superider2010 wrote:
uci won't do a shit,astana will remain in world tour

TheManxMissile wrote:


So that's your point #1 dealt with nice and cleanly. A race is perfectly within it's right to base advertising on the big name riders taking part in the race, in fact for many races that's a great way to advertise and draw crowds. Hell it's at least half the reason riders go to events like San Luis!
However that E3 advert does not reference to any stars or racing. Ok the hand is wearing a cycling glove, a light blue one so i'm guessing Astana (because Astana needs more controersy ). Astana did win the TDF cobbled stage, so perhaps it's not quite as bad as is looks.



Ludicrous comparision incoming - For a long time it wasn't illegal to judge a man based on the color of his skin or his sexuality and then racially abuse that man, or hurt him, or deny him basic human rights purely because he was a different race of sexuality. Just because something isn't illegal doesn't make it ok.
Back to the poster. Yes E3 has a history in this area, and actually i like the cheeky (excuse the pun) nature of them. It's nice to have something different around. But there is a difference between have cyclists riding over a woman and the implied harrassment/assult of this years image.
My complaints are not on the fact there's a pretty woman there, but on what the content is reffering to and the implications that raises. The podium girl was upset in 2013, and even Sagan came out and said he shouldn't have done it. But you know, apparently it's ok to laugh about it now. Ludicrous comparision incoming - Hey i saw this black man fall down today, it was hilarious! You know what was even funnier? I liked it so much i made another black man fall down just so i could laugh.



I'm not going to quote the whole piece to make sure this doesn't get too long.

Like it or not modern feminism does come into this, in the same way it came into the incident in 2013. Yes a lot of the time it's completely f*cking blown overboard to point of idiocy, i will agree with that.
I guess by trying to stay away from the non-relative areas i didn't make my point clear. Like in many sports Cycling has parity issues between it's Mens and Womens sides. Yes different commercial interests will change the money available to each side, and Womens is less popular so will get less money/exposure/races/etc. I'm not an idiot i know all this.
I was alluding to some basic issues in the UCI which have been re-highlighted this week. Adverts for secretarial positions specifically target at women. A provision in the rules that "Six maids-of-honor who will carry on the World Champion jersey(s), medals, the trophy and bouquets of flowers". Basically all sports have podium girls, i don't have issue with that, but making it part of the rule-book as far as i'm aware is uniqe to cycling and completely f*cking nuts.



Thanks for making it personal first, fills me with confidence and a sense of righteousness knowing i've already won now, thanks

Yes i have them as avatars because i like them, i like the films and shows they've been in, and yes they are atractive. You know what? I guess i am a disgusting person i should probably go and find a way to scouer these impure thoughts from my mind immediately (i can't take this bit seriously, sorry).
I don't recal ever calling HIMYM particularly high-brow or anything, i know it's pretty basic and not that critically brilliant. A lot of the jokes arn't great and a number poke fun at women. Doesn't mean i can't enjoy it. I guess because i like Blazing Saddles i'm a racist as well. Christ i'm just a horrible person at heart. And now i've used the Lords name in vain, just insulting and attacking Christians! F*ck i just can't stop being a d*ck. Sh*t, a reference to male genitalia, clearly this is a sign of patriarchy overtaking my mind to exclusion and derision of all women, trans-genders and non-genders... f*ck.

Started off with some saliant points on the subject. E3 does have a history in this area and if you take the hand away and change the slogan it wouldn't be an issue. But the hand is there along with the slogan and it changes the whole situation from "sex sells" to promoting 50's style "harmless" groping.
To be clear, i'm not saying the past E3 ads are wrong. Nor am i saying this one is completly abhorent. But that it crosses over a line because of what it implies in a wider context.
And as an Ad it's doing a good job. Instead of focusing on Omloop or KBK column inches are being given over to E3. "Any publicity is good publicity" isn't quite something i agree with fully, but brand awareness for E3 has reached huge new high this week for sure.
And thanks again for going personal

superider2010 wrote:
in time will see what's happen but right now i'm betting that uci won't ban or relegate astana from world tour
hadn't katiusha a problem with licensing?
i don't remember but astana had a doper last year,no? why they don't take the same actions on tinkoff saxo because of kreuziger.tinkoff has contador and baso with doping history
if uci start to do a thing then do it well

tsmoha wrote:
Thanks, Strydz! Yeah, i love it, too. It's made by a German artist, who made a couple of good drawings earlier this year. I fear i forgot his name/website though

Dippofix wrote:
Have to say I agree with Avin. Until you take the women out of your profile pics and signature, I can't possibly take you seriously. It's like complaining about Hitler while wearing an SS uniform, that's just not how it works. I agree that the ad should be removed, but IMO it's not actually much better or worse than the concept of podium girls. It's actually kind of funny imo, but as an ad it's taking things a bit too far.
And the whole equality issue is something completely different. It's a bit like in tennis, where women get paid equally for playing 1-3 sets less and most of the time less interesting tennis. I honestly don't get it, but it'a not up to me to decide.

And another last thing: Your last paragraph shows that you've no response to what Avin said and have actually lost the argument already yourself.

rjc_43 wrote:
UCI pass the case to the License Committee, who will agree with the findings, remove the World Tour license.

Astana will take the case to CAS.

CAS will rule in favour of Astana as the UCI/License Committee are preventing 28ish riders from earning a wage, and however many backup staff from earning one too.

Too large an impact at the wrong time.


That's what I think will happen anyway.

Alakagom wrote:
CCC with aspiration to become WT team. They are paying 3.1 million already for the PCT team, but now are ending ties with basketball sponsorship and are fully focusing on the cycling team.

TheManxMissile wrote:


Not wishing to go back over old ground in terms of a story pretty much well covered by now, but seeing as this doesn't appear to be about the news but is about me...

The reason i didn't give much attention to Avins final paragraphs where he questioned me personally is because it was about me and not about the news discussion.
I'm fully preppared to discuss the news itself because there are potentially interesting arguements on both sides relating to a varied range of related topics.
Instead Avin went straight into a personal attack. Not even a couple of back-and-forths where we were getting stubbon. Nope, straight to the personal attack, and well done on joining in with him on the personal side, classy move.

I am fully preppared to talk about the ad and it's related topics. Some interesting stuff there on both sides, as i already said. But i'd would appreciated the basic level of courtesy i would expect in say the Difficult Topics thread where discussion doesn't get personal.

Dippofix wrote:
We can take this to PM if you like, but I'd just geniunely like to know why you don't find it hypocritical. I mean, on the one hand, you're bitching about the objectification of women, on the other hand, look at your sig.

kadtagenero wrote:
Meanwhile, in Colombia we are having a race with 2 continental teams and a lot of amateurs, and today this happened:



It's something like this: "Doping test, there isn't, doctors did not attend"

So, this isn't serious... in the highest level or the lower ones... our sport is doomed, nobody cares...