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ICL21 - General | Scouting
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| Ripley |
Posted on 22-08-2022 17:20
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3341
Joined: 25-11-2014
PCM$: 300.00
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Here is the Euskaltel jersey:
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| df_Trek |
Posted on 22-08-2022 17:23
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2324
Joined: 07-07-2016
PCM$: 17374.00
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it was at the beginning...then LLS sent me one, but it's undersized. it can appear pixelated
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| Luis Leon Sanchez |
Posted on 22-08-2022 17:43
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Team Leader
Posts: 5533
Joined: 12-06-2013
PCM$: 500.00
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If the one Ripley posted is all good then I’m definitely happy to use that one!
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| Shonak |
Posted on 23-08-2022 07:01
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Thanks Ripley, much appreciated
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 06-10-2022 19:01
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11676
Joined: 27-07-2015
PCM$: 1861.50
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Is the ICL archive still available and is it updated?
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| Shonak |
Posted on 06-10-2022 20:46
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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The excel file is not updated, but yes the webstats are being updated once a season ends. Hopefully bikex will find the time at some point to further refine it but I think the continuous running of ICL has priority. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 21:15
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| IP: None |
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 07-10-2022 17:59
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11676
Joined: 27-07-2015
PCM$: 1861.50
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Shonak wrote:
The excel file is not updated, but yes the webstats are being updated once a season ends. Hopefully bikex will find the time at some point to further refine it but I think the continuous running of ICL has priority.
Till end of last season is fine. Can't find the link to the site though.
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| Ripley |
Posted on 07-10-2022 19:28
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3341
Joined: 25-11-2014
PCM$: 300.00
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There's a link near the top of the Information&Links sticky.
Or just click here:
https://icl-stats...endar/2020
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| Shonak |
Posted on 07-10-2022 20:33
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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someone knows good stage / classic packs aside form the pcm daily expansion pack for PCM15? I'd like to have a bit more variety in creating the calendar in the future, especially when it comes to the classics  |
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 07-10-2022 20:37
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4669
Joined: 29-09-2018
PCM$: 185.00
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Btw, there are some updates of the Webapp in the pipeline; hopefully Bikex will find the time to include them soon
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 08-10-2022 06:42
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11676
Joined: 27-07-2015
PCM$: 1861.50
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Thanks Ripley
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| Shonak |
Posted on 22-10-2022 09:49
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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hello, we are consideirng to switch to a newer pcm version, in particular pcm 18, 21 or 22. Would some people have experience with those versions, e.g. from the mangame or preferably playing them?
Obv PCM15 has major weaknesses in terms of daily form, odd stage AI now and then, and TT randomness, as well as sometimes messy sprints. If there is a version that fixes most of these issues without introducing new ones, that would be great - ideally it'd also have a large calendar of races (maybe we'll think in a 2nd step about eliminating some races and adding new ones, as after 8 seasons now a bit of change might be welcome..)
I have PCM18 but getting 21 or 22 is not an issue.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| dominox |
Posted on 22-10-2022 10:09
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1452
Joined: 23-07-2014
PCM$: 5533.75
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I have nothing against moving to new version except that I do have PCM 17, 19 and 20. No 18 edition tho. |
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 22-10-2022 13:14
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4669
Joined: 29-09-2018
PCM$: 185.00
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I've been playing PCM18 quite a lot lately, and only have PCM20 for MG reporting.
PCM18's AI isn't too shabby I'd say. The big difference though is that pure puncheurs mostly aren't doing great anymore, with hybrids much more the way to go. There's no more Mo/Hi ratio that can be set per stage; instead, iirc it's based on a rider's effort whether Mo or Hi stat comes into play. In MG, quite a lot of stages were adapted to more or less suit that new scheme, and while it works pretty well for hilly classics, puncheurs struggle to do well in stage races compared to stronger climbers.
Cobbles AI in PCM18 is nice as well for classics, but pretty much useless in stage races, with low-cob riders mostly easily holding on and having a good shot at winning a GC in stage races containin only a couple of cobbled stages.
I think that while TTs still have some randomness, it doesn't happen that low-70 TTers regularly beat the specialists, so I prefer the newer versions for that.
What might be a big plus for PCM22 is that apparently you can manually limit daily form, so instead of having it go from -5 to +5, you can e.g. restrict it from -2 to +2, or even turn it off altogether. However, testing is only about to really start for MG with PCM22; probably Ulrich Ulriksen or cunego59 could provide much more in-depth analysis.
One drawback of PCM22 (in addition to the modified Mo/Hi ratio that's still there) could be that the energy system was heavily changed, and the impacts of that aren't very clear yet.
In all versions, sprints look pretty messy to me. Double-wins aren't really a thing anymore. What's an issue however is that some sprinters can be ignored by the AI throughout an entire race (I've heard that it's often the 4th best sprinter that misses out altogether); however, I don't know if that already was a thing in PCM15, or if they broke that later on.
Personally, I don't care that much about the version used for ICL, as long as we get the info early enough to adapt the roster/development in consequence.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 22-10-2022 14:05
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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As someone with two sprinter leaders, pretty much none of the benefits of later versions (mostly improved cobbles and high mountains only imo) can overshadow how broken and random the sprints can be in PCM 18+. Even if results even out over the year like they usually do in MG, I just don't want to deal with that if I can avoid it. So I selfishly vote we stick with PCM 15.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 22-10-2022 14:12
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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I would add classics AI as a point of concern for PCM15. We should probably move to PCM22.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 22-10-2022 14:33
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Thanks for the input so far, especially Fabianski. I think the ICL development allows to make good adjustments and also hilly riders have always been somewhat decent climbers too thanks to a holistic training rather than the rather inflexible man game approach.
It's true that cobble races could be better, too, especially in terms of attacking and making moves stick.
The daily form limit would be a great feature indeed and could be at least thought of for time trials.
Not sure if the sprint issues would be so intense as they are in the man game, as even in races like ZLM the top tier of sprinters is still clearly above the rest and I feel like the ICL DB is much better managed when it comes to sprinters, many times in ICL the fav sprinters battle it out. Another solution could be to further increase the sprint limit to create a new top tier eventually.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 22-10-2022 16:31
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 3263
Joined: 02-11-2010
PCM$: 300.00
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Planning on doing some testing on PCM 22 soon for Mangame. Could probably port the ICL db as well but a little harder since I don't do any reporting.
To me the two biggest issues with the newer versions are that sprints are broken in stage races (I am pretty sure the 4th best sprinter doesn't sprint) and cobbled stage races are messy because the AI doesn't recognize cobbles as a GC skill (I think this is intentional because Cyanide doesn't want GC riders getting killed in TDFs with cobbled stages).
Agree with Shonak that the greater differentiation between sprinters in ICL will help and also that the one-dimensional puncheurs are less of a thing so MO/HI won't be as big a deal(and I think 20 likes them a little more if they have decent SP and ACC)
Stages should not be an issues since every version since 16 uses the same stages and there are way more to choose from. Also easy to update if we have the zcts.
My opinion: 18 is slightly less broken in sprints but still bad and I think the best IT engine. But breakaways win too many stages. 20 definitely better on that and great cobbled classic AI but worse on sprints and IT (still better than 15).
Man Game: McCormick Pro Cycling |
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| Ripley |
Posted on 22-10-2022 17:10
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3341
Joined: 25-11-2014
PCM$: 300.00
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What might be a big plus for PCM22 is that apparently you can manually limit daily form, so instead of having it go from -5 to +5, you can e.g. restrict it from -2 to +2, or even turn it off altogether.
This sounds great, it's high up on my personal wishlist. I'd be all for reducing it it +-2 (or even getting rid of it). That alone would make me want to switch to PCM 22 even if the rest stayed the same.
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| Bikex |
Posted on 01-08-2023 21:59
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Team Leader
Posts: 7257
Joined: 25-08-2012
PCM$: 600.00
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Thank you Shonak and dominox for keeping the racing going and everyone still sticking around!
Scouting
This will be a bit different this time, to make the process quick and easy.
I will publish a list with regens at some point with each a team assigned to them that will have a right to sign them at their minimum wage. The higher the scouting budget of a team, the more talents will be assigned to it, and thus the higher the chance to find a high potential talent.
Each team has 100 regional focus points to distribute. Generally, they'll be distributed according to the nationalities chosen in the signup thread. If you want to choose your own distribution of the regional focus points, send me a message in the same format as the following example:
| ScoutingRegionId | Focus | | 155 | 50 | | 18 | 50 |
Find the scouting regions in this sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...li=1#gid=0 (Feel free to add new ones)
The chosen focus values influence the amount of talents found in each region. That doesn't mean that the example above will lead to exactly 50% of riders from both of the selected regions. Also few riders can be found outside of the selected regions.
Scouting budget by team:
Spoiler | 1 | Vegeta Cycling Team | CT | 105 | | 6 | Filliers - Mora Pro Cycling Team | WT | 120 | | 7 | Liberty Seguros | WT | 100 | | 12 | Allianz - BMW Cycling Team | WT | 130 | | 13 | Euskaltel - Elior | CT | 125 | | 15 | Qatar Airways - Trentino - Qumak | WT | 105 | | 17 | Proximus Cycling Team | CT | 250 | | 23 | Italo | WT | 100 | | 25 | BNZ Cycling Team | CT | 100 | | 40 | Pedal Africa for Qhubeka | CT | 100 | | 41 | Grupo Argos - Quala | WT | 105 | | 42 | Alitalia | WT | 100 | | 43 | Baku Synergy + | WT | 100 | | 44 | Renault Classic | WT | 180 | | 46 | ICBC Cycling Team | CT | 175 | | 50 | CCC Sprandi Polkowice | WT | 100 | | 52 | Santos - Euskadi | CT | 100 | | 58 | Équipe Cycliste Peugeot | CT | 100 | | 61 | VisitUkraine p/b Nemiroff | CT | 105 | | 63 | Deutsche Bahn | WT | 100 | | 68 | Credit Suisse | WT | 120 | | 70 | Polestar ProCycling p/b Telenor | WT | 110 | | 75 | Bosch Cycling Team | WT | 100 | | 81 | Shell Pro Cycling | CT | 100 | | 82 | Team BP | WT | 140 | | 85 | Air Algérie - Navibulgar | WT | 230 | | 86 | Brugse Zot - Trek | WT | 370 | | 87 | Millenium - LATAM Airlines | CT | 300 | | 88 | Latvijas Balzams - Olainfarm | CT | 100 | | 89 | Tierra del Fuego | CT | 100 | | 90 | Magnum - Madshus | CT | 360 | | 91 | Guinness Cycling p/b BlackBerry | CT | 140 | | 93 | Trans Looney Tunes | WT | 210 | | 94 | EF x Palace - Nippo | CT | 180 | | 95 | Cadejo - Bike Xpress | CT | 240 | | 96 | La Vie Claire | CT | 100 | | 97 | Ziggo | CT | 100 | | 98 | DFK Panevėžys | CT | 140 |
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