|
Sky Doping/Hate Thread
|
| fcancellara |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:13
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5194
Joined: 18-08-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
It's ridiculous how chanceless the others are.
|
| |
|
|
| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:14
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
|
fcancellara wrote:
It's ridiculous how chanceless the others are.
Kind of like Gilbert on any hill in 2011
Cancellara on any cobbles in 2010
Highroad in any sprint from 08 to 11
Sagan on any finish he wants to contest now......
|
| |
|
|
| Wilier |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:17
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5405
Joined: 28-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
TheManxMissile wrote:
fcancellara wrote:
It's ridiculous how chanceless the others are.
Kind of like Gilbert on any hill in 2011
Cancellara on any cobbles in 2010
Highroad in any sprint from 08 to 11
Sagan on any finish he wants to contest now......
So? Does that prove Sky is clean?
The way Sky wins and the way their riders improve has a bad feel to it (at least for myself). Something's off.
Strongest team on paper? Yes, but only after their performance drastically improved somewhere around 2 years ago. Sky went from mediocre team to a team that wins everything. Froome becomes the best climber in the world after showing nothing for years. He was even out of contract. Wiggins drasticaly improves his climbing skills and even manages to get stronger in TT-ing as well. There's no logic at all. Every big race gets killed of because Sky. This way my interest in watching cycling races is getting smaller.
Edited by Wilier on 09-03-2013 15:22
|
| |
|
|
| kumazan |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:18
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6662
Joined: 02-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
TheManxMissile wrote:
Kind of like Gilbert on any hill in 2011
Ibarguren.
TheManxMissile wrote:
Cancellara on any cobbles in 2010
Good old Luigi.
TheManxMissile wrote:
Highroad in any sprint from 08 to 11
Highroad had the best sprinters, as proved by how they've performed in other teams. Not something you can say from many Sky top climbers.
TheManxMissile wrote:
Sagan on any finish he wants to contest now......
That's why he still hasn't one single big win.
|
| |
|
|
| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:19
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
|
Highroad still had a couple of slipups though. And it's wasn't just pure strength that led to their success, it was a combination of all skills. ANd their sprinters and leadout men had always had success, on HTC or not.
Canc has been a beast for a very long time. Didn't come out of nowhere.
And maybe Gilbert was on something...
Edited by baseballlover312 on 09-03-2013 15:21
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
| |
|
|
| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:19
|
World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
|
Alakagom wrote:
fcancellara wrote:
So that stage in the Tirreno proves my point once again, which is:
Team Sky dopes 
Does it?
Strongest team on paper.
Henao and Uran being doemstqiues which could have podiumed this stage if not working for Froome
Froome being on top shape and his biggest goal of the season par Tour.
I mean, I expect many more perofmances that will lead to Sky being ''doping'' and other stuff, but not this performance especially.
Despite my doubts about UK Postal are known, i have to agree this time completly.
Look at Kwiatkowski and Santabrogio, what would you say about them, when they are close to Froome if he is doped as hell? Or that top notch climbers Henao and Uran are not able to drop them with their pace?
Froome is sick and i am already sorry for myself that i will have to watch him destroying everyone in July with mountain time train, but this was not sure doping.
Lets wait for cleaner signs.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 09-03-2013 15:22
|
| |
|
|
| Atlantius |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:22
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6795
Joined: 21-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
I actually believe that a large part of the Sky riders good development is that they take care of their young riders in stead of just signing them, giving them a training schedule and then leaving them to themselves most of the time. I believe many of the big teams could do a lot better on talent development.
But yes, there are probably some extent of doping on Sky. Exactly like on Astana, Katusha etc...
|
| |
|
|
| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:23
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
|
@Willier
No, but neither does them winning prove they dope. What it does is make people think. Level a baseless accusation, and its easy to come up with a similar situation with other riders and teams.
I don't mind people talking about people possibly doping, thats unfortunately the state of the sport. But i HATE when people go ott because it is Sky.
@kumazan
see above.
Cause you know, TDF stages and Points are small. Wins in Oman against Froome et al are small... etc etc
Highroad - But several of the riders have not been at other teams (Uran, Henao). Only ones that works for, Wiggins and Froome...
|
| |
|
|
| Wilier |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:24
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5405
Joined: 28-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
fcancellara wrote:
So that stage in the Tirreno proves my point once again, which is:
Team Sky dopes
Does it?
Strongest team on paper.
Henao and Uran being doemstqiues which could have podiumed this stage if not working for Froome
Froome being on top shape and his biggest goal of the season par Tour.
I mean, I expect many more perofmances that will lead to Sky being ''doping'' and other stuff, but not this performance especially.
Despite my doubts about UK Postal are known, i have to agree this time completly.
Look at Kwiatkowski and Santabrogio, what would you say about them, when they are close to Froome if he is doped as hell? Or that top notch climbers Henao and Uran are not able to drop them with their pace?
Froome is sick and i am already sorry for myself that i will have to watch him destroying everyone in July with mountain time train, but this was not sure doping.
Lets wait for cleaner signs.
Quick Step riders are helped by Ibarguren. Santambrogio is a surprise though, but wasn't he named in a doping investigation somewhere? |
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 02:03
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:24
|
World Champion
Posts: 10121
Joined: 01-05-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
TheManxMissile wrote:
But several of the riders have not been at other teams (Uran, Henao). Only ones that works for, Wiggins and Froome...
What's wrong with Caisse?
|
| |
|
|
| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:25
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
|
Alakagom wrote:
fcancellara wrote:
So that stage in the Tirreno proves my point once again, which is:
Team Sky dopes
Does it?
Strongest team on paper.
Henao and Uran being doemstqiues which could have podiumed this stage if not working for Froome
Froome being on top shape and his biggest goal of the season par Tour.
I mean, I expect many more perofmances that will lead to Sky being ''doping'' and other stuff, but not this performance especially.
They wouldn't be even know in 2010! They come out of nowhere all at the same time in 2011 and start crushing for no reason. Guys that have been lucky to score op 20s in stage races are now out TTing Canc by 2 minutes. Henao was on the fron for like 5 km going all out and dropping Purito, Evans, etc.
And this perfomromance isn't a standout. Your right. Because every race Sky enters with these guys is the same.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
| |
|
|
| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:26
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
|
Edit: At other teams when not Youth.
Better?
You know what i meant.
|
| |
|
|
| ThatLlama |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:27
|
Amateur
Posts: 18
Joined: 03-01-2013
PCM$: 200.00
|
Atlantius wrote:
I actually believe that a large part of the Sky riders good development is that they take care of their young riders in stead of just signing them, giving them a training schedule and then leaving them to themselves most of the time. I believe many of the big teams could do a lot better on talent development.
.
Less money goes into the riders in Sky and more into the development of them.
Joe D turned down big money from BMC to go to Sky for less money. |
| |
|
|
| Wilier |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:29
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5405
Joined: 28-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
TheManxMissile wrote:
@Willier
No, but neither does them winning prove they dope. What it does is make people think. Level a baseless accusation, and its easy to come up with a similar situation with other riders and teams.
I don't mind people talking about people possibly doping, thats unfortunately the state of the sport. But i HATE when people go ott because it is Sky.
@kumazan
see above.
Cause you know, TDF stages and Points are small. Wins in Oman against Froome et al are small... etc etc
Highroad - But several of the riders have not been at other teams (Uran, Henao). Only ones that works for, Wiggins and Froome...
It's not a surprise Sky is the most hated team, since they kill a lot of races by being way too strong for everyone else. I don't believe Sky's training programs can make that much difference in sport in the current age. |
| |
|
|
| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:30
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
|
TheManxMissile wrote:
@Willier
No, but neither does them winning prove they dope. What it does is make people think. Level a baseless accusation, and its easy to come up with a similar situation with other riders and teams.
I don't mind people talking about people possibly doping, thats unfortunately the state of the sport. But i HATE when people go ott because it is Sky.
@kumazan
see above.
Cause you know, TDF stages and Points are small. Wins in Oman against Froome et al are small... etc etc
Highroad - But several of the riders have not been at other teams (Uran, Henao). Only ones that works for, Wiggins and Froome...
And Porte. And Suitsou. Rogers last year. Not to mention that Froome and Wiggo are their biggest riders.. and the same will happen to Boswell, Cataldo, Dombrovski.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
| |
|
|
| Alakagom |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:30
|
World Champion
Posts: 10891
Joined: 19-11-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
baseballlover312 wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
fcancellara wrote:
So that stage in the Tirreno proves my point once again, which is:
Team Sky dopes
Does it?
Strongest team on paper.
Henao and Uran being doemstqiues which could have podiumed this stage if not working for Froome
Froome being on top shape and his biggest goal of the season par Tour.
I mean, I expect many more perofmances that will lead to Sky being ''doping'' and other stuff, but not this performance especially.
They wouldn't be even know in 2010! They come out of nowhere all at the same time in 2011 and start crushing for no reason. Guys that have been lucky to score op 20s in stage races are now out TTing Canc by 2 minutes. Henao was on the fron for like 5 km going all out and dropping Purito, Evans, etc.
And this perfomromance isn't a standout. Your right. Because every race Sky enters with these guys is the same.
2011 crushing ? I don't think so. It was a stepping stone, the Dauphine victory was the first real highlight. Then the Vuelta which they lost due to tactics.
Who are they ? Froome is one, name the others please.
Henao is a massive talent, he has abilities to win a GT in years to come, he was dubbed to be a massive star long ago, not really expected. And to this I can also say, how can Kwiatkowski or Santabriogio be dropping Evans or Purito too? Surely they are maxing their doping as well to maxium, no ?
Edited by Alakagom on 09-03-2013 15:31
|
| |
|
|
| ryant |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:30
|
Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2322
Joined: 15-08-2012
PCM$: 200.00
|
Also, Porte's climbing ability has improved massively as well, apart from last years Tour, I dont see a good example of Porte being able to climb no where near as good as he did yesterday
 John St Ledger in Team Bunzl-Centrica and Team U25Red Bull Driver in RFactor
|
| |
|
|
| kumazan |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:30
|
Team Leader
Posts: 6662
Joined: 02-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
|
TheManxMissile wrote:
Cause you know, TDF stages and Points are small. Wins in Oman against Froome et al are small... etc etc
They are. Oman is a shit small race, and Tour de France stages can be won by whoever. Of course a TdF stage is a quite good win, but not in the level of a classic or a prestigious stage race. Still Sagan has always been a top talent, and his progression is quite credible.
TheManxMissile wrote:
Highroad - But several of the riders have not been at other teams (Uran, Henao). Only ones that works for, Wiggins and Froome...
Henao is the only one who we haven't seen at other teams.
|
| |
|
|
| Aquarius |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:31
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5220
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
As pointed out on twitter, the final climb today showed two different ways to manage one's effort in a last climb.
Froome's rouleur-climber style with the most constant power all along the climb that's lethal to others and gives him the best efficiency, and Contador's chaotic climber-rouleur style made of accelerations, slowing downs, etc. That works fine when the pace is average. When the pace is too high that's not working well against guys like Froome.
Sky riders are managing their efforts perfectly by sticking their eyes to their power meters displays all the time.
As much as I'm fond of cycling becoming more scientific and human body's understanding getting better every day, I think power meters are becoming the new plague of cycling, just like ear-speakers. |
| |
|
|
| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-03-2013 15:34
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
|
Alakagom wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
fcancellara wrote:
So that stage in the Tirreno proves my point once again, which is:
Team Sky dopes
Does it?
Strongest team on paper.
Henao and Uran being doemstqiues which could have podiumed this stage if not working for Froome
Froome being on top shape and his biggest goal of the season par Tour.
I mean, I expect many more perofmances that will lead to Sky being ''doping'' and other stuff, but not this performance especially.
They wouldn't be even know in 2010! They come out of nowhere all at the same time in 2011 and start crushing for no reason. Guys that have been lucky to score op 20s in stage races are now out TTing Canc by 2 minutes. Henao was on the fron for like 5 km going all out and dropping Purito, Evans, etc.
And this perfomromance isn't a standout. Your right. Because every race Sky enters with these guys is the same.
2011 crushing ? I don't think so. It was a stepping stone, the Dauphine victory was the first real highlight. Then the Vuelta which they lost due to tactics.
Who are they ? Froome is one, name the others please.
Henao is a massive talent, he has abilities to win a GT in years to come, he was dubbed to be a massive star long ago, not really expected. And to this I can also say, how can Kwiatkowski or Santabriogio be dropping Evans or Purito too? Surely they are maxing their doping as well to maxium, no ?
Henao is not who I was talking about.
And starting in 2011 with the Vuelta is what I meant. Since then, it's been contstant.
Froome, Wiggins (he was 4th in 2009 TDF, but that's it), Rogers got a monster boost last year- although it isn't the first time he's been on a team where that happened, Porte, should I go on?
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
| |
|
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
