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Vuelta al Pais Vasco - Discussion
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 16-12-2021 08:48
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Moscon finally waking up, that was about time! Great ride by him!
On the other hand, I can see absolutely no reason at all how Hoelgaard could be stronger (and by so much), so it's still disappointing to see him drop to 8th. Guess it's all about daily form - but even then I can't really see it happen... any ideas? Well, at least this means we won't leave completely empty-handed - and maybe he's in for a repeat tomorrow?
Rest of the team (bar Lienhard, in theory) was obviously too weak for this stage, as expected. And Lienhard actually doesn't even deserve any more comments at this points. Just a completely s**t rider - and I've got no clue why.
Congrats to Tryg on that great performance, although it leaves me with a really bitter feeling tbh. And big congrats also to Lierse and Laengen!!! What a show by the latter, pretty incredible... Guess I'll book the same hotel as Aker for my team next time 
And thanks to Nemo for a captivating report until the final meters!
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| redordead |
Posted on 16-12-2021 08:51
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I can't say I'm happy with the result or how this race is going to turn out scoring wise. But when I look at the depth of quality in the entire race, I also can't argue I should be doing better than I am. At this point I'd probably take what we have, so hopefully we don't drop any more in the final stage.
Congrats on the epic stage win, lief 
"I am a cyclist, I may not be the best, but that is what I strive to be. I may never get there, but I will never quit trying." - Tadej Pogačar
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 16-12-2021 09:03
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Fabianski wrote:
On the other hand, I can see absolutely no reason at all how Hoelgaard could be stronger (and by so much), so it's still disappointing to see him drop to 8th. Guess it's all about daily form - but even then I can't really see it happen... any ideas?
Daily form could for sure be strong enough to close the gap between them or even make Hoelgaard a bit better I think. Especially since climbing seemed very important here and Hoelgaard is a slightly better pure climber even without daily form. Then the +2 in Hi and +4 in Res/Sta could be made up (or at least close to) by a +3 or even +2 difference in daily form, which would also give Hoelgaard considerably better acceleration on the day. Not impossible given that the KoM jersey might give Hoelgaard a better chance at a good daily form (I'm not sure if it does in PCM20).
But it could also just be how the stage plays out. Maybe Moscon had to spend more energy on the attacks for mountain points due to positioning (or the aforementioned worse acceleration), maybe he was one of the later attackers and his yellow bar never fully recovered from the chase, something like that. Happy though that Moscon was solid, giving you at least a small achievement in these trying times
For us, certainly a good performance by Hadi, but not super great by Rosskopf. I was hopefull when I saw him in the group of 31, but didn't quite have it today. Then again, considering the riders around him, not a terrible performance either. I really hope we go into the breakaway tomorrow with at least one, maybe two riders. Guys like Eyob, Vendrame and Uwi are practically made for that now given their GC ranks and our team GC ranks in general.
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 16-12-2021 09:16
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Thanks for the explanations, cunego. Didn't realize daily form could have that big of an impact, actually...
And to be honest, I clearly underestimated the Mo impact in this race (and this stage in particular). In hindsight, Masnada would probably have been a much better fit. I was actually pretty shocked to see the pure puncheurs so far behind on this day. But I guess that the stage (or at least the final 30km or so) was really, really hard, as requested by Lierse 
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 21:58
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| Marcovdw |
Posted on 16-12-2021 09:27
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Breathe...
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 16-12-2021 10:08
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Epic win! Also Ollfahrd won't question the fit between Novak and Oomen anymore I guess, which you love to see 
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 16-12-2021 10:09
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Fabianski wrote:
Thanks for the explanations, cunego. Didn't realize daily form could have that big of an impact, actually...
Here's what the difference between a +2 and a -2 daily form (taken from a random non-ManGame Giro save). This is at 100% fitness, as are all ManGame reports, which is why the -2 barely has any negative changes (in career mode, if you're at poor fitness, the changes are basically reverse with negative form much worse and positive form hardly changing anything).
"Physical" stats are most heavily impacted, as you can see. The pics have been taken at a time trial, which is why that stat is slightly more affected. On a road stage, that emphasis is slightly shifted, though not as big. But you can imagine what +5 form would look like ...
This is the same impact as it has been in PCM18 btw, no changes there.
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| Eden95 |
Posted on 16-12-2021 10:27
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Not much to say really. Eddie should have done better here - 17th is terrible considering the hybrid-friendly profile. u25 is nice to lead now but need big improvement tomorrow.
Thanks for the report.
Indosat - ANZ HQ
"This Schleck sandwich is going to cause serious indigestion for Evans" - Phil Liggett |
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| ember |
Posted on 16-12-2021 12:19
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Wow! Sensational stuff from Stake!!! 
Super happy with that performance, and with such gaps, it puts us in a brilliant position for at least a podium overall. Maybe even the win can be possible, though, Oomen looked strong on the finish there, and it could be difficult to defend from him on the final day.
What a rider Stake is proving to be for us. If he can finish this off, he can basically stop riding this year, and it will still be a sensational season
Congratulations on the win, and the huge team performance, Ollfardh!
Also thank you for the report, Nemolito. An obvious nailbiter for me, what a thriller that was. |
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 16-12-2021 14:31
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This race is gone as well. We don't even join breaks. Don't understand that really.
Thanks for the reports Nemo. Congrats to lief
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 16-12-2021 14:52
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Well, I definitely did not expect Eg and his 71 hill to end up as our #1 guy here, but alas, he's done it! And not because all of our guys have failed that hard. Sure, I'd like to be a little higher, but it's a strong startlist and we're not especially tailored to the route.
Having Niklas as our main guy in the mix is very rewarding. He's had a strong start to the year this year, often better than last year in CT, although maybe it's just that Warbasse is not a favorite so he has some free reign. Speaking of Warbasse, I'm still slightly disappointed in his performance here. I'd take it if he had TT'd to his potential, but he didn't, so he's probably not where he should be. That being said, 19th is still a scoring position and is fine. If both he and Eg can stay in the teens, we'll leave here in an alright spot. Roe was never expected to survive a stage like this, so that is what it is.
I'll excuse Aranburu at this point because he should be and likely is working for the stage racers now, but he's definitely been a disappointed this year on hybrid stages. A stage like this should normally be perfect for him. I figured his weakness would be acceleration, but with his resistance at 79, it's strange to see him just straight up cracking so early. It's happened in almost all his race days this year, which is not a great sign.
Side note: Those were some very narrow roads in the finale, no? Didn't seem from the report that they had any real impact on the race, but I always get a little nervous seeing them cause they're not supposed to be there and in PCM can really ruin someone's race. Hope that's just a one off.
Anyway, congrats to Tyrg and Lierse on big days!
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| fintas |
Posted on 16-12-2021 16:25
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Paulinho continues to disappoint in this race, I know that due to the TT´s it would not be expected that he would make a big place in the GC, but in stages like this he should be able to do more and better, finishing at almost 7min is too much.
In a clearly opposite direction, João Rodrigues with an excellent stage manages to jump to a place on the podium in the GC. As the last stage has an ending very similar to this stage, I'm hoping he can try to defend this place or at least not lose too much time.
I also don't have any more words for the season that José Fernandes is doing, after a second place in Jelajah SKL he seems to be ready to reach another place in the top 10 of the GC in this race.
Congrats Tryg - Ritter Sport and thanks for the report
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 17-12-2021 09:30
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Apologies for the messed up podium pictures. Pressed a wrong button and was unable to undo my mistake while being under the time pressure of having to make a screenshot of every podium By the last picture I had given up and decided to throw some yellow in the mix, which was quite fitting for Lierse.
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 17-12-2021 09:40
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[deleted, don't want to bother you with my rant again]
Btw, the roads again looked (too) narrow there.
Edited by Fabianski on 17-12-2021 10:23
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| Marcovdw |
Posted on 17-12-2021 09:44
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We had Hagen, Haga and Poljanski, but none of them were able to challenge for the GC. I think this game was programmed by Minions-haters!!!!!!!!!!
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Thanks for the reports Nemolito! Congratulations Ollfardh!
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| quadsas |
Posted on 17-12-2021 09:44
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Moral of the story - be a cry baby and you'll be rewarded.
On the other hand, Keizer managed to ensure it's a successful race for us. Around 200 points is definitely good enough, he's going on a long break now, so those extra 25 points are appreciated
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 17-12-2021 09:56
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Terrible stage by Rosskopf and Hadi, although the latter at least just barely remained in the Top 35, which is the important cutoff. Great stuff by Eyob though, jumping to 26th overall and scoring the third place here. If I've calculated correctly, we should be close to 50 points, which isn't great but still acceptable.
The narrow roads probably helped lead to the big time gaps, which isn't great, but as long as it's just one race, I guess it's not too bad. Congrats to Ollfardh, massive double win here. And congrats to Abhi for the stage. And thanks to Nemo for the nice reports
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| redordead |
Posted on 17-12-2021 10:20
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Okay, let me just take a couple minutes to process this...
We sent 3 riders in the breakaway?!  Given I'm in my 4th MG season and have never gotten close to winning a KOM jersey, I've been conditioned to think we don't do breakaways, especially on the appropriate stages with the appropriate riders. Well we did it here and it paid off. It feels a bit deja vu in the sense we had a subpar race here last year then flipped the script on the final day. Kinda similar today, but I never expected it since the tougher stage was yesterday where we did average and I mentioned our breakaway history.
Pogacar 8th in a pretty stacked HC stage?!
He was in the breakaway sure, but in the end it was a mix of favourites from the peloton also, so it's a really good result. I also never expected to beat Dunbar in the U25 classification
So Pogi comes away from the race as our top scorer Gaudu was mentioned to be dropped at some point, but looks like he recovered to finish well and with some U25 pts thrown in it's a decent race for him Gilanipoor was pretty bad yesterday, but managed to get in the top 50 today which is nice. Vysna was also better today, just a shame he was terrible the other days.
All in all I'm happy with what we achieved given how strong the competition was. We need some solid scoring from these types of races to have a chance of surviving. Nice to see Pogacar has a chance to be a decent scorer already
There's been lots of talk of bad AI, but it worked fantastic for Lierse with Oomen and Novak. Congrats Ollfardh
Thanks for all the nice reports Nemo
"I am a cyclist, I may not be the best, but that is what I strive to be. I may never get there, but I will never quit trying." - Tadej Pogačar
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 17-12-2021 10:31
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That's probably our best race ever, double GC and team classification. This and Bonifazio sprinting now (and overachieving) could bring us from close to relegation to close to promotion. Thanks for the congratulations everyone! Saying goodbye to Gaviria was hard, but training Oomen and getting Novak was the right call.
Thank you for the reports Nemo! Feel free to do this more often
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 17-12-2021 13:59
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Well that's something! Teuns has his first moment for us and it's some important one. Saved our race tbh. Great work by Kelderman but he's supposed to be the leader At least he turned out to be useful. Like red said, we usually don't do breaks but we threw the kitchen sink at this one and it turned out great.
Congrats to Lierse on the massive victory and thanks to Nemo for more wonderful reporting!
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