|
Vuelta a España 2011
|
| cactus-jack |
Posted on 05-09-2011 22:42
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3648
Joined: 31-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
I believe it would be better to continue this discussion in a thread of its own. The Vuelta starts again tomorrow and it would be impossible to talk about the race/stage while this bickering is going on. |
| |
|
|
| Spilak23 |
Posted on 05-09-2011 22:43
|
Team Leader
Posts: 7217
Joined: 22-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
cactus-jack wrote:
I believe it would be better to continue this discussion in a thread of its own. The Vuelta starts again tomorrow and it would be impossible to talk about the race/stage while this bickering is going on.
you're right
|
| |
|
|
| ggDonovan |
Posted on 05-09-2011 22:48
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 868
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
Seems like here, people, really want to see some positives. Carnage for the masses. Too sad...
Sorry but I thought that you loved a little more cycling. You prefer to see a positive than watching your "not your fav cyclist" win over the fav one.
Pathetic.
|
| |
|
|
| helderjose |
Posted on 06-09-2011 01:42
|
Amateur
Posts: 3
Joined: 27-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
Hi everyone!
Concerning his great results this vuelta, how far do you think Sagan could reach?
I confess I am a fan of Sagan and Boasson Hagen, do you think that either of them should be able to win, in the future, Paris Roubaix for instance? |
| |
|
|
| alexkr00 |
Posted on 06-09-2011 01:55
|
World Champion
Posts: 13577
Joined: 05-08-2008
PCM$: 400.00
|
helderjose wrote:
Hi everyone!
Concerning his great results this vuelta, how far do you think Sagan could reach?
I confess I am a fan of Sagan and Boasson Hagen, do you think that either of them should be able to win, in the future, Paris Roubaix for instance?
To be honest, I don't think so. But if one of them could have a shot, I think that would be EBH.
|
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 06-09-2011 06:32
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4851
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
ggDonovan wrote:
Seems like here, people, really want to see some positives. Carnage for the masses. Too sad...
Sorry but I thought that you loved a little more cycling. You prefer to see a positive than watching your "not your fav cyclist" win over the fav one.
Pathetic.
Well I like cycling, one could hardly argue anything else.
But I don't really MotoGP up the mountains... |
| |
|
|
| misar82 |
Posted on 06-09-2011 08:01
|
Stagiare
Posts: 169
Joined: 26-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
ggDonovan wrote:
Seems like here, people, really want to see some positives. Carnage for the masses. Too sad...
Sorry but I thought that you loved a little more cycling. You prefer to see a positive than watching your "not your fav cyclist" win over the fav one.
Pathetic.
I couldn´t agree more. There's also the arrogance of those who have already decided who is guilty of doping and who isn´t, even if in some case there are scores of lawyers still trying to figure that out after many months :-)
"Between me and Eddie Merkcx we have won all the classics. I won the Paris-Tours, he won all the rest"
Nöel Vantyghem
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 19-12-2025 15:53
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 06-09-2011 09:26
|
World Champion
Posts: 13662
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
misar82 wrote:
ggDonovan wrote:
Seems like here, people, really want to see some positives. Carnage for the masses. Too sad...
Sorry but I thought that you loved a little more cycling. You prefer to see a positive than watching your "not your fav cyclist" win over the fav one.
Pathetic.
I couldn´t agree more. There's also the arrogance of those who have already decided who is guilty of doping and who isn´t, even if in some case there are scores of lawyers still trying to figure that out after many months :-)
As mentioned earlier, critical mind is something that make human so unique, so why dont use it and just blindly follow something that is given to you?
If someone has doubts about something, it is his right (and i might even say a duty) to share it with other people and discuss the matter, even it turns to him being wrong.
This how we people made the long way from being the bunch of sheeps to being a thinking persons with critical mind and individual will.
For me, the bad (but judged by who?) critical oppinion is still better then silence and waiting for someone to told you what is the "truth" (remember that those scores of lawyers you mentioned presents their "truth in the end,not the objective one,same with UCI).
Sorry for this off-topic reflection, but this Vuelta is so weird and boring, that i need it.
|
| |
|
|
| misar82 |
Posted on 06-09-2011 09:42
|
Stagiare
Posts: 169
Joined: 26-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
misar82 wrote:
ggDonovan wrote:
Seems like here, people, really want to see some positives. Carnage for the masses. Too sad...
Sorry but I thought that you loved a little more cycling. You prefer to see a positive than watching your "not your fav cyclist" win over the fav one.
Pathetic.
I couldn´t agree more. There's also the arrogance of those who have already decided who is guilty of doping and who isn´t, even if in some case there are scores of lawyers still trying to figure that out after many months :-)
As mentioned earlier, critical mind is something that make human so unique, so why dont use it and just blindly follow something that is given to you?
If someone has doubts about something, it is his right (and i might even say a duty) to share it with other people and discuss the matter, even it turns to him being wrong.
This how we people made the long way from being the bunch of sheeps to being a thinking persons with critical mind and individual will.
For me, the bad (but judged by who?) critical oppinion is still better then silence and waiting for someone to told you what is the "truth" (remember that those scores of lawyers you mentioned presents their "truth in the end,not the objective one,same with UCI).
Sorry for this off-topic reflection, but this Vuelta is so weird and boring, that i need it.
Well, for me the silence in this case is respect for someone's presumption of innocence and reputation until a veredict is reached - as opposed to being hanged by a linching mob. Oh, and incidentally, I am finding this Vuelta preety exciting, with some sopectacular stages and finishes, battle from the very start of the sategs, changes of leaders...sorry you are getting bored, maybe your fav. rider isn´t doing that great?
"Between me and Eddie Merkcx we have won all the classics. I won the Paris-Tours, he won all the rest"
Nöel Vantyghem
|
| |
|
|
| kumazan |
Posted on 06-09-2011 09:46
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6195
Joined: 02-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
I love how we are criticized for using our critical minds but it's, apparently, perfectly fine to baselessly acusse us of not loving cycling. Some people should check their consistency, because they're being hypocrites at the very best.
|
| |
|
|
| ggDonovan |
Posted on 06-09-2011 10:45
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 868
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
This is at the very best a “you more” discussion. I didn’t say you do not love cycling (check my post), I said that I thought the people engaged in this discussion loved it as a sport, not a competition where if your fav cyclist isn’t performing as he should this is because the others are doped. I love cycling, I love the face of a human being when is suffering, but at the same time, he can accomplish goals that are far beyond what a regular one can archive, I love the fair competition and dope is a cancer in the sport that have to be stripped.
My fav cyclists are Flecha and Purito, both are from my country. Both are successful and well respected professionals but they had always failed in great tests. But I still like them, I worship their professionalism and I love that they never give up, they try again. I don’t accuse the others to be doped. I prefer to think that they are not good enough or they have bad luck.
What I’m saying is that I think that, first people here don’t have any real evidence to accuse professionals of doping and second that those accusations are made by people bias in favour of their own predilections. I’m seeing Brits accusing Dutchs and Spanish, Dutchs accusing Brits and Spanish and Spanish accusing Brits and Dutchs. Is this normal?
I want to end saying that I don’t agree with doping and I think that the UCI isn’t too strict in this cases. Ban for life. Two years is a joke. I’m having a good time watching those guys but if one is guilty I will be the first to ask for a real punishment.
Edited by ggDonovan on 06-09-2011 10:45
|
| |
|
|
| facmanpob |
Posted on 06-09-2011 11:01
|
Domestique
Posts: 422
Joined: 29-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
tyriion wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
facmanpob wrote:
Leaving the potential doping aside, the thing that frustrates me about this Vuelta is that the winner may well be decided by time bonuses, and I don't like time bonuses..... 
Offhand, I think that Cobo has amassed 40 seconds of bonuses so far, and good luck to him for playing the system, but I've always felt that its a false way of deciding a race....
Actually the most aggressive riders usually gets those bonuses. So I have no problem with riders like Cobo and Purito being rewarded for their attacks.
+everyone knows this going into the race, if it doesn't suit you don't whine about it.
whose whining? I'm merely stating that I prefer races without time bonuses. Chill out! |
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 06-09-2011 12:22
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4851
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
misar82 wrote:
Well, for me the silence in this case is respect for someone's presumption of innocence and reputation until a veredict is reached - as opposed to being hanged by a linching mob. Oh, and incidentally, I am finding this Vuelta preety exciting, with some sopectacular stages and finishes, battle from the very start of the sategs, changes of leaders...sorry you are getting bored, maybe your fav. rider isn´t doing that great?
Then again, I don't think we're a court, or we're trialling anyone here. Are we ?
If I was a judge, or a member of a jury, I'd certainly express myself differently, but I'm a mere spectator. Ok, I'm more enlightened than random people about cycling, science, doping, etc. but still, I don't have the power to decide suspensions, and I wouldn't stab or hang a doped rider even if I had the opportunity (that'd be murder or vengeance, I'm in favour of Justice).
I can see no good reason why I shouldn't be critical on riders' performances. I don't have favourite riders or a favourite one (sure there are some I like or dislike more than others). I'm critical of almost anything crossing my way (in every day's life), being critical on cycling is natural too. It'd be hypocrisy to just say "I don't want to know about it, he's never been condemned". |
| |
|
|
| kumazan |
Posted on 06-09-2011 13:09
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6195
Joined: 02-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
ggDonovan wrote:
This is at the very best a “you more” discussion. I didn’t say you do not love cycling (check my post), I said that I thought the people engaged in this discussion loved it as a sport, not a competition where if your fav cyclist isn’t performing as he should this is because the others are doped. I love cycling, I love the face of a human being when is suffering, but at the same time, he can accomplish goals that are far beyond what a regular one can archive, I love the fair competition and dope is a cancer in the sport that have to be stripped.
The cyclists I like the most are mostly not even riding this Vuelta, so your point doesn't stand. I don't give a shit about who wins the Vuelta, as I long as I see good racing, which I only have in very few stages, and it's not someone as ridiculous as Cobo.
ggDonovan wrote:My fav cyclists are Flecha and Purito, both are from my country. Both are successful and well respected professionals but they had always failed in great tests. But I still like them, I worship their professionalism and I love that they never give up, they try again. I don’t accuse the others to be doped. I prefer to think that they are not good enough or they have bad luck.
My favourite cyclists are a bunch of riders from different countries, and if they win, I'm happy, and if not, I'm happy anyway as long as I see good and credible racing. Watching Cobo smashing the field up the Angliru is, for me, utterly disgusting.
ggDonovan wrote:What I’m saying is that I think that, first people here don’t have any real evidence to accuse professionals of doping and second that those accusations are made by people bias in favour of their own predilections. I’m seeing Brits accusing Dutchs and Spanish, Dutchs accusing Brits and Spanish and Spanish accusing Brits and Dutchs. Is this normal?
I'm Spanish, so your point, again, does not stand. And this is a forum, were we can express our opinions. If you don't feel like you have enough evidence to call x or y a cheater or whatever, fine, but please don't ask everybody to have the same standards than you, because that's close to impossible. We're not a jury, so innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply here. We voice opinions, not verdicts.
ggDonovan wrote:I want to end saying that I don’t agree with doping and I think that the UCI isn’t too strict in this cases. Ban for life. Two years is a joke. I’m having a good time watching those guys but if one is guilty I will be the first to ask for a real punishment.
Agreed.
Edited by kumazan on 06-09-2011 13:12
|
| |
|
|
| valverde321 |
Posted on 06-09-2011 14:41
|
World Champion
Posts: 12429
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
|
How 'bout that Vuelta? 
|
| |
|
|
| CountArach |
Posted on 06-09-2011 14:44
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8205
Joined: 14-07-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
valverde321 wrote:
How 'bout that Vuelta?
I was coming to post the exact same line
|
| |
|
|
| CrueTrue |
Posted on 06-09-2011 14:59
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 27880
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Well, it's a flat stage, so no one will care about the Vuelta for at least one more hour |
| |
|
|
| CrueTrue |
Posted on 06-09-2011 17:01
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 27880
Joined: 20-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
So, that was fun. A roundabout with 400m to go confused Wagner who, due to his screw-up, pretty much gave away the victory to JJ Haedo. |
| |
|
|
| FreitasPCM |
Posted on 06-09-2011 17:11
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7784
Joined: 08-09-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
The question is, why did they have to include the roundabout so close to the line in first place? |
| |
|
|
| mb2612 |
Posted on 06-09-2011 17:12
|
Team Leader
Posts: 5535
Joined: 18-05-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
And Froome wins two seconds in the intermediate, only to loose them in the finish 
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
| |
|
