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Tour of Uppsala Discussion
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| cio93 |
Posted on 30-01-2020 08:43
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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cunego59 wrote:
cio93 wrote:
Maybe we need to reconsider which TT routes to put into MG races. This one might have been too mountainous.
[...]
So I don't think you need to banish any supposedly flat time trial with even the slightest hill, but it's important to look at the spacing of them.
Thank you, it's been a while since I played PCM18/19 enough to remember immediately how easy it is to win these kinds of TTs against the AI, you definitely located the problem correctly. With AI pacing still not improving throughout the years, there's really no other way to tackle this issue to at least minimize the random effect.
valverde321 wrote:
cio93 wrote:
I looked up Onodera and Quintero in the DB.
I shouldn't have.
Maybe we need to reconsider which TT routes to put into MG races. This one might have been too mountainous.
To be fair, daily form was probably the much bigger factor here. (Another issue I found with PCM18...)
It increases stats by +8 sometimes, and its not random anymore.
The two obvious questions to that (valid) point I can't answer as a simple user of the game compared to some people experienced with editing and fundamentally understanding it here are
1) How much - if any - different were the daily form effects back when they weren't displayed to the player?
2) Does the AI receive the same daily form modifiers as the player does?
Additionally, we don't have favorite races or weather, we don't have fitness peaks, and we have OVLs way higher in our DB than in the usual game DBs.
So even if there's no difference, the GC modifier should be the only applicable one in the MG, and for anyone not aware, that's dependent on the expected GC position based on OVL compared to the actual GC position: a 70OVL rider leading a GT gets +2 or +3, a 79OVL rider leading it might not get any modifier.
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 30-01-2020 15:31
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World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
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cio93 wrote:
cunego59 wrote:
cio93 wrote:
Maybe we need to reconsider which TT routes to put into MG races. This one might have been too mountainous.
[...]
So I don't think you need to banish any supposedly flat time trial with even the slightest hill, but it's important to look at the spacing of them.
Thank you, it's been a while since I played PCM18/19 enough to remember immediately how easy it is to win these kinds of TTs against the AI, you definitely located the problem correctly. With AI pacing still not improving throughout the years, there's really no other way to tackle this issue to at least minimize the random effect.
valverde321 wrote:
cio93 wrote:
I looked up Onodera and Quintero in the DB.
I shouldn't have.
Maybe we need to reconsider which TT routes to put into MG races. This one might have been too mountainous.
To be fair, daily form was probably the much bigger factor here. (Another issue I found with PCM18...)
It increases stats by +8 sometimes, and its not random anymore.
The two obvious questions to that (valid) point I can't answer as a simple user of the game compared to some people experienced with editing and fundamentally understanding it here are
1) How much - if any - different were the daily form effects back when they weren't displayed to the player?
2) Does the AI receive the same daily form modifiers as the player does?
Additionally, we don't have favorite races or weather, we don't have fitness peaks, and we have OVLs way higher in our DB than in the usual game DBs.
So even if there's no difference, the GC modifier should be the only applicable one in the MG, and for anyone not aware, that's dependent on the expected GC position based on OVL compared to the actual GC position: a 70OVL rider leading a GT gets +2 or +3, a 79OVL rider leading it might not get any modifier.
I believe AI gets the same bonus, but not sure on that.
Someone told me that the bonuses are the same as in past games, but I dont believe its true. I'd have to do testing on older games, but in past games to win a Grand Tour a rider needed to be within 3 or 4 MO of the top riders imo, now a rider like Rohann Dennis came near the podium in my Quickstep career.
The other point though,as you mentioned is there isn't favourite race/weather effect bonuses, nor fitness peaks. This in theory means that the max any rider can ever get in the MG is a +3 or -3 I believe. This would lower any possible bonuses. I think the OVL is a very good point, that may need more looking into.
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 31-01-2020 02:13
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 3263
Joined: 02-11-2010
PCM$: 300.00
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Also if the MG has more evenly matched riders the impact of daily form will be vital.
I also think FL is very important in PCM18 in any stage with a lot of fl even if classified HI or MT and definitely in the sprints. Holloway has now won 5 stages in about 10 C1 sprints with a pretty mediocre lead out. Some luck in that (the corner on S2) but he is unusual in MG sprinters in the PCT and CT in having strong FL and RS.
Technical stuff aside - darn it another very fine sprint from Mr Holloway, his lead out actually getting in his way but he times his sprint well and beasts past the rest of the sprint field. The time gap taking him to 5th on GC another huge piece of fortune. Plus the green. Just keep riding the wave my friend.
Man Game: McCormick Pro Cycling |
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| viking90 |
Posted on 31-01-2020 05:16
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4032
Joined: 24-01-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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I got lucky that Ludvigsson had such a good race with 2nd GC 3rd PTS Jersey because Ahlstrand sucked here, 2nd in one stage was ok but then 8th and 10th on those other sprinterstages... With the best leadout I did expect much more from him... In Sweden as well... 
Thanks for Great reporting and congrats to stage wins and GC! |
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 31-01-2020 05:16
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11676
Joined: 27-07-2015
PCM$: 1861.50
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4th place is great from Wippert. Getting stuck on the wrong side of the split is horrible from Ligthart.
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| redordead |
Posted on 31-01-2020 06:26
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4881
Joined: 18-10-2017
PCM$: 200.00
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26th, 28th and 26th are Ciolek's sprint results in this race. Before that he was never outside the top 10.
What on earth happened?! 
Thank you for the reports cunego59 and congrats to all the winners 
"I am a cyclist, I may not be the best, but that is what I strive to be. I may never get there, but I will never quit trying." - Tadej Pogačar
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| Sykkel_Freak |
Posted on 31-01-2020 10:06
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2073
Joined: 11-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Selig's best race so far this season. Not far off doing something really special here, just lacking that little bit of speed on the final meters.
GC didn't go as we wanted meanwhile. Really disappointed by Ignatiev's performances in the TT's.
Thanks for the reports!
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 11:49
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| DaveTwoBob |
Posted on 31-01-2020 15:52
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2433
Joined: 07-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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DaveTwoBob wrote:
Disappointing for Cav (and Ahlstrand), plenty of time to get organised with 4 in Kraftwerk's leadout but he still gets dropped off too early.
Is recruiting and sending a decent leadout worth it?
Congrats to maxime86 for the win and cunego for another great report.
Ditto - disappointing race for Kraftwerk
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| fintas |
Posted on 31-01-2020 15:59
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2602
Joined: 21-03-2008
PCM$: 1200.00
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This third place serves as a small consolation for a race that, although it was not below expectations, ended up not running very well.
Congrats to all the winners and thanks for the reports
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| ryant |
Posted on 31-01-2020 16:51
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2322
Joined: 15-08-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I hate this game 
Not good enough in the end, 4th and 6th GC is terrible and Enger just about did enough on his end, though he just narrowly lost out on his first win
 John St Ledger in Team Bunzl-Centrica and Team U25Red Bull Driver in RFactor
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 31-01-2020 17:06
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World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
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Not once have I ever seen timegaps awarded on a flat stage in PCM18. This is really unfortunate for me, but from a neutral perspective its quite awesome to see.
Still 4 in the Top 11 so a decent points haul for us still.
Thanks for the reports.
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