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Doping in cycling, is it really?
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| dienblad |
Posted on 25-03-2012 02:40
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After some press releases in the Netherlands about some new "wonder" doping, called Aicar, that can't be seen in tests untill now, I've started to look at the cycling races a bit different. I was looking with the question: "Do cyclists (and because of the usage price, it has to be the leaders in cycling) really use this?". Some facts, from my side:
- Omloop: Vanmarcke, Boonen and Flecha were the strongest, with Vanmarcke being the surprise.
- KBK: mass sprint, won by Cav
- Paris - Nice: surprising Westra, winning Wiggins.
- Tirreno: small margins, Top 3 with Nibali, Horner and Kreuziger
- MSR: surprising Gerrans (already winning TDU), great Cancellara, and a fairly large group
- E3-Prijs: bunch sprint
- Catalunya: no excelling riders, a lot of bunch sprints.
Concluding: no dominant riders or teams, some surprises (Vanmarcke, although showing great form in Dwars Door Vlaanderen and E3, and Westra), and a ot of bunch sprints.
So 2 possibilities: everybody uses, or noone uses.....
I would say: no dope-users, possibly some exceptions....
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| CountArach |
Posted on 25-03-2012 02:50
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Saying that there are no dopers is incredibly optimistic but riders appear to be more human. I'd say that the sport has cleaned up quite a bit but isn't 100% clean.
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| Thomas |
Posted on 25-03-2012 02:55
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I like this conclusion of yours..
"So 2 possibilities: everybody uses, or noone uses.....
I would say: no dope-users, possibly some exceptions...."
I'm sorry but nothing made sense in your comment. Make that your examples, conclusions or main theme that is some kind of doping product.
Edited by Thomas on 25-03-2012 02:55
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 25-03-2012 03:27
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The only flaw that you have with your thought is that not everyone is the same ability. One rider theoretically would be worse than one rider, and if he used dope, he could theoretically be just as good as the other rider now that doesn't use dope.
Edited by valverde321 on 25-03-2012 04:09
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Posted on 25-11-2024 03:50
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| lluuiiggii |
Posted on 25-03-2012 04:00
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valverde321 wrote:
The only flaw that you have with your thought is that now everyone is the same ability. One rider theoretically would be worse than one rider, and if he used dope, he could theoretically be just as good as the other rider now that doesn't use dope.
That, and also the fact that not every rider dope equally and doping can have different effect on different bodies.
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| canojuancho |
Posted on 25-03-2012 05:37
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Maybe for you vanmarcke is a surprise, but not for me. Boonen make a mistake sprinting to early. In E3 prijs, vanmacke went on the boonen's attack. Gerrans either was a surprise, cancellara spend a lot of energy in the breakaway and then at the final fifth kms, so, gerrans was more fresh. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 25-03-2012 08:12
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Aicar ? Among other effects, that makes you extremely thin. Ask yourself which riders have lost really a lot of weight these last few years. First time there's been talks of its use by top riders was in 2009.
Edited by Aquarius on 25-03-2012 08:12
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| kumazan |
Posted on 25-03-2012 10:57
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I would say the peloton is cleaner now, but not in quantity of dopers, but in quality of doping. The blood passport has made impossible the 500ml blood transfusions, and of course they can't ride with EPO coming out their ears anymore, but that's about it. It's still a good improvement though.
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| fenian_1234 |
Posted on 25-03-2012 11:05
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Most of the time, I can't be bothered talking about or thinking about doping in cycling. For me it's entertainment and such thoughts tend to spoil my enjoyment.
But, I think it a bit perverse that we are expected to believe (top level) cycling is becoming cleaner when more money is coming into it from mega-sponsors and World Tour points are becoming so crucial to everyone in securing contracts. Bit of a no-brainer that if there's a drug/s that's undetecable some are going to be on it.
On a more positive note, I find it strangely re-assuring that Gilbert is struggling to fit in at Phonak. 
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| dienblad |
Posted on 25-03-2012 11:08
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Okay, maybe I wasn't clear in what I wanted to say (I'll blame the glasses of wine for it).
So another try:
A Dutch cycling journalist (Raymond Kerckhoffs) recently published an article about Aicar, that it was a "new" wonder drug in cycling. It should have been used since the Olympics in 2008, I believe in swimming, and also in cycling (appearing of very thin cyclists, as it is a side-effect of Aicar). He published his article this late, because he wanted to complete his research.
He also stated that Aicar could only been used on incidental base, and only by a select group in the top ranks of cycling. This because of the enormous costs (ten thousands of euros). And since it's been untracable so far, it's unsure who uses it and who doesn't.
So that's why I looked at the results this year so far, and to my opinion, there isn't a rider who is really better than the rest (like Gilbert last year, absolutely NOT saying that this was because of dope). Every race, some riders excel (Vanmarcke in OHN, Cancellara & Gerrans in MSR, Westra and Wiggins in PN, Omega Pharma in many race), but the time gaps are very small and there are many bunch sprints.
So my statement is, that I believe that the peloton is very clean (with of course some exceptions), and I don't think / believe / hope that a product like Aicard has found it's way into the peloton in big scale. Some can say my statements are not legible, but that is what I believe!
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| kumazan |
Posted on 25-03-2012 11:17
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So you think the peloton has all of a sudden decided that they'll ride clean, just because, and in spite of well known doping doctors still in the game? If so, then you're adopting an extremely idealistic approach, but hey, whatever.
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| Wilier |
Posted on 25-03-2012 11:55
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I usually don't think of doping. But when I do, i understand that there will always be rotten apples in the peloton. |
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| dienblad |
Posted on 25-03-2012 12:15
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kumazan wrote:
So you think the peloton has all of a sudden decided that they'll ride clean, just because, and in spite of well known doping doctors still in the game? If so, then you're adopting an extremely idealistic approach, but hey, whatever.
No, I don't think they've suddeny decided to be clean. I think that becuase of the doping hunt and the moral of many teams, fewer riders use doping. Just as Wilier says, there will always be rotten apples, but the peloton has become cleaner in general.
At least, I want to believe this.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 28-05-2012 20:19
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Cycling is one of the cleanest sports today. Of course, there are exceptions, but most are okay. The all take a legal allowed amount of doping, but without some, you can't survive TDF. But it is a lot cleaner than it used to be! |
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| felix_29 |
Posted on 28-05-2012 20:27
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Ian Butler wrote:
Cycling is one of the cleanest sports today. Of course, there are exceptions, but most are okay. The all take a legal allowed amount of doping, but without some, you can't survive TDF. But it is a lot cleaner than it used to be!
1. When all cyclist dope, it can´t be cleaner than any other sport, only just as clean.
2. Legal doping? What´s that?
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 28-05-2012 20:33
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felix_29 wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Cycling is one of the cleanest sports today. Of course, there are exceptions, but most are okay. The all take a legal allowed amount of doping, but without some, you can't survive TDF. But it is a lot cleaner than it used to be!
1. When all cyclist dope, it can´t be cleaner than any other sport, only just as clean.
2. Legal doping? What´s that?
You misunderstood me. What I mean is, that a certain amount of a certain chemical substance is allowed. I mean, you can't ride TDF on water alone, let's be realistic. But there are hardly any riders who go above the allowed amount. I hope you understand what I'm saying, I might not be so clear because I'm not English-speaking. |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 28-05-2012 20:46
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I think that if people dedicate their whole lives to something, and then find that they are half a percentage point away from being the very best, and there is a trick that will take them to the top, and make their whole life worthwhile. It's illegal, but you probably won't get caught. There are other people out there beating you with the help of this trick. It's a strong person who resists that temptation.
I hope that most people are clean. But I strongly doubt that everyone is.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| felix_29 |
Posted on 28-05-2012 20:54
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Ian Butler wrote:
felix_29 wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Cycling is one of the cleanest sports today. Of course, there are exceptions, but most are okay. The all take a legal allowed amount of doping, but without some, you can't survive TDF. But it is a lot cleaner than it used to be!
1. When all cyclist dope, it can´t be cleaner than any other sport, only just as clean.
2. Legal doping? What´s that?
You misunderstood me. What I mean is, that a certain amount of a certain chemical substance is allowed. I mean, you can't ride TDF on water alone, let's be realistic. But there are hardly any riders who go above the allowed amount. I hope you understand what I'm saying, I might not be so clear because I'm not English-speaking.
I think you mean riders take an amount that won´t mean a positive test, although they are not allowed to use the substance.
And i think there are quite a few riders who also ride the TdF etc. totally clean, as you´d say on water alone.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 28-05-2012 20:58
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felix_29 wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
felix_29 wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Cycling is one of the cleanest sports today. Of course, there are exceptions, but most are okay. The all take a legal allowed amount of doping, but without some, you can't survive TDF. But it is a lot cleaner than it used to be!
1. When all cyclist dope, it can´t be cleaner than any other sport, only just as clean.
2. Legal doping? What´s that?
You misunderstood me. What I mean is, that a certain amount of a certain chemical substance is allowed. I mean, you can't ride TDF on water alone, let's be realistic. But there are hardly any riders who go above the allowed amount. I hope you understand what I'm saying, I might not be so clear because I'm not English-speaking.
I think you mean riders take an amount that won´t mean a positive test, although they are not allowed to use the substance.
And i think there are quite a few riders who also ride the TdF etc. totally clean, as you´d say on water alone.
No, I'm pretty sure riders are allowed taking an amount of certain substances. Just to give an example, you can't have a male rider with 0% testosteron, you see? So of course, everyone makes sure their their percentage of testosteron is the allowed percentage. But that isn't dopin, strictly speaking. |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 28-05-2012 21:13
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That is doping, strictly speaking.
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