders).
I don't see domestiques scoring points at CT level unless they strike luck. It's not like the PT where domestiques are actually important in terms of the overall points haul.
I know that this will be hidden very quickly behind draft reactions but i want to comment on this once more.
I feel we both have a very similar POV on ct teams and the importance of development of riders. I think we both have a similar opinion on how many talents we want to have in our teams. You argued with the importance of developing riders for future success but I'd say my way of looking at it is even more talent focussed than yours because i want to handpick my talents with a look at the future in a higher division and only then will fill up the roster spots with a couple of domestiques while you will take mostly okayish talents left over in the bargain bin when you wait for the draft to pick up two more talents. Take a look at my 2014 ct team and you will find many talents that are very helpful even in PT: Dzamastagic, Lasse Norman Hansen, Andris Vosekalns, Michel Koch, Indulis Bekmanis, Willi Willwohl and Phil Bauhaus were all signed back then. I specifically targetted most of them with a look at their role in higher divisions while i only looked later after i had them secured how many and which domestiques i could still add to complete my team. Sure, you could still be lucky to find one or two of them later but as long as you dont mind taking a second year for promotion you can afford to wait for the support guys in CT because the quality difference between low end doms and top FAs isnt big. Take a look at the cobblers picked in this draft: they are not much worse than those that typically take the 3rd guy role in most ct team and whether you upgrade them to a slightly stronger one often doesnt matter. Why waste the chance at one of the more interesting prospects if you can just wait till now to get one of them? The argument about lesser importance about depth scoring has been brought up already too
I would likely go for one of 2 approaches if at CT level (as a newly founded team).
Go for 2 good talents (100-120K wages) or go for 3-4 fairly good (50-65K), and then sign as much quality as humanly possible. I would also completely ignore atleast one aspect of the season, or maybe pick one bargain, who could hunt for some random points in that area (could be a cobbler).
Then I would pick up the best remaining talents (in this season) in the draft to build for the future, and because I have the opportunity to develop riders quickly. Maybe even want to look at who will develop to become the best within the U25 category to have some added value (Like I originally did with Lecuisinier, Vasyliv and Coquard, but on a lower scale). Obviously with PCT or maybe even PT in mind already. Also because, that if thing doesn't work out they represent an interesting resale-value.
So I don't think we are disagreeing on how to build the team (not looking at the draft). The CT is a perfect time to plan the long term shuffle, but it will need to be smart, so you don't end up with having 8 talents on level 4 at PCT level, so you can't possibly level them up. So too many talents is not an option, hence picking the best ones up late would be my preferred option, over going for too many early on.
I think that signing 7 talents, like you did, might be a stretch if the plan is to go up immidiately, and staying in the CT for 2 seasons doesn't seem like a viable solution to me, if it can be avoided. You simply lack the wage cap to further plan I think. Also you risk that riders who actually did perform, and you want to keep will ask for too high a fee to be acceptable at CT level.
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 31-07-2018 08:47
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2934
Joined: 09-05-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Scorchio wrote:
CT managers should hang their collective heads in shame ( ):
| 1 | | Daniel Moreno | Iberia - Comunidad Valenciana | 570 | | 2 | | Pieter Weening | Team Gazelle | 549 | | 3 | | Gert Steegmans | Banco Nacional de Costa Rica | 536 | | 4 | | Joaquin Rodriguez Oliver | Iberia - Comunidad Valenciana | 502 | | 5 | | Marco Marzano | Kappa - ENI | 491 | | 6 | | Thiago Duarte Nardin | Team Gazelle | 483 |
And he is still only 30 years old!
Spoiler With thanks to alexkr00 for maintaining the archive!
Shame that Ripley had to quit the Man-Game as he'd have been signed in the transfer window.
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| the_hoyle |
Posted on 31-07-2018 22:01
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7651
Joined: 28-05-2009
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I missed day two of the draft, but happy to bring in Thomson as a development rider. Future cobbles domestique is how I saw him.
Completely missed Doull and I am gutted about that as it would have been good to have him on the team. Good to see Barbari get a ride after a late release from the team
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