Nin1388 wrote:
Despite his brother being caught using doping masking agent Andy Schleck was never tested positive or has been involved in any doping accusations or tests. And it's only fair that he did not use any unethical means and boost his performance after crash, just to show all that he is back. He was not good enough and he retired.
Only Lemond , Sastre, Evans, Andy Schleck, Wiggins, Froome and Nibali are clean TdF winners. No idea how long will that stat will last.
So Tour winners that never got caught doping, or what? Because if you're making a list of riders you think were clean, Froome shouldn't have a place on it. If you're talking of riders that never got caught, add Stephen Roche, and at least another dozen or so others.
Well Lance never had a positive sample
Oh yes he did, 4 times @ 99 Le Tour
Yeah six years afterwards when he was retired for the first time. Anyway, it wasn't meant to be serious.
alexkr00 wrote:
I honestly don't understand how a rider like Andy Schleck had so many fans.
As for the hour record thing:
I honestly don't understand how you can't understand that.
For 2 years or so, Schleck was the only real contender to Contador. And its needless to say that many guys didn't like Contador, mainly because of what he did didn't seem naturally to some people. In that period, he was the young gun aiming for yellow - of course it appealed to some, myself included. Its almost downright stupid to think otherwise.
On top of that, I have always admired Andy in terms of his style on his bike. Its simply just beautiful and I know aesthetics feel the same way bout it. Again, Galibier stand out to me here.
As I said previously, Andy was one of those riders with the talent to achieve things that 99% of the peloton only could dream of due to his incredibly talent. I have always admired guys with that talent - LeBron James, Ronaldo, Federer, Usain Bolt etc. fall into that same category. Some people don't like those kinda persons, whether its because of envy or whatever I dont know. When watching sport, most of us want to see the best compeat against each other and without Andy, something really went missing which is why it was said to me.
I get why some people don't like him. My guess would be that they feel he should feel obliged to make something better of himself with that kinda talent which was given to him. I can kinda subscribe to that notion, but the beauty of sports is that those incredible talents (LeBron James comes to mind here) has some mental lapses to overcome which Andy didn't which is incredibly sad to see.
Edited by Riis123 on 09-10-2014 21:23
Nin1388 wrote:
Despite his brother being caught using doping masking agent Andy Schleck was never tested positive or has been involved in any doping accusations or tests. And it's only fair that he did not use any unethical means and boost his performance after crash, just to show all that he is back. He was not good enough and he retired.
Only Lemond , Sastre, Evans, Andy Schleck, Wiggins, Froome and Nibali are clean TdF winners. No idea how long will that stat will last.
Good try, but only 2 of those were likely clean.
And anyway, Schleck won based on another doper being caught, so i don't think that really counts.
Lemond and... Evans? Remember he started in MTB, easily one of the dirtiest parts of the sport. Or do you mean Sastre?
Nin1388 wrote:
Despite his brother being caught using doping masking agent Andy Schleck was never tested positive or has been involved in any doping accusations or tests. And it's only fair that he did not use any unethical means and boost his performance after crash, just to show all that he is back. He was not good enough and he retired.
Only Lemond , Sastre, Evans, Andy Schleck, Wiggins, Froome and Nibali are clean TdF winners. No idea how long will that stat will last.
Good try, but only 2 of those were likely clean.
And anyway, Schleck won based on another doper being caught, so i don't think that really counts.
Lemond and... Evans? Remember he started in MTB, easily one of the dirtiest parts of the sport. Or do you mean Sastre?
I would assume Sastre. Who has never been caught, not been accused really and generally less suspicious than others in that group.
Nin1388 wrote:
Despite his brother being caught using doping masking agent Andy Schleck was never tested positive or has been involved in any doping accusations or tests. And it's only fair that he did not use any unethical means and boost his performance after crash, just to show all that he is back. He was not good enough and he retired.
Only Lemond , Sastre, Evans, Andy Schleck, Wiggins, Froome and Nibali are clean TdF winners. No idea how long will that stat will last.
Good try, but only 2 of those were likely clean.
And anyway, Schleck won based on another doper being caught, so i don't think that really counts.
Lemond and... Evans? Remember he started in MTB, easily one of the dirtiest parts of the sport. Or do you mean Sastre?
I would assume Sastre. Who has never been caught, not been accused really and generally less suspicious than others in that group.
Yeah I was thinking Sastre.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
Nin1388 wrote:
Despite his brother being caught using doping masking agent Andy Schleck was never tested positive or has been involved in any doping accusations or tests. And it's only fair that he did not use any unethical means and boost his performance after crash, just to show all that he is back. He was not good enough and he retired.
Only Lemond , Sastre, Evans, Andy Schleck, Wiggins, Froome and Nibali are clean TdF winners. No idea how long will that stat will last.
Good try, but only 2 of those were likely clean.
And anyway, Schleck won based on another doper being caught, so i don't think that really counts.
Lemond and... Evans? Remember he started in MTB, easily one of the dirtiest parts of the sport. Or do you mean Sastre?
I would assume Sastre. Who has never been caught, not been accused really and generally less suspicious than others in that group.
Yeah I was thinking Sastre.
I would add Wiggins to that list as well. He hasn't dominated like others, riders from a track background are cleaner than others. this last point may not be true, but i;ve heard countless times that road racing has been dirty, while the track has been more "professional"
Cadel Evans was a client of Michele Ferrari,wasn't he?
And regarding Lemond, I am not sure he definitely didn't dope. There is no evidence for this (but neither is there for Froome).
btw, i think Wiggins is a prick, so i am not a "fanboy"
Nin1388 wrote:
Despite his brother being caught using doping masking agent Andy Schleck was never tested positive or has been involved in any doping accusations or tests. And it's only fair that he did not use any unethical means and boost his performance after crash, just to show all that he is back. He was not good enough and he retired.
Only Lemond , Sastre, Evans, Andy Schleck, Wiggins, Froome and Nibali are clean TdF winners. No idea how long will that stat will last.
Good try, but only 2 of those were likely clean.
And anyway, Schleck won based on another doper being caught, so i don't think that really counts.
Lemond and... Evans? Remember he started in MTB, easily one of the dirtiest parts of the sport. Or do you mean Sastre?
I would assume Sastre. Who has never been caught, not been accused really and generally less suspicious than others in that group.
Yeah I was thinking Sastre.
Right. I just don't trust Spaniards at that time
As for Wiggins. He is absolutely filthy. Track cycling is arguably more dirty than road, what with records being broken every single year.
And Lemond was there before the EPO days so if he did any drugs they were relatively innocuous ones and nowhere near the level of performance enhancement that we can get these days.
CountArach wrote:
Right. I just don't trust Spaniards at that time
Do you realise how stupid you sound when you base such an accusation based on nationality? I don't think you're a convict just because you're from australia.
If you look at a list of doping cases in cycling you will see a lot of spanish and italien riders, but that's just because there are that many more spanish and italien riders. If you really want to use nationality as factor, you should make a list of doping cases per rider per country (imagine how high USA would be on that list, and you don't trust the spanish). It would still be stupid though, as it's still at group of people that operate completely independent from each other.
You could argue that Sastre rode under Riis. But unlike any other captain Riis has had, he has never been mentioned on any lists by doping doctors. Well Andy hasn't either but he has a very close relationship with his brother who has connections to Fuentes and a positive test (This is a much better indications than Andy being form Luxembourg).
Edited by Metriz- on 10-10-2014 05:21
I guess the reason why a rider chooses to dope himself, is because he feels pressured to do it, in order to be able to participate in the good end of things. In the end I think it's about "Doping to win" and nothing more than that, discussing nationalities won't come to an conclusion, but the I feel that discussing doping is like quitting ones interest of cycling.
I don't like doping and I don't like ppl that use it to perform, but the rider does it out of pressure, expectations and for entertainment. Without it the pace wouldn't be that high and out of our point of view a sport without it wouldn't be as entertaining for us as it could be.
I go in for the removal of doping for each one that gets exposed to it and being unethical or not, just leave it to that in the end and enjoy the fact that some are willing to sacrife that in order for us to be entertained and by some point also having them being able to make a life out of the sport.
Nin1388 wrote:
Despite his brother being caught using doping masking agent Andy Schleck was never tested positive or has been involved in any doping accusations or tests. And it's only fair that he did not use any unethical means and boost his performance after crash, just to show all that he is back. He was not good enough and he retired.
Only Lemond , Sastre, Evans, Andy Schleck, Wiggins, Froome and Nibali are clean TdF winners. No idea how long will that stat will last.
So Tour winners that never got caught doping, or what? Because if you're making a list of riders you think were clean, Froome shouldn't have a place on it. If you're talking of riders that never got caught, add Stephen Roche, and at least another dozen or so others.
Go and search you will find teammates and/or team managers who will say others have used. All of them except once I mentioned.
Argue with me all you want but this is just a fact I mentioned. And read what I said at end
Argue with me all you want. This is just a fact that I learnt and thought of sharing. This riders have not been accused (with proof) or caught or teammates or team members have admitted.
Argue with me all you want. This is just a fact that I learnt and thought of sharing. This riders have not been accused (with proof) or caught or teammates or team members have admitted.
You people are so idiotic . Arguing about facts
Please come up with sources for the facts then.
This is a forum and so it`s a fair discussion here. So stop calling others idiots for discussing.
Argue with me all you want. This is just a fact that I learnt and thought of sharing. This riders have not been accused (with proof) or caught or teammates or team members have admitted.
You people are so idiotic . Arguing about facts
Please come up with sources for the facts then.
This is a forum and so it`s a fair discussion here. So stop calling others idiots for discussing.
I think you have to prove that, riders I have mentioned are not clean; rather than other way around. Who needs proof? Contador, Armstrong, Riis, Ulrich which other tdf winner you need proof? Proof is in front of your eyes and if you wish can over look it.
Another genius argues with me that rider promoted after other fails is not TdF winner. So this means all should dope and rider xyz who wins tdf is hero for you'll. Is that not idiotic?
When governing body has banned that rider. If you are so great genius then why is it that you are not in control/governing body. (By you, I mean guy who was arguing a with me)
Edited by Nin1388 on 10-10-2014 12:32
Salbutamol is commonly used to treat asthma symptoms, and is allowed to be used in cycle racing if the cyclist can provide a medical prescription for the substance. It is alleged that the International Cycling Union gave Pereiro retroactive permission to use the substance on medical grounds after the positive tests. The French anti-doping agency questions the veracity of the medical grounds. It demanded that Pereiro verify the grounds for the use of salbutamol within a week.
On January 25, 2007, France's anti-doping agency dropped its investigation, saying Pereiro provided sufficient justification for use of the asthma medication.
Though, he's anyway justified, but there are too much asthmatic riders, this makes me think...
matt17br wrote:
Though, he's anyway justified, but there are too much asthmatic riders, this makes me think...
No surprise there, Asthma is a disease of airways and breathing. Cyclists have long exercise efforts far above human average level throughout the year. It's only logical that some cyclists don't cope with this all too well over the years.
(Granted, it can be for some a welcome excuse for doping too of course)
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
TheHoeke wrote:
I guess the reason why a rider chooses to dope himself, is because he feels pressured to do it, in order to be able to participate in the good end of things. In the end I think it's about "Doping to win" and nothing more than that, discussing nationalities won't come to an conclusion, but the I feel that discussing doping is like quitting ones interest of cycling.
I don't like doping and I don't like ppl that use it to perform, but the rider does it out of pressure, expectations and for entertainment. Without it the pace wouldn't be that high and out of our point of view a sport without it wouldn't be as entertaining for us as it could be.
I go in for the removal of doping for each one that gets exposed to it and being unethical or not, just leave it to that in the end and enjoy the fact that some are willing to sacrife that in order for us to be entertained and by some point also having them being able to make a life out of the sport.
Great news, for the first time, for the Liguria. After the flood that hit Genoa, the Trofeo Laigueglia, one of the most important continental italian races, will be promoted to the HC.
Nope I was quite amazed when someone I don't really remember used Dauphine as a reason why Froome is the 'biggest talent' in cycling Edited by dark_x2012 on 15-10-2014 19:21
Nin1388 wrote:
Despite his brother being caught using doping masking agent Andy Schleck was never tested positive or has been involved in any doping accusations or tests. And it's only fair that he did not use any unethical means and boost his performance after crash, just to show all that he is back. He was not good enough and he retired.
Only Lemond , Sastre, Evans, Andy Schleck, Wiggins, Froome and Nibali are clean TdF winners. No idea how long will that stat will last.
So Tour winners that never got caught doping, or what? Because if you're making a list of riders you think were clean, Froome shouldn't have a place on it. If you're talking of riders that never got caught, add Stephen Roche, and at least another dozen or so others.
Go and search you will find teammates and/or team managers who will say others have used. All of them except once I mentioned.
Argue with me all you want but this is just a fact I mentioned. And read what I said at end
ok...lets take a look at this...
froome...obviously not clean, nibali riding for vinokourov says it all, wiggins is just as obvious as froome...to evans, sastre and lemond, i have nothing to say, because...
lemond was far before my time
sastre was before i found interest in cycling
evans is not obvious, but i think he doped, too...i mean...look at his age...
just because some people tell something on the internet, doesnt make them clean.
just because tony martin was never accused of doping, means that he is clean?
and i want to say something to you.
please dont act like a little child and if you dont like an opinion, you dont have to call people "idiot" f.e.
you did not learn how to argue "the right way" in primary scholl, did you?
I was quite amazed when someone I don't really remember used Dauphine as a reason why Froome is the 'biggest talent' in cycling 
