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ICL15 - General Discussion | Riders Development
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| Bikex |
Posted on 03-11-2014 14:11
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New season, new thread.
Like in season 1 I'd like to start the thread with the discussion about the calendar.
In post #3 you see the 2014 calendar. A lot of races will be taken over into 2015. However I'd like to make some changes.
The world tour 2015 should visit all continents, so we need an African race. The same goes for the continental tour.
The 2014 calendar didn't really suit the cobblers so I'd like to have a WT stage race that favours the cobblers. Maybe also another cobbled classic.
The sprinters also had not many chances to score points. To change that the new Giro points system which favours the sprinters will be used, so only in the Vuelta it's not likely a sprinter will get the points jersey. A flat variant of Milano - San Remo will be used and we might add another sprinters race to the calendar. In the CT anyways.
Discuss what you think about that and state your thoughts considering how the 2014 season went. Which races should be removed? Which races do you want to see on the 2015 calendar?
For at least all of the WT stage races I want another variant then used in 2014, if that's possible. So you have the chance to be a race organizer. Pick your race and search for a new route. Maybe it's easy and other variants have been made, so you can easily find new stages. If it's not that easy you can look for stages in the specific region out of other races, or search for a stage with a profile you like. You can use *.xml files to refer to them. To see how that works just open a *.xml file in the stages folder. Of course you can also use some stages out of the old race if you want. You can draw a certain pattern like e.g. the TONE could always end with an epilogue in Gothenburg.
On top of that you can choose leader jerseys of your race. I don't want entirely new leader jerseys as they will only barely be seen, but you can decide a colour or pick some from other races.
Last thing that can be done are the xml files which determine how much points/bonus seconds are awarded at KoMs, ISs and the finish. I'll have a look at it and might make an excel file to make it easier for you. If not you can also choose xml files from other races. You will find them in your games folder in the folder Xml/ Classifications.
I hope some of you decide to become race organizers, that would take some work of my shoulders. It might seem to be a hard job but remember there is still plenty of time until the season starts, also the leader jerseys and xml files don't need to be done necessarily.
Please don't pick GTs as I want them to be discussed by everyone together.
In post 2 I keep an overview on the discussions going on concerning the calender and who picked which race as organizer.
Edited by Bikex on 10-09-2015 13:38
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| Bikex |
Posted on 03-11-2014 14:11
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Reserve
Edited by Bikex on 19-10-2015 21:03
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| Bikex |
Posted on 03-11-2014 14:12
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Calendar 2014
WT
Spoiler | Race | Country | StartDate | EndDate | Stages | | Palm Classic | UAE | 115 | 115 | 1 | | Tour of Toowoomba | Australia | 121 | 125 | 5 | | Omloop Het Nieuwsblad | Belgium | 301 | 301 | 1 | | Strade Bianche | Italy | 308 | 308 | 1 | | Vuelta a Tachira | Venezuela | 309 | 318 | 10 | | Milano - Sanremo | Italy | 323 | 323 | 1 | | E3 Prijs Vlaanderen - Harelbeke | Belgium | 328 | 328 | 1 | | Gent - Wevelgem | Belgium | 330 | 330 | 1 | | Ronde van Vlaanderen | Belgium | 406 | 406 | 1 | | Paris - Roubaix | France | 413 | 413 | 1 | | Amstel Gold Race | Netherlands | 420 | 420 | 1 | | Liège - Bastogne - Liège | Belgium | 427 | 427 | 1 | | Giro d'Italia | Italy | 505 | 525 | 21 | | Tour of Mount Fuji | Japan | 604 | 608 | 5 | | Deutschland Tour | Germany | 607 | 615 | 9 | | La Descente Pavée | France | 619 | 619 | 1 | | Tour de France | France | 701 | 721 | 21 | | Tour of Norhtern Europe | Sweden | 811 | 818 | 8 | | USA Pro Cycling Challenge | USA | 818 | 824 | 7 | | Vuelta a España | Spain | 901 | 921 | 21 | | Quebec Sprint Challenge | Canada | 910 | 910 | 1 | | Course de la Paix | Czech Republic | 915 | 920 | 6 | | Bucaramanga Classic | Colombia | 1001 | 1001 | 1 | | Il Lombardia | Italy | 1005 | 1005 | 1 |
CT
Spoiler | Race | Country | StartDate | EndDate | Stages | | Vuelta a Mallorca | Spain | 209 | 212 | 4 | | Volta ao Algarve | Portugal | 219 | 222 | 4 | | National Capital Tour | Australia | 220 | 223 | 4 | | Clasica di Tirreno - Adriatico | Italy | 305 | 305 | 1 | | Paris - Nice | France | 309 | 316 | 8 | | Roma Maxima | Italy | 310 | 310 | 1 | | Istrian Spring Trophy | Croatia | 320 | 323 | 4 | | København Byrundtur | Danmark | 325 | 325 | 1 | | Critérium International | France | 328 | 330 | 3 | | Wallonië Prijs | Belgium | 403 | 403 | 1 | | Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco | Spain | 407 | 412 | 6 | | Ster ZLM Tour | Netherlands | 419 | 423 | 5 | | La Flèche Wallonne | Belgium | 423 | 423 | 1 | | Colombia Team GP | Colombia | 430 | 430 | 1 | | Tour de Romandie | Switzerland | 502 | 507 | 6 | | Amgen Tour of California | USA | 513 | 520 | 8 | | Tour d'Andorra | Andorra | 523 | 527 | 5 | | World Ports Classic | Netherlands | 524 | 525 | 2 | | Tour des Fjords | Norway | 527 | 530 | 4 | | La Jurassaine | Switzerland | 602 | 602 | 1 | | Tour de Suisse | Switzerland | 614 | 622 | 9 | | Rheinland-Pfalz Rundfahrt | Germany | 617 | 621 | 5 | | Le Géant de Provence | France | 628 | 628 | 1 | | Int. Österreich-Rundfahrt | Austria | 710 | 717 | 8 | | Tour of Vancouver | Canada | 719 | 725 | 7 | | Volta a Portugal | Portugal | 801 | 811 | 11 | | Tour de Pologne | Poland | 801 | 807 | 7 | | Tour of Utah | USA | 809 | 814 | 6 | | Vuelta a Colombia | Colombia | 809 | 823 | 15 | | RideLondon–Surrey Classic | Britain | 810 | 810 | 1 | | Criterium Hainleite | Germany | 822 | 822 | 1 | | Post Danmark Rundt | Danmark | 825 | 830 | 6 | | Tour of Britain | Britain | 910 | 917 | 8 | | Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec | Canada | 912 | 912 | 1 | | Praha - Karlovy Vary - Praha | Czech Republic | 912 | 912 | 1 | | Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal | Canada | 914 | 914 | 1 | | Milano - Torino | Italy | 1001 | 1001 | 1 | | Tour d'Indonesia | Indonesia | 1012 | 1017 | 6 | | Paris - Tours | France | 1012 | 1012 | 1 | | Chrono des Nations | France | 1019 | 1019 | 1 | | Japan Cup | Japan | 1021 | 1021 | 1 |
U25
Spoiler | Race | Country | StartDate | EndDate | Stages | | Ronde van Vlaanderen Espoirs | Belgium | 404 | 404 | 1 | | La Côte Picarde | France | 416 | 416 | 1 | | ZLM Tour | Netherlands | 418 | 418 | 1 | | GP Palio del Recioto | Italy | 424 | 424 | 1 | | Liége - Bastogne - Liège Espoirs | Belgium | 426 | 426 | 1 | | Rund um den Finanzplatz Eschborn-Frankfurt U25 | Germany | 501 | 501 | 1 | | Carpathian Couriers Race | Poland | 508 | 512 | 5 | | Paris - Roubaix U25 | France | 601 | 601 | 1 | | Course de la Paix - Závod MÃru | Czech Republic | 604 | 608 | 5 | | Tour de Berlin | Germany | 609 | 613 | 5 | | Coupe des Nations Ville Saguenay | Canada | 624 | 626 | 3 | | Internationale Thüringen-Rundfahrt | Germany | 701 | 708 | 8 | | Tour de l'Avenir | France | 901 | 908 | 8 | | Paris-Tours Espoirs | France | 1010 | 1010 | 1 |
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| Silvio Herklotz |
Posted on 03-11-2014 18:36
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Another slightly cobbled stage race in WT would be ok with me, but we already have Omloop, E3, Gent-Wevelgem, Ronde and Paris Roubaix, so that shouldn't be too less cobbled classics.. Don't forget there are already cobbles in ToNE.
As African race we could just use Tropicale Amissa Bongo. Or did you think of a fantasy one?
Personally, I didn't like USAPCC so much, so I would consider putting it down to CT.
On another topic: Are you sure you want to put so much effort in the stages? I really appreciate your will to make everything as good as possible, however, I don't think new routes are needed so much as the race appears to us only as a result. From my point of view, that effort doesn't fit in your "simple and fast"-pattern of the game. Why don't we just take alternative versions for those races we have some for - and for the others, we use the same again?
Edited by Silvio Herklotz on 03-11-2014 18:37
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 03-11-2014 20:30
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Tour de France Champion
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African races: Tour of Eritrea, Tropicale (although personally i don't like it), Tour of South Africa, Tour de Faso... Man-Game has quite a few to chose from
Cobbles: Lincoln GP is always a favorite of mine, Cobbled Battenkill is fun, Bahir Dar... Basically something outside Belgium 
Personally i'd like to see a GT at CT level, perhaps in replace of Portugal. There's a GT of America or you could easily put together a series of stages to make one.
I agree with Silvio on the variants stuff. For a "fast paced" game it's way too much effort. You can find variants for most normal stage races, but the large number of "fantasy" races means there is a limited number of variants. I'd just either run the same routes or use brand new races.
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 03-11-2014 20:37
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For a cobbled stage race, you could find a variant of Eneco Tour or tour de Benelux, either of those races could have cobblestones.
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| matt17br |
Posted on 03-11-2014 20:59
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I personally totally agree with TMM on the stages. I'd also consider adding'' la descente pave'' of Jesley's db, or the Roma Maxima with unpaved finish variant.
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| The Rider |
Posted on 03-11-2014 21:00
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I will kick this off with some races we could use for the dev team calendar. Most races, as they probably should be, will be less distance than the usuals:
Tour of Tobago:
Cascade Cycling Classic:
Chrono San Michel:
Tour of Estonia:
Copa America de Ciclismo:
I think Bikex is after a more international feel to the calendar and these races fit that. These races could replace the Coupe des Nations Ville Saguenay and some of the many French races on the dev. calendar.
For a cobbled stage race, it may be best to take a cobbled one day stage (like the Lincoln GP) and lump it into a stage race.
I kind of agree with the others, not too much needs to change with the calendar. I would like to see the .xml files changed for the Vuelta though, maybe something similar to Le Tour but with bonifications.
-- Maybe off topic at the moment but, for me, the major obstacle to the ICL progressing faster is some of the people. Next season you have to be stricter with your deadlines, Bikex. If I was away for two weeks I wouldn't mind if I missed a deadline for something, as long as I wasn't thrown out the game! At the moment people will take two/three weeks to do something that takes no more than 5 mins because they know you are lenient.
( By the way all above stages are found in MarghNorway's and SN's 2013 stages threads.) |
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| Cyclotron |
Posted on 03-11-2014 21:34
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matt17br wrote:
I personally totally agree with TMM on the stages. I'd also consider adding'' la descente pave'' of Jesley's db, or the Roma Maxima with unpaved finish variant.
La descente Pave was in the calendar last season. The pcm ai couldnt handle it and a breakaway won. Maybe Bahir Dar could replace it; it's also an african race i think.
Also really liking the riders suggestions.
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| Luis Leon Sanchez |
Posted on 04-11-2014 00:14
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Add Tirreno-Adriatico in, put either it or Paris-Nice in WT.
Remove wither Volta a Portugal or Vuelta a Colombia from CT and replace with the Man Game Tour of America.
A cobbled WT stage race could be the Tour of Northern Europe and then relegate Eneco to CT.
African Races include: Tropicale, Kenya Mountain Classic, Tour of Eritrea, Tour of South Africa and Giro del Capo.
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| Dippofix |
Posted on 04-11-2014 17:23
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Most of The Riders races look really nice and add to the international flair... Cascade maybe a bit too long though? I'm not sure myself, maybe there are U23 races of that length IRL too.
Also, I was planning on making a "Crit International" style Tour of Bishkek (Or Kyrgyzstan/Central Asia as a whole, not sure yet) consisting of a TT, a flat stage and a hilly stage, if you might be interested in that for the dev team races?
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| knockout |
Posted on 04-11-2014 17:38
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7735
Joined: 21-12-2010
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My thoughts on the WT calender:
- another sprinter race (a classic (Paris-Tours?) or Tour (qatar with a very short or better no TT?) would be nice though I'm biased at this point. But perhaps look at the amount of RD Kittel had to race in the CT because there were not good enough alternatives in the WT. Either Giro or Tour should be much more sprinter-friendly.
- Really liked the Tour of Toowoomba. The combination of a hilly stage race with a TTT and also sprinter stages was great to watch.
- There is no real need for another cobbled stage race. Just make the ToNE a bit more difficult so that the cobbles will have a bigger impact than the hills/TT. Perhaps add another cobbled classic like Lincoln GP or Bahir Dar. Bahir Dar would also please your wish for an african race.
- Delete/replace Descente Pavee. AI was not good enough.
- a single TT / TTT event would be kinda cool.
- A cobbled TT (as in Tour of Estonia, proposed by The Rider) in a stage race (ToNE?) would be kinda cool.
- i think a triple header would be cool as teams with a good team depth but without the one big leader could profit. Perhaps Mount Fuji, Deutschland Tour, USAPCC at the same time.
-agree with most guys: each season a completely new calender with race organisateurs ... isnt necessary. I prefer fast seasons. If you stay with your idea though, i could do deutschland tour.
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| JoeArmstrong13 |
Posted on 04-11-2014 17:42
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I think the Lincoln GP would be a good addition to the calendar.
As for the African stage race, I think that a Tour of Kenya would be good as a way to show appreciation four Chris Froome and to allow Kenyan talent to watch the best cyclists in the world.
EDIT: I think the Tour Series or a Crit Racing series from around the world would be good as it means that cycling could be accessible to people around the world.
Also a race focused on the Team Classification like the Tour Series I think would be a good idea, as it means teams will be stronger in smaller races.
Edited by JoeArmstrong13 on 04-11-2014 17:44
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| Bikex |
Posted on 07-11-2014 17:27
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Thanks for your ideas, I include the suggested races tomorrow in post #2.
About the race routes for 2015. I don't think it's too complicated to make a variant and also I don't expect one for every race. So knockout I'm looking forward to your ideas for Deutschland Rundfahrt 2015.
Keep suggesting races!
I now made the pre transfers DB: https://www.mediafire.com/?209aymhcku...mhcku7808j
You might noticed that some riders progressed more than in your training sheet I adjusted the formulas a little bit to what I initially wanted. Also included are the declines of riders.
I'll try to do the rider renewal sheets in the next two days. My idea is that it is possible to "steal" a rider from another by offering him a contract with a way higher wage than the team he currently is in does.
The riders will demand a specific wage to prolong. You will be able to agree right away or to negotiate. I think it will work similar to how it is in the MG. So what do you think? |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 07-11-2014 17:44
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World Champion
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Bikex wrote:
I now made the pre transfers DB: https://www.mediafire.com/?209aymhcku...mhcku7808j
You might noticed that some riders progressed more than in your training sheet I adjusted the formulas a little bit to what I initially wanted. Also included are the declines of riders.
Hmm, need to take a look at this. I went for some weird training schedules (a few kamikazes) because riders wouldn't progress in anything but descending. Is it possible that with the new formula these riders could've been trained in a better stat?
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Bikex |
Posted on 07-11-2014 17:51
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Ollfardh wrote:
Bikex wrote:
I now made the pre transfers DB: https://www.mediafire.com/?209aymhcku...mhcku7808j
You might noticed that some riders progressed more than in your training sheet I adjusted the formulas a little bit to what I initially wanted. Also included are the declines of riders.
Hmm, need to take a look at this. I went for some weird training schedules (a few kamikazes) because riders wouldn't progress in anything but descending. Is it possible that with the new formula these riders could've been trained in a better stat?
It shouldn't change much it just makes the riders progress faster, but the stats increase on the same ratio. If you want I can upload a training selection sheet with the new points.
Sorry for making a change in the formulas after the training. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 07-11-2014 17:58
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World Champion
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Bikex wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
Bikex wrote:
I now made the pre transfers DB: https://www.mediafire.com/?209aymhcku...mhcku7808j
You might noticed that some riders progressed more than in your training sheet I adjusted the formulas a little bit to what I initially wanted. Also included are the declines of riders.
Hmm, need to take a look at this. I went for some weird training schedules (a few kamikazes) because riders wouldn't progress in anything but descending. Is it possible that with the new formula these riders could've been trained in a better stat?
It shouldn't change much it just makes the riders progress faster, but the stats increase on the same ratio. If you want I can upload a training selection sheet with the new points.
Sorry for making a change in the formulas after the training.
No it's ok, I won't be able to access it until next week and I don't want to slow down the game. It's the same for everyone I guess 
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| knockout |
Posted on 07-11-2014 18:31
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7735
Joined: 21-12-2010
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Bikex wrote:
I'll try to do the rider renewal sheets in the next two days. My idea is that it is possible to "steal" a rider from another by offering him a contract with a way higher wage than the team he currently is in does.
I'm against this. Teams should have a real chance to keep a rider if they want to do this. If you want to give teams the chance for steals then give the current team of the rider the chance to block this by raising their offer to a higher level like: "Philippe Gilbert has a current wage of 525. A team offers him a contract of 1000. If you want to keep him you have to raise your offer to 800."
Still, i prefer no steals.
The riders will demand a specific wage to prolong. You will be able to agree right away or to negotiate. I think it will work similar to how it is in the MG. So what do you think?
Sounds good. Just be sure that you explain it in detail beforehand. Details like the amount of negotiation rounds, chances of negotiating (=average difference between specific wage and best possible wage, amount of cyclists that you can negotiate their wages for, deciding aspects for the requested wage).
It should not depend too much on luck to guess the possible wage cut correctly..)
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| Silvio Herklotz |
Posted on 07-11-2014 18:52
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knockout wrote:
Bikex wrote:
I'll try to do the rider renewal sheets in the next two days. My idea is that it is possible to "steal" a rider from another by offering him a contract with a way higher wage than the team he currently is in does.
I'm against this. Teams should have a real chance to keep a rider if they want to do this. If you want to give teams the chance for steals then give the current team of the rider the chance to block this by raising their offer to a higher level like: "Philippe Gilbert has a current wage of 525. A team offers him a contract of 1000. If you want to keep him you have to raise your offer to 800."
Still, i prefer no steals.
The riders will demand a specific wage to prolong. You will be able to agree right away or to negotiate. I think it will work similar to how it is in the MG. So what do you think?
Sounds good. Just be sure that you explain it in detail beforehand. Details like the amount of negotiation rounds, chances of negotiating (=average difference between specific wage and best possible wage, amount of cyclists that you can negotiate their wages for, deciding aspects for the requested wage).
It should not depend too much on luck to guess the possible wage cut correctly..)
I agree with all of this, but just want to add: Please, please, no steals. And that system of "A wants to steal, so B has to pay more" I don't like either, because then we could bring anybody we don't like in big trouble by trying to steal his riders..
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 07-11-2014 18:55
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World Champion
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Silvio Herklotz wrote:
knockout wrote:
Bikex wrote:
I'll try to do the rider renewal sheets in the next two days. My idea is that it is possible to "steal" a rider from another by offering him a contract with a way higher wage than the team he currently is in does.
I'm against this. Teams should have a real chance to keep a rider if they want to do this. If you want to give teams the chance for steals then give the current team of the rider the chance to block this by raising their offer to a higher level like: "Philippe Gilbert has a current wage of 525. A team offers him a contract of 1000. If you want to keep him you have to raise your offer to 800."
Still, i prefer no steals.
The riders will demand a specific wage to prolong. You will be able to agree right away or to negotiate. I think it will work similar to how it is in the MG. So what do you think?
Sounds good. Just be sure that you explain it in detail beforehand. Details like the amount of negotiation rounds, chances of negotiating (=average difference between specific wage and best possible wage, amount of cyclists that you can negotiate their wages for, deciding aspects for the requested wage).
It should not depend too much on luck to guess the possible wage cut correctly..)
I agree with all of this, but just want to add: Please, please, no steals. And that system of "A wants to steal, so B has to pay more" I don't like either, because then we could bring anybody we don't like in big trouble by trying to steal his riders..
I also don't agree with stealing for that exact and only reason  |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
