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ICL17 - General | Development
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 14:13
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| The Rider |
Posted on 30-06-2016 09:51
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4543
Joined: 29-02-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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That means the age of decline has been increased (from the number to the left of the + column).
Bikex - Why is Contador on such a low wage?!! Do we really want to be able to renew GT winning riders at less than 1000? |
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 30-06-2016 09:54
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World Champion
Posts: 11392
Joined: 17-12-2014
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*Searches frantically for someone to make us less crap*
Say, that Nairo someone doesn't look bad...
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
2x  x2 |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 30-06-2016 10:02
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World Champion
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Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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The Rider wrote:
That means the age of decline has been increased (from the number to the left of the + column).
Bikex - Why is Contador on such a low wage?!! Do we really want to be able to renew GT winning riders at less than 1000?
He almost retired, so he can't really make high demands to his team 
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 30-06-2016 10:06
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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What, GT winning rider? He didn't win a GT last season.  He had a shit season, even missing Giro podium. Contrary to Froome and Nibali who are 1 & 2 in WT ranking and have won big time. I also used Mediator on him and he's old, so old.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 30-06-2016 11:00
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Actually, I changed my mind. It is kinda very low compared to other top riders. Age shouldn't matter because you used a potion on him so he's not on decline age yet.
Furthermore, I still don't agree with the pass Bikex gave Contador regarding his retirement. I think everyone should get the option to prevent a rider from retiring, for example by paying him a higher wage (which would also solve The Rider's complaint).
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 30-06-2016 11:06
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
Actually, I changed my mind. It is kinda very low compared to other top riders. Age shouldn't matter because you used a potion on him so he's not on decline age yet.
Again, I used to mediator on him, previous wage was already below 1000 last season(!!), have high loyalty and he had a really shit seaosn (more than 1k points less than Froome and Nibali). That said I take it how it is and I was surprised at low wage too. Lucky me.
Furthermore, I still don't agree with the pass Bikex gave Contador regarding his retirement. I think everyone should get the option to prevent a rider from retiring, for example by paying him a higher wage (which would also solve The Rider's complaint).
Well that's too bad for you, you should have said something when the issue was mentioned first and not complain a few weeks later 
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 30-06-2016 11:10
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Team Leader
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Also I tried to sneak a low wage past Chavenal due to his old age and decline but he also ended up on a much higher wage than he deserved (almost as much as De Gendt) so I don't really see how Contador can be so low given he hasn't even declined yet.
EDIT: Was Zabel'd and didn't see the mediator, etc. Nevermind
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 30-06-2016 11:18
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
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Shonak wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
Actually, I changed my mind. It is kinda very low compared to other top riders. Age shouldn't matter because you used a potion on him so he's not on decline age yet.
Again, I used to mediator on him, previous wage was already below 1000 last season(!!), have high loyalty and he had a really shit seaosn (more than 1k points less than Froome and Nibali). That said I take it how it is and I was surprised at low wage too. Lucky me.
Furthermore, I still don't agree with the pass Bikex gave Contador regarding his retirement. I think everyone should get the option to prevent a rider from retiring, for example by paying him a higher wage (which would also solve The Rider's complaint).
Well that's too bad for you, you should have said something when the issue was mentioned first and not complain a few weeks later
I went to quote my post, but apparently it didn't come through. Personaly I don't think any rider should be forced in retirement while he's not a FA.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| The Rider |
Posted on 30-06-2016 11:19
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4543
Joined: 29-02-2012
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I used 4 mediators on Froome and he still wouldn't accept less than 1490 - diva!
No regrets though, considering how last season went I think 1650 is a very fair price. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 30-06-2016 11:21
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World Champion
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Mediator only does 5-15, which is irrelevant when used on star riders.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 30-06-2016 11:22
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Directeur Sportif
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I don´t get why you are complaining about Contadors wage? If the wage of your riders demands are too high in comparison to his then just let them go to FA? There is just no point of complaining, especially if you look at who Shonak let go (most likely in terms of wages) in Stybar and JRod...I call that good managing by Shonak combined with some luck with demands, no need for offense against him or bikex in my opinion!
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 30-06-2016 11:27
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World Champion
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Croatia14 wrote:
I don´t get why you are complaining about Contadors wage? If the wage of your riders demands are too high in comparison to his then just let them go to FA? There is just no point of complaining, especially if you look at who Shonak let go (most likely in terms of wages) in Stybar and JRod...I call that good managing by Shonak combined with some luck with demands, no need for offense against him or bikex in my opinion!
I don't think anyone is giving offence to either Shonak or Bikex? Both are respected members of this community and have been in several games before this one, so I think they can handle this feedback. If we can't point out potential inaccuracies in the system that need to be discussed, what's the whole point of having a discussion thread?
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 30-06-2016 11:36
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
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Ollfardh wrote:
Mediator only does 5-15, which is irrelevant when used on star riders.
I don't understand. I think I used 7 mediator on Contador and I imagine it helped to some deal?
I have said before the transfer season that I thought the wages were too low and Bikex actually increased them he mentioned. maybe the separatation of budget & wage cap (like MG) could help in future seasons?
The reason why Contador is at 775 has multiple factors that I have mentioned. One more I'd like to add: Contador is fairly unloved (back in season 1 I was the only one to bid on him) and no steal attempts have ever been attempted on him. After all, I wouldn't either: He is too old, soon to decline and there have been "flashier" options on the market every year. It's basically the result of very low demand for Contador.
So I started out at very, very low wage (FA Market prices of other big riders: Nibs 1.950? Froome over 2k?). Even second-tier climbers like Bardet and Barguil go for higher sums than Contador initially went (1.200-1.400?). Why wouldn't it be fair that this low demand goes into the calcuations of the prices long-term?
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 30-06-2016 11:44
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World Champion
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Ah, I though you only used 1 mediator, my bad
I can see why Contador's price is so low, but I still think the difference is too big. If the age or the age of decline should have an impact on wages, I think the potion of youth you used should be included so the system doesn't treat him as a normal 35 year old. Other than that, your explanation was completely satisfactory!
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 30-06-2016 11:55
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
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I don't know bikex alrogithm but considering his excel magic skills I'm pretty sure he's got that covered this way. I agree that age should play a little factor and majority of wage should be determined by stats, success and demand. Other smaller influences probably are mediator bonus, loyalty and maybe even nationality?
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| knockout |
Posted on 30-06-2016 12:29
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7735
Joined: 21-12-2010
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Not sure if I commented on this before but here we go:
I totally agree that leader wages are way too low.
*insert argumentation which riders are too low and why this or that rider might (not) be underpaid*
How to solve this issue:
1) raise leader's demands more. This has been discussed a lot already and i think it would be best if we would slowly introduce this even more.
2) Lower min wages for domestiques. A basic decision every manager should have to make is whether to go for top stars or depth. Let's take Contador as an example. If you would want to replace him by 3 riders having the same wage (775) combined then you can not even get Jeremy Roy (73TT,71HI,70MO), Tim Declerc (74CB) and Baptiste Planckaert (74SP) as the min wages of the 3 is slightly higher.
I realize that the mediator came into play and stuff but still that's the point: The difference in min wage is way too low.
You can get a top 3 rider on every terrain for 1000 in renewals while an average CT domestique demands 1/3 of that. I know its unfair to compare with MG but there the superstars demand about 1M in renewals (depending on various factors) but the average CT domestique only 1/20 of that.
We don't need to go that far but we should at least go a bit closer to that 
If we cut down the min wages for domestiques / everyone under 75 AVG then teams will have more money which could lead to more steal attempts and thus higher superstar wages in general. Or even if not it will work as a mechanic to counter increased leader wages due to excel formulas in the next seasons
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| krisa |
Posted on 30-06-2016 14:07
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3962
Joined: 12-04-2011
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@bikex , @knockout: I love it like it is. Otherwhise it would become impossible to own riders like Aru in CT.
In my opinion it's good that there is something like minumum wages. And I don't feel there should be a bigger difference between domnestiques and leaders. With this money everybody has the chance to pick the leader he wants, some decent domnestiques and 1-4 crap riders to fill the team. So if leaders wages will become higher I will have to make 1-2 domnestiques free agent and fill the spot with crap.
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| jaxika |
Posted on 30-06-2016 14:35
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Classics Specialist
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I think knockout have right, but one thing, if changes will be then only from next year or redo the renewals because i (and as i see some more) released dome strong domestiques because high(ish) wage.... |
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| knockout |
Posted on 30-06-2016 16:00
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7735
Joined: 21-12-2010
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I doubt anyone wants to change this for this FA period already. These changes have to be added before the first off-season task of a season which is the scouting process...
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| OZrocker |
Posted on 30-06-2016 17:14
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1280
Joined: 21-07-2012
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The wage differences have been an issue in the past, but are now working themselves out much better with leaders demanding (and receiving) much higher offers than their minimum wage and having their wages raised by steal attempts. Contador being on a lower price than the other guys is not an issue at all for me, that's the benefit of having someone on your team that nobody else was prepared to bid a large amount for.
Don't get me wrong, I think Shonak is very lucky but no-one deserves to be punished for that
Ollfardh wrote:
Personaly I don't think any rider should be forced in retirement while he's not a FA.
Mini-rant below, please don't take offence...
Spoiler Sorry, but I completely disagree with this. It's not just totally unrealistic, but we can already increase a rider's age of decline, and get a warning a full year before any retirements. Top riders already stay at their peak for a very long time - would you really like a system where a 46 year-old Rodriguez is taking on 40 year-old Froome for a GC victory in the Vuelta? I realise that might be a bit of an exaggeration, but I think my point is still valid.
Also, your team isn't going to be hugely disadvantaged if a top rider retires. With the exception of Contador and maybe a few others, the team's budget will significantly increase if he does leave, allowing you to try and poach a young star from another team or to bid on some big name free agents. It's just the natural progression of the game and I don't think it should be messed around with just so one player can keep their chosen rider indefinitely.
Phew. That's enough from me for today...
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