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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 11-06-2013 00:34
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atlanta wrote:
All im gonna say if Froome was spanish and dint ride for Sky he'd be loved,
Quite the contrary. Had this been a Spanish rider (or of any nationality that's historically more 'dirty' than the Brits), he'd have been lynched long ago. |
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| jacobjc88 |
Posted on 11-06-2013 01:19
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What if Froome was from Kazaksthan Oo
Then no one would defend him, but its only natural that the british people defend their "hero" so would everyone else (more or less). As long as he hasn't delivered a positive test, you can't blame him for anything. I believe he is one of the most tested riders in cycling if the not the most tested rider in the entire peloton. But that still doesn't mean I believe his is clean, I'm just saying.
Edited by jacobjc88 on 11-06-2013 01:20
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| cio93 |
Posted on 11-06-2013 01:23
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jacobjc88 wrote:
I believe he is one of the most tested riders in cycling if the not the most tested rider in the entire peloton.
Nothing personal, but that's already a signature quote. With (hopefully) the same sustainability in this case.
Edited by cio93 on 11-06-2013 01:25
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 28-11-2024 17:57
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 11-06-2013 01:28
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cio93 wrote:
jacobjc88 wrote:
I believe he is one of the most tested riders in cycling if the not the most tested rider in the entire peloton.
Nothing personal, but that's already a signature quote. With (hopefully) the same sustainability in this case.
I know. I think that was the first thing I said as a noob on the forum for Amrstrong defense. 
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Neillster |
Posted on 11-06-2013 01:42
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I am not one of the cynics who believes that cycling is rife with a drug problem, yet nor am I one who is naive enough to say that there is no drug problem in cycling. The very recent cases of Di Luca and Santambrogio are evidence enough for that.
However, surely the case of Santambrogio is also to a certain extent proof that drug use is not rife if a rider can improve that dramatically over a short period with the use of drugs, then surely if everyone was using drugs, Mauro's use wouldn't have made as much of an impact as it did.
Yet this does bring into question the meteoric rise of other stars, in particular a rider like Chris Froome. Yet surely, one would like to hope that the UCI have not also been blind and suspicious just as most of those who've posted here are, and that Froome is under close scrutiny and testing.
As for there being a drug culture at Sky, whilst I wouldn't rule it out completely, with riders developing really well under their system, I sincerely hop that this is not the case.
And indeed, many of the riders who have improved has not been as strange. Richie Porte showed serious promise at Saxobank, and after 2 seasons at Sky is continuing that progress. Uran likewise. Henao did rather come out of the blue, but he did have a reputation for being a quality climber.
Also Kiryienka has done very well under the Sky system, but this is possibly more of a change of style as much as anything. Rather than getting involved in breakaways, he is using the power he has shown in the past in the break to power the Sky train.
Yet, I would surely like to think that with a development team as dedicated to the riders as there is at Sky, coupled with the state of the art technology and the micro-managing of the riders day to day lives, I hope that all of these riders are genuine professionals working for the good of the sport.
And I do believe (possibly because I want to) that they are. If I am proved wrong I will accept it and quite happily throw the book at them. But till such a point, is a man not innocent. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 11-06-2013 06:38
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How come they're still very random riders when it comes to classics, but the core of their grand tours team has improved massively over a couple of years ? |
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| krisa |
Posted on 11-06-2013 06:41
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Kiryinka was already good at movistar I must say
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 11-06-2013 07:20
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atlanta wrote:
Guys you dint think i was being racist with that comment did you? because im nit causing offense to our spanish freiends i did not men it that way. It just seems alot anti british even Cav is hated bye most on Cyclingnews, im not on about PCM. It just seems Contador fans are all shouting the gobs off that he can beat Froome for doping, yet how do we know that this is Contadors new level(still a good level ovi), By the way im only saying an opinion not meant to be offesive. 
Cav is hated (at least by me), because he is biggest prick in cycling...
Also my Wiggo, Froome and Sky suspicion has nothing to do with fact that they are british.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 11-06-2013 07:26
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Riders like Kiryenka, Uran or EBH and few more are not my problem i have with Sky. The incredible trio of Wiggins, Froome and Thomas is my problem. I think Thomas will podium the Tour in three years...
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 11-06-2013 08:04
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Aquarius wrote:
How come they're still very random riders when it comes to classics, but the core of their grand tours team has improved massively over a couple of years ?
Sky's aim was 'to win the Tour within 5 years with a Brittish rider'. (2010)
Not to win the Giro with a Colombian.
Or win Roubaix with a Norwegian.
Edited by Spilak23 on 11-06-2013 08:05
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 11-06-2013 08:26
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Aquarius wrote:
How come they're still very random riders when it comes to classics, but the core of their grand tours team has improved massively over a couple of years ?
I'd say a lot of that is down to the nature of the races. Classics are always a lot more open and random (as long as Mapei weren't aoround). One Day races are ridden to the limit with everyone finishing flat out dead, and that makes them almost impossible to singly control and tear apart.
A GT is a measured effort over three weeks, with days of rest and hiding. It's a lot easier to control that type of race where you don't ever have to win a stage to take the GC.
I hope you get what i mean 
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| GD |
Posted on 11-06-2013 08:41
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This suspicion on wiggo I find very annoying, he has always been an incredible cyclist and his switch of focus from track to road with the weight loss seems like very good reasoning for his performances. It is well known that his bio-passport is also in support of this
On the froome front it does seem suspicious but those who say he came out of nowhere clearly need to do their homework. He joined cycling relatively late on but in 2008 in his first year as a pro he rode with Barloworld in TdF and finished 11th in the Young Riders Classement so he did show promise immediatley
However due to his recurring and persistent Bilharzia he was never able to properly train continously and so had very on/off results.
Still his improvements do seem incredible but only time will tell whether this is just massive natural talent finally able to be honed or if it is drug assisted.
On the Dr Leidermann front it is very weird but how many team doctors are there that we can't accuse due to past employment. Also lots seem to be quoting the article about him quitting rabobank(?) after a change in policy, which INCLUDED tougher doping rules, this doesn't mean this was why he left, it may have been related to other changes - to say it was about the doping is very presumptuous.
Also in Briton the culture about doping is very very different, no-one would cheer after a convicted doper like most other nationalities would do except in the case of those who show remorse and actively try to help clean up the sport (Millar) which is another reason why I feel the british team sky boys aren't doping as they were brought up in the british track cycling system and have always been very good in that scene. I should point out I don't count froome in this.
As for the other riders EBH, Kriyienka, Knees etc had already established themselves before sky as being solid riders; in the case of EBH much more than that.
A final small point I would make is that the Sky team is very strong and training with some of the best in the world forces you to push the final bit; imagine the rivalry between Porte, Froome, Wiggo, Uran & Henao on climbs, they will be striving to prove themselves and push each other harder than Contador or Nibali or Rodriguez will get pushed by any of their team mates.
Oh and yeah I'm british so most of you will probably just ignore all that I've said  |
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| roturn |
Posted on 11-06-2013 08:57
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Not have the time to comment on all of it. But some thoughts.
12th! in the Youth Ranking (of just 22 riders) with more than 2h behind Schleck!
This would mean he is closer to the last than the first here.
84th in the GC btw.
And even though you find it annoying there is enough reason to be suspicious when a rider starts to be pretty dominant.
And the culture thing. Quite sure it`s like this in quite a lot countries.
Edited by roturn on 11-06-2013 08:58
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| Kentaurus |
Posted on 11-06-2013 09:23
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I'm not going to quote the wall from GD, but I think it certainly looked bad last year, where Britain was in the spotlight from the Olympics and the team clearly needed to be spectacular. So I'm uncertain, however;
I do remember reading somewhere that Wiggins new trainer was trying to change the fitness style of cycling, which always has focused on peaking for races. Instead he was trying to incorporate more of an always at peak style which basically every other sport uses. I've never understood the point of this peaking concept, its not common at all in America. And I think they have the right plan, which could also give better results.
(I'll look for the article)..
EDIT: Found https://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/ar...phy-34204/
Edited by Kentaurus on 11-06-2013 09:28
AZTECA - NBCSN  |
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| GD |
Posted on 11-06-2013 09:24
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hadn't realised there was only 22 in the young riders but for first year professional (so only signed for 6 or so months at this stage) this is still showing promise.
Yes I find it annoying about accusations on wiggo because he has shown through out his career that he is very talented and his rise is not sudden in that sense, just sudden within the road scene instead of track. Wiggo has always been great at TT style riding from the Pursuit and he is most certainly not dominant in climbing.
It is certainly not the case in Spain and Italy with the culture
What annoys me most is the that some people claim to KNOW sky are doping despite no real evidence, often what is claimed to be evidence is because people in general are terrible at seeing their own logical fallacies; the fact that there are religious people in this fay and age proves that.
And know I don't claim to KNOW sky are clean, and I am suspicious of certain riders, but until there is evidence to prove they aren't clean then I will assume that they are rather than arrogantly stating as fact that my gut must be correct. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 11-06-2013 09:28
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GD wrote:
rather than arrogantly stating as fact that my gut must be correct.
You might want to read the preceding several thousand posts. There is a lot of compelling "evidence" that Sky is doped
EDIT: Better now?
Edited by TheManxMissile on 11-06-2013 09:38
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 11-06-2013 09:32
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Like what, Manx? Name one thing that'd hold up in court. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 11-06-2013 09:34
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CrueTrue wrote:
Like what, Manx? Name one thing that'd hold up in court.
Should clarify on the point. Didn't mean CAS, more that quite a lot of the "evidence" is not overly different from various other cases (minus the confessions)... And no i cannot be specific i'm not an expert on this subject. Blame isso for crushing my soul
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| Kentaurus |
Posted on 11-06-2013 09:35
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CrueTrue wrote:
Like what, Manx? Name one thing that'd hold up in court.
That was my thought...if anything would hold up in court, it would already be there...
AZTECA - NBCSN |
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| GD |
Posted on 11-06-2013 10:00
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I have read the preceding pages and that was what my comment on fallacies was regarding, most of this "compelling evidence" is nothing of the sort
So no, not better now
Edited by GD on 11-06-2013 10:01
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
