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Other Races 2023
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 08-09-2023 19:55
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World Champion
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Kuss winning his third GT of the year feels awkward and almost too good to be true.
If he doesn't crack or Ayuso or Mas don't have a gigantic day, I'm sure both Vingegaard and Roglic are happy to let him have it even though they might be stronger. Kuss was the last man standing in the mountains for every single one of the GT the other two won.
By the way they rode today, it looks clear they want all the 3 risers on the podium.
Also, what a huge day from Gesink. It's been a while since we last saw him being this strong in a mountain stage.
Edited by alexkr00 on 08-09-2023 20:02
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| whitejersey |
Posted on 08-09-2023 21:15
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Classics Specialist
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#GCKUSSSSSSSS
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| Thor Hushovd |
Posted on 12-09-2023 16:37
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Under 23
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Vingegaard proving the doubters and haters wrong once again. People should've learned by now how strong he gets the 2nd and espcially 3rd week of a GT.
I'm sure the narrative on Twitter will now change from being bad or lacking "panache" to being a bad teammate. And the whining from Roglic's fans (who disregard the fact that he's never dropped anyone in the mountains). Today his tactics cost both Vingegaard and Kuss seconds.
Edited by Thor Hushovd on 12-09-2023 16:42
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| Arberg |
Posted on 12-09-2023 16:59
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Neo-Pro
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Vingegaard is the best climber ever! Especially in the third week of a GT. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 21-11-2024 18:39
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| Supernutz |
Posted on 12-09-2023 20:48
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Stagiare
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It's impressive for sure. Vingegaard is now pretty much assured to win the Vuelta...which is impressive and really cements him as the best GC rider there is right now.
Kuss has basically demonstrated that he is a GC rider in his own right...and other teams should be throwing money his way since Jumbo is unlikely to ever let him go for Grand Tours at this point.
It's a waste of Kus' talents to continue just being a super domestique. We will want to see what he can do racing for himself with a team behind him. |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 12-09-2023 23:00
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World Champion
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Not sure what team could offer both good support and the leader role for Kuss.
And there's what he wants. Does he want to be a team leader? I always got the vibe from him that he is happier riding for others and not having to deal with the pressure that comes from leading a team in a GT.
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| whitejersey |
Posted on 12-09-2023 23:37
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Classics Specialist
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Kuss has previously said that he doesn't want to be a main GC guy, he lacks the 100% concentration/dedication to doing that specific part of the job. Being on top of everything for 21 is too tiring and he is just excellent in doing what he does as a top class helper.
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| Supernutz |
Posted on 13-09-2023 01:43
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Stagiare
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What a man says when his job is domestique and depends ENTIRELY on the good will of his GC leader and Team Director may not actually be what he feels in reality...
As a fan, it would be a loss to cycling if he continued to merely be a donkey for Jumbo. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-09-2023 03:30
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Tour de France Champion
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Supernutz wrote:
What a man says when his job is domestique and depends ENTIRELY on the good will of his GC leader and Team Director may not actually be what he feels in reality...
As a fan, it would be a loss to cycling if he continued to merely be a donkey for Jumbo.
This. If he's a team player, he's never going to come out and say he's unhappy and hopes to become a leader, when he knows that opportunity won't come at his current team. And even if he is happy, that doesn't mean he doesn't also want to try out leadership before his peak is over.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 13-09-2023 05:07
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Directeur Sportif
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Supernutz wrote:
What a man says when his job is domestique and depends ENTIRELY on the good will of his GC leader and Team Director may not actually be what he feels in reality...
As a fan, it would be a loss to cycling if he continued to merely be a donkey for Jumbo.
This. If he's a team player, he's never going to come out and say he's unhappy and hopes to become a leader, when he knows that opportunity won't come at his current team. And even if he is happy, that doesn't mean he doesn't also want to try out leadership before his peak is over.
I agree with this but also don't think Kuss is quite at the top level and that he would be fighting for a top 5 not a win if he was a leader in his own right. And he may know that and could have decided he would rather be with a dominant team than be another almost GC guy for a different team.
Man Game: McCormick Pro Cycling |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 13-09-2023 07:59
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World Champion
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Not everyone wants to be promoted to manager/boss though. Some people are just happy enjoying what they are currently doing without the extra worries that come with a higherup position.
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| df_Trek |
Posted on 13-09-2023 09:25
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Small Tour Specialist
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I think that if hindley and carapaz won a GT, Kuss can do it as well, yes the point is what he wants. He said that many times (preference to help than lead) but he wasn't so bad as "leader" this weeks, nor too stressed, and he said also enjoyed the try to stay in the lead.
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| Tamijo |
Posted on 13-09-2023 21:58
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My guess is that he is fine with his role. We have seen many “free Landa” riders, looking very good in theory, but none of them turned out to become the big GC winners. As suggested by others, it’s takes a different rider type to be GC contender in every race. I don’t think he is cut out for that.
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| Supernutz |
Posted on 14-09-2023 12:00
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Stagiare
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I'm sad that Vingegaard missed an opportunity to show respect to a friend.
Yes, he has now pretty much won another grand tour. Impressive.
But he has not yet realized what many of us more experienced folks know...winning cups is not as important as the relationships with our neighbors. Vingegaard had an opportunity on the Angliru to really give something of value to a man who has done A LOT for his career...and he refused to do it.
So, congrats to Vingegaard...he will win an empty cup in Madrid. When he retires, maybe might understand the value of what he disdained yesterday. Maybe not. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 14-09-2023 12:20
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I kinda agree with both sides here. If it was a normal race, he should just give it to Kuss. But it's the Vuelta, you don't just give away a GT. Then again, if he does give it to Kuss, Kuss will be a great help for him the next 10 years and it's not impossible Vingegaard becomes the record holder in TDF wins.
But Vingegaard, it's kinda hard to like him for me. He takes but he does not give back, which we saw in le Tour this year when he didn't want to lead out WVA in that stage Lafay won. Let's see what he does today and on saturday.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Thor Hushovd |
Posted on 14-09-2023 13:35
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Under 23
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Personally I think Vingegaard is ok with Kuss winning, but he really doesn't want Roglic to win. I wish he had stayed with Kuss yesterday, but I get that he has a champion's mentality and all the drama online is way overblown imo. But maybe I'm biased. |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 14-09-2023 14:09
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World Champion
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I guess we'll see today. There's really no reason for either of them to attack today. The stage win goes to the breakaway and the GC podium is secured. There's no reason to attack Kuss if they are happy to let him to win.
I can't blame Vingegaard or Roglic for wanting to win another Grand Tour. I guess it would be really admirable of them to let Kuss have it, but at the same time can't blame them for not gifting a Grand Tour. Maybe gift is a strong word because Kuss deserves to be there at the top, but it's clear he's the third best rider. If they were on three separate teams, both Vingegaard and Roglic would be ahead of Kuss in the GC at this point in my opinion.
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| Supernutz |
Posted on 14-09-2023 14:43
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Stagiare
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Ollfardh wrote:
I kinda agree with both sides here. If it was a normal race, he should just give it to Kuss. But it's the Vuelta, you don't just give away a GT. Then again, if he does give it to Kuss, Kuss will be a great help for him the next 10 years and it's not impossible Vingegaard becomes the record holder in TDF wins.
But Vingegaard, it's kinda hard to like him for me. He takes but he does not give back, which we saw in le Tour this year when he didn't want to lead out WVA in that stage Lafay won. Let's see what he does today and on saturday.
There is no difference that somehow differentiates the Vuelta from any other race. Vingegaard could have acted with respect to his friend. Yes, it would cost him...but that is true friendship. If you only do good things for your friends because it costs you nothing...you are NOT a friend. |
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| Supernutz |
Posted on 14-09-2023 14:47
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Stagiare
Posts: 156
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Thor Hushovd wrote:
Personally I think Vingegaard is ok with Kuss winning, but he really doesn't want Roglic to win. I wish he had stayed with Kuss yesterday, but I get that he has a champion's mentality and all the drama online is way overblown imo. But maybe I'm biased.
I actually think it's the other way around. Vingegaard is the one that wants to win at all costs. Roglic did not seem happy to tow Vingegaard away from Kuss... especially since Kuss was in no danger of cracking and had basically already killed the rest of the field and wasn't going to lose time.
Jumbo leadership are probably forcing Roglic and Kus here to ensure Vingegaard wins....which only makes sense as Vingegaard is the rider you absolutely HAVE to keep. I doubt one of either Roglic or Kus' will stay for the next years...and Jumbo will probably be picking which they want to woo here on the road. |
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| Supernutz |
Posted on 14-09-2023 14:50
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Stagiare
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alexkr00 wrote:
I guess we'll see today. There's really no reason for either of them to attack today. The stage win goes to the breakaway and the GC podium is secured. There's no reason to attack Kuss if they are happy to let him to win.
I can't blame Vingegaard or Roglic for wanting to win another Grand Tour. I guess it would be really admirable of them to let Kuss have it, but at the same time can't blame them for not gifting a Grand Tour. Maybe gift is a strong word because Kuss deserves to be there at the top, but it's clear he's the third best rider. If they were on three separate teams, both Vingegaard and Roglic would be ahead of Kuss in the GC at this point in my opinion.
Based on the last few days, we are going to see Vingegaard attack today on the last climb and take the jersey.
I can't blame Vingegaard for wanting to win another tour. He has, after all, the winner mentality. But he is missing out on the chance to be a truly legendary rider.
Win this Vuelta and he is yet another in a long line of a-hole champion GC riders. Help Kus' to win with class and style...and he becomes a legendary champion.
My bet though is that he will settle for an empty cup in Madrid...which is a huge lost opportunity. |
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