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Stricter Activity Disbands
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| ManGame-Admin |
Posted on 04-02-2025 09:35
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 1186
Joined: 28-05-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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This is a topic that we have been having discussions on for a long time, and we believe it is finally time to address it, so that the game can be more organic and more enjoyable.
The MG thrives because of the incredible community that makes it fun and engaging. Behind the scenes, a dedicated group of people work hard to keep things running smoothly—entirely on a voluntary basis. For the game to continue at its best, regular participation is essential. When activity drops, it affects the experience for everyone and can feel discouraging to those putting in so much effort. We understand that life gets busy, but taking just a few moments to stay engaged helps keep MG alive and enjoyable for all.
We do not expect managers to be online everyday, or even week. But it's not that hard to come online once a month or in 6 weeks to post on a few races. It's a 15 minute activity at most! We have noticed that some managers are not able to do this small part, and in certain cases, this has been going on for multiple seasons.
The following are the types on inactivity that we have identified and will be taking action on:
1) Minimal activity including transfers
2) Only active during transfers
3) Minimal activity other than transfers (prime example being showing up only for Avenir, NC, WC nominations, etc.)
4) Consistently missing task deadlines
If you fall in the first category, it will be an automatic disband, no questions asked. As of now, there are no managers that fall in this category this season. If you are in the second category, you are also most likely to be in the firing line. Category 3 gets you some leeway but can still lead to disbands, especially if we have more new managers looking to join, and if it repeats over multiple seasons. We have to point out that there certain managers who have consistently been in Category 3 for multiple seasons now! Category 4 is not being considered for this season's disbands but will be starting with the deadlines for the upcoming off season and beyond.
We do not wish to have to disband anyone for these reasons, and neither do we enjoy doing this, but in certain cases all the pleading and consideration have fallen on deaf years, so we have to start taking action.
Managers who are currently in category 2 and 3 according to our assessment will be informed via PM some time today or in the next few days. We would request you to be more active going ahead, or else we would have to disband you. |
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| hillis91 |
Posted on 04-02-2025 09:39
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Team Leader
Posts: 5920
Joined: 30-11-2006
PCM$: 1500.00
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About time i would say.
Great that this gets adressed and given clear guidelines for all to steer by.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 15-03-2025 02:26
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 04-02-2025 10:27
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World Champion
Posts: 14738
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 10300.00
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Agreed, nothing more annoying then people not commenting on races. While I get people have other priorities, there are some who have been very inactive for a few years now and I hope this is a wake up call for them.
Another point I want to raise is that some people are active, but not helping. Even with limited time, I feel everyone can do 2-3 previews a year to help out the increasingly smaller group of reporters.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 04-02-2025 12:02
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2967
Joined: 09-05-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Honestly, I'm all in for stricter criteria - not knowing who will continue or not is irritating especially for managers who don't know in which division they'll be in for next season.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 04-02-2025 13:25
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16566
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10938.70
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This makes sense and is the only way to keep reporters and those helping behind the scenes getting the activity they deserve for their efforts, so I get it. Activity has always been the responsibility of the manager anyway, and those who have been around a while know that it used to be held accountable very quickly.
I only hope we can get enough new, active managers to make it work. I don't want to see this game collapse for lack of participants.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Blasing |
Posted on 04-02-2025 16:55
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 293
Joined: 27-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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My activity this year certainly hasn't been the best, but I follow every race we take part in and read results, most times also commenting in the discussion thread.
For me personally I have to say however, that the kind of structure makes it a bit hard to interact. I often have 502 Bad gateway errors when trying to reach the forum. Also it is way too complicated in my eyes to have a structured team HQ.
I think with the working community that the MG has, it would be off way better when using Discord or similar platforms instead of a forum. I mean it is not 2005 anymore.
I think the abilities Discord gives you are much better. It's easier to post, pretty much everybody uses it for some reason already and another server would make it quite easier.
The board can still be used for race results, announcements and all this stuff. But Team HQs and race discussion threads would be a way better fit in Discord.
And I am not even talking about transers yet... I mean a limit for threads before some old ones need to be deleted in order to be able to create new ones? That's only a thing if you don't go with time.
I for my part would find it way easier to be more active and engaging when using Discord instead of an old forum.
Manager of JEWA TIROL Cycling Team
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| Imladrik |
Posted on 04-02-2025 17:18
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 906
Joined: 05-10-2021
PCM$: 600.00
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Liking the clear guidelines, thank you!
But sorry, I'm mostly here to disagree strongly with Blasing. Discord is chat. It's not really useable to structred discussions, and it's hurtful to read anything long on it. Also, notifications everywhere.
Though the forum could be rejuvinated, going on discord would be a clear no go for me.
“...the secret of the Great Stories is that they have no secrets. The Great Stories are the ones you have heard and want to hear again. The ones you can enter anywhere and inhabit comfortably."
A. Roy
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 04-02-2025 17:31
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World Champion
Posts: 14738
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 10300.00
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Strong vote against Discord as well.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| SotD |
Posted on 04-02-2025 17:47
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World Champion
Posts: 12267
Joined: 29-11-2006
PCM$: 2980.00
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I Think this is a great effort in keeping the game active and interesting for everyone. IMO a very active 2-division game beats a dull 3-division game every day of the week.
In addition to the above I would ask if we could have a look into the calender system. It’s hugely discouraging to have long periods of time without racing, and that Can dump motivation I would say. So maybe we could either A) Make sure that all teams have atleast 1 race pr. 14 days Man-Game calender, or B) Make eg. Grand Tours be riden in 10 days real time.
The latter is difficult because we add strain on reporters to do faster work, so this would obviously need to be accepted by those, but A) should be possible to plan around with different categories. F.e. removing the vast “free Pick” in HC, C1 and C2 category and pooling them like PTHC and HC bands.
Could also be 1-2 forced races in all divisions and not only at PT Level to ensure this.
Another idea (that have been suggested before) could be to allow only planning the first half during off season, and the latter part during the first half.
This would obviously come at a risk that some teams would dissapear halfway - but it would also throw Them Way Down in the rankings, so the actually active managers getting a bump upwards. I’m unsure how promotion/relegation would differ from our current situation, but again I feel pretty certain that we Can plan around it.
The more motivations and activity bound efforts the better imo as they create talks between managers.
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| quadsas |
Posted on 04-02-2025 19:56
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2570
Joined: 18-01-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Imladrik wrote:
Liking the clear guidelines, thank you!
But sorry, I'm mostly here to disagree strongly with Blasing. Discord is chat. It's not really useable to structred discussions, and it's hurtful to read anything long on it. Also, notifications everywhere.
Though the forum could be rejuvinated, going on discord would be a clear no go for me.
I am sorry discord hurt you
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| sammyt93 |
Posted on 04-02-2025 20:03
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3648
Joined: 03-07-2012
PCM$: 300.00
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SotD wrote:
I Think this is a great effort in keeping the game active and interesting for everyone. IMO a very active 2-division game beats a dull 3-division game every day of the week.
In addition to the above I would ask if we could have a look into the calender system. It’s hugely discouraging to have long periods of time without racing, and that Can dump motivation I would say. So maybe we could either A) Make sure that all teams have atleast 1 race pr. 14 days Man-Game calender, or B) Make eg. Grand Tours be riden in 10 days real time.
The latter is difficult because we add strain on reporters to do faster work, so this would obviously need to be accepted by those, but A) should be possible to plan around with different categories. F.e. removing the vast “free Pick” in HC, C1 and C2 category and pooling them like PTHC and HC bands.
Could also be 1-2 forced races in all divisions and not only at PT Level to ensure this.
Another idea (that have been suggested before) could be to allow only planning the first half during off season, and the latter part during the first half.
This would obviously come at a risk that some teams would dissapear halfway - but it would also throw Them Way Down in the rankings, so the actually active managers getting a bump upwards. I’m unsure how promotion/relegation would differ from our current situation, but again I feel pretty certain that we Can plan around it.
The more motivations and activity bound efforts the better imo as they create talks between managers.
About GT's, I think the best way to handle that would be if they were fully raced and reported before they start getting posted, but I fear that could slow down the days leading up to them if not careful about how it's implemented.
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| knockout |
Posted on 04-02-2025 20:54
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7848
Joined: 21-12-2010
PCM$: 500.00
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SotD wrote:
In addition to the above I would ask if we could have a look into the calender system. It’s hugely discouraging to have long periods of time without racing, and that Can dump motivation I would say. So maybe we could either A) Make sure that all teams have atleast 1 race pr. 14 days Man-Game calender, or B) Make eg. Grand Tours be riden in 10 days real time.
One alternative id prefer over bigger calendar changes would be to have the posting order differ more from the calendar. E.g. during the pt triple header, posted reports are very pt heavy while pct teams have basically nothing going on that is relevant for their division. Keeping that triple header in the schedule is a very good idea to complicate planning but i would have no problem posting the three pt races after each and instead post a hc race and a c2 race at the same time as Paris nice.
Or during GTs instead of days with two vuelta stages posted, push up the next c1 classic instead of the second stage.
Of course it isnt perfectly dividable between the divisions whether a c1 race is more for ct or pct but that could chip away some of the downtimes for certain teams a bit.
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 04-02-2025 21:09
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2967
Joined: 09-05-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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SotD wrote:
I Think this is a great effort in keeping the game active and interesting for everyone. IMO a very active 2-division game beats a dull 3-division game every day of the week.
The thing is how such restructuring to 2-division system will work with as many teams as we have now though?
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 04-02-2025 21:26
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World Champion
Posts: 11451
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1120.00
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knockout wrote:
One alternative id prefer over bigger calendar changes would be to have the posting order differ more from the calendar. E.g. during the pt triple header, posted reports are very pt heavy while pct teams have basically nothing going on that is relevant for their division. Keeping that triple header in the schedule is a very good idea to complicate planning but i would have no problem posting the three pt races after each and instead post a hc race and a c2 race at the same time as Paris nice.
Or during GTs instead of days with two vuelta stages posted, push up the next c1 classic instead of the second stage.
Of course it isnt perfectly dividable between the divisions whether a c1 race is more for ct or pct but that could chip away some of the downtimes for certain teams a bit.
I think this is a really important point and good idea and just want to repost to reiterate support for it. I know it's more work to plan this (and as others have said would be greatly helped by more reporters and more non-reporters helping with things like preview writing) but if it helps managers, particularly (P)CT managers, stay engaged, then it could be worth the effort.
Spoiler Could also be in support of actually changing the calendar balance of races - I don't think perfect spread is possible or even necessary but most years I've found my calendar to be heavily front or backloaded or to have huge stretches of both RL and MG time with no racing. Obviously I'd like to be doing better activity-wise (not that I'm a manager who falls into any category in the first post) and part of it is just my fault, but those stretches have definitely hurt my motivation to keep engaged from time to time.
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
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2x  x2
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 04-02-2025 21:27
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Team Manager
Posts: 6600
Joined: 14-09-2008
PCM$: 1290.00
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I think there's a fairly broad consensus against Discord, at least as the main platform (the subject has been brought up before, too), but fwiw: There's definitely the intention from the admin side to streamline the forum, with an improved ManGame "experience" as one of the main points of emphasis. I realize this might ring a bit hollow, given nothing has happend so far since the initial announcements a few months ago, and so I won't commit to a specific timeline, but it generally is in the works.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 04-02-2025 21:54
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18206
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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ivaneurope wrote:
SotD wrote:
I Think this is a great effort in keeping the game active and interesting for everyone. IMO a very active 2-division game beats a dull 3-division game every day of the week.
The thing is how such restructuring to 2-division system will work with as many teams as we have now though?
Wouldn't want to go too far off the direct topic - but i've been calling for a wider structural change for a couple of years now.
After various disbands you could absord the remaining CT teams into an expanded PCT. Reduce the dedicated PT calendar to expand the PTHC calendar to accomodate more PCT teams and maintain the cross-division racing which is hugely beneficial. Cut what is currentlly HC to bring C2 to a PCT only catagory. Slim a few more RD off the PT calendar and give them a set number of C1 RD to use, replacing the current PCT-in-C2. With that you grow some of the Points gaps between the levels of races, and do the same for XP.
That should give weaker PCT teams room to work as developing squads, able to put their best into lower scoring C2, whilst good PCT teams are forced to hunt points in higher C1/PTHC. Idk, there's a ton of detail to be worked through there, but we'd cut like 140 RD out of the reporting schedule (and some more aggressive changes could push that number towards 160).
Reducing pressure on reporters, which in turn helps speed the game up a touch. Should have managers racing more frequently, helping keep up overall momentum & engagement.
Doing that i'd also explore some wider variety to Goals, or some other way to get lower end PCT teams hyped. Nothing saps motivation like sucking for a loooong time. Combat that with speeding up the season, or finding secondary generators of interest (such as widening Points gaps between race classes to encourage better riders to higher end races, could be some sort of regional ranking, need to give it more thought).
_________
The catagorizations are pretty fair. There are of course new managers that come in, post a bit, and vanish. We know that, always the case.
I think there has been a growth of longer established managers checking out and just ticking over year to year. This is a bigger issues as they tend to be in the PT or PCT divisions where a lot more of the racing takes place. So the lack of engagement shines through more prominently.
Yeah give people a kick up the ass! Kick some out! But we should be continuing to look at how to make the game more manageable on the reporters side. A game that moves quicker (this isn't a dig at reports btw) will naturally gather more interest and engagement. Power Players get more chances to win, Role Players get more chances to develop interesting stories. Slim it down, slim down the size of reports (another controversial take), and as that speed picks up i'd imagine more people would contrivute to reporting, previews etc.
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I've mentioned Discord before, more in the way of replacing Skype (because, it's 2025, i can't believe anyone is still on Skype!) Make it easier and better to have surrounding MG chat (and then potential to spin off into non-MG chat). Would in turn help fire up engagement.
HQ's, Reports, Forum still exist. Discord just opens up another avenure to talk, and once some people used it you'd see how it could handle even more game aspects. But this and the above calendar/restructure stuff are more Suggestions Thread topics.
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| Bushwackers |
Posted on 04-02-2025 23:39
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Sprinter
Posts: 1924
Joined: 07-02-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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I realize Discord was talked about as recently as the transfer season and it seems the sentiment is still generally against it, but put me down on the list of others who are are interested in incorporating Discord more into the game.
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| Jakstar22 |
Posted on 04-02-2025 23:41
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Team Leader
Posts: 7341
Joined: 11-04-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I think having specific categories and rules for engagement is a great idea! Well done admin!
I also vote against discord purely for the reason that I got to this forum for the MG and I can see everything I need in the one place. I don't want to have to switch between 2 different places to chat about something but then have to go back to the forum to read the report. If that makes sense. The forum may be "outdated" to some but if we use something else like discord or skype, I feel it takes away from the community of PCM.Daily
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 04-02-2025 23:42
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16566
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10938.70
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On the topic on a potential two-division structure to go with culling teams, I just think it's important to flag that any solution that involves reducing teams requires something significant to be done to the DB. If we cut 10-15 teams from the game, all the DB deflation efforts from the past decade are hit hard because the same rider pool is now concentrated in a much smaller pool of teams and, more importantly, races. The same DB spread over two divisions of racing instead of three will, at least in the short term, exacerbate inflation and the AI issues that come with it. Not saying that isn't worth it or perhaps inevitable, but it's something to consider.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Mresuperstar |
Posted on 05-02-2025 00:09
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8081
Joined: 22-06-2009
PCM$: 650.00
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I think this needed to be addressed, so thank you! I know have had spurts of inactivity in the past myself. Life gets messy. But totally support having guidelines in place.
I would personally keep the three tier system and play with the idea of bringing back second teams for active, experienced managers (once a manager shows they can handle multiple offseasons with one team) and either have B dev teams (for an added cost of some sort) or completely new teams.
Easier to stay engaged with two teams in different divisions.
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