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Tour de France 2018 | Stage 12
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| ooomega |
Posted on 20-07-2018 09:50
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Yes, they are definitely on EPO and all the other good stuff. Thomas's time up Alpe d Huez 41.20, Pantani 36.40. 4 minutes and 40 seconds difference. Without considering 20+ years of improvement in training methods, efficiency on the bike and technology in terms of bike and kit etc.
Salbutamol is a hell of a drug. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 20-07-2018 09:50
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Classics Specialist
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roturn wrote:
As long as it`s like the following quote of the article
Sky’s riders were accompanied by booing and jeering all the way up the Alpe d'Huez climb, with Thomas booed as he crossed the finish line and again as he was awarded the yellow jersey at the podium presentation.
I think it`s something that can`t be avoided and neither has to be punished in my opinion. Sky must live with this and there are reasons why it happens to Sky more than with others, which are partly self-inflicted by Sky.
But I doubt the punches were all way up and neither the spatting even though later I can imagine at least more than punching as the distance is different and it`s easier to make it hidden.
Booing is fine. People have a right to express their opinion. They can say whatever they like, within reason. But it simply cannot be allowed to escalate into actual physical contact with the riders, be that in the form of spitting or hitting. It is unfair on all riders, not just those being targeted, as they will all suffer, like Nibali who was knocked off by fans yesterday.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| roturn |
Posted on 20-07-2018 09:53
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ringo182 wrote:
roturn wrote:
As long as it`s like the following quote of the article
Sky’s riders were accompanied by booing and jeering all the way up the Alpe d'Huez climb, with Thomas booed as he crossed the finish line and again as he was awarded the yellow jersey at the podium presentation.
I think it`s something that can`t be avoided and neither has to be punished in my opinion. Sky must live with this and there are reasons why it happens to Sky more than with others, which are partly self-inflicted by Sky.
But I doubt the punches were all way up and neither the spatting even though later I can imagine at least more than punching as the distance is different and it`s easier to make it hidden.
Booing is fine. People have a right to express their opinion. They can say whatever they like, within reason. But it simply cannot be allowed to escalate into actual physical contact with the riders, be that in the form of spitting or hitting. It is unfair on all riders, not just those being targeted, as they will all suffer, like Nibali who was knocked off by fans yesterday.
Jep totally agree.
Thing is if the article is saying "all the way up" I would expect the booeing is included in Thomas/Sky`s expression. Though they have to live with this.
Spitting and punching was more likely by individuals while the masses did simply boo all the way up. |
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 20-07-2018 09:55
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7702
Joined: 24-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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ooomega wrote:
Yes, they are definitely on EPO and all the other good stuff. Thomas's time up Alpe d Huez 41.20, Pantani 36.40. 4 minutes and 40 seconds difference. Without considering 20+ years of improvement in training methods, efficiency on the bike and technology in terms of bike and kit etc.
Salbutamol is a hell of a drug.
Pantani did it on a stage where Alpe D'Huez was the only climb.
Yesterday it was Madeleine ridden pretty fast because the breakaway hasn't established yet by then and also Croix de Fer ridden pretty fast because of Kruijswijk.
And then favourites lost over a minute by playing mindgames allowing Nibbles with a broken vertebrae back and Landa multiple times.
Check your facts before commenting again dumbass |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-07-2018 10:04
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Kirchen_75 wrote:
ooomega wrote:
Yes, they are definitely on EPO and all the other good stuff. Thomas's time up Alpe d Huez 41.20, Pantani 36.40. 4 minutes and 40 seconds difference. Without considering 20+ years of improvement in training methods, efficiency on the bike and technology in terms of bike and kit etc.
Salbutamol is a hell of a drug.
Pantani did it on a stage where Alpe D'Huez was the only climb.
Yesterday it was Madeleine ridden pretty fast because the breakaway hasn't established yet by then and also Croix de Fer ridden pretty fast because of Kruijswijk.
And then favourites lost over a minute by playing mindgames allowing Nibbles with a broken vertebrae back and Landa multiple times.
Check your facts before commenting again dumbass
Also this was third mountain stage in the row with multiple climbs...
And i am not saying that they are on EPO, just that it reminds me of these days, when you could compete in both Giro-Tour.
But even then, winning four GTs in the row was not possible, that only Merckx did and only idiot could compare this ubermensch Merckx with random bloke from Kenya who was mediocre some 8 years ago or with TT/cobble specialist who suddenly wins multiple mountain stages.
@Ringo: you are not worth the discussion as any other skyboy fan, but grab yourself a dictionary and find the word: exaggeration and think about how people can use it on the internet.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 20-07-2018 10:19
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Kirchen_75 wrote:
ooomega wrote:
Yes, they are definitely on EPO and all the other good stuff. Thomas's time up Alpe d Huez 41.20, Pantani 36.40. 4 minutes and 40 seconds difference. Without considering 20+ years of improvement in training methods, efficiency on the bike and technology in terms of bike and kit etc.
Salbutamol is a hell of a drug.
Pantani did it on a stage where Alpe D'Huez was the only climb.
Yesterday it was Madeleine ridden pretty fast because the breakaway hasn't established yet by then and also Croix de Fer ridden pretty fast because of Kruijswijk.
And then favourites lost over a minute by playing mindgames allowing Nibbles with a broken vertebrae back and Landa multiple times.
Check your facts before commenting again dumbass
Also this was third mountain stage in the row with multiple climbs...
And i am not saying that they are on EPO, just that it reminds me of these days, when you could compete in both Giro-Tour.
But even then, winning four GTs in the row was not possible, that only Merckx did and only idiot could compare this ubermensch Merckx with random bloke from Kenya who was mediocre some 8 years ago or with TT/cobble specialist who suddenly wins multiple mountain stages.
@Ringo: you are not worth the discussion as any other skyboy fan, but grab yourself a dictionary and find the word: exaggeration and think about how people can use it on the internet.
I'm not worth the discussion because you can't possibly defend what you have said about your support of the abuse of professional cyclists.
What have i exaggerated? I'm referring to newspaper reports, which I have provided, of numerous instances of hitting and spitting up the final climb. I'm also not exaggerating your disgusting support of the abuse of professional cyclists.
People can also hide behind funny pictures of Peter Sagan on the internet to make themselves feel big and say things they would never dream of saying in real life.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Kalach |
Posted on 20-07-2018 10:32
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 880
Joined: 04-08-2012
PCM$: 300.00
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There is that f*cking guy who took down Nibali...See photo
Kalach attached the following image:
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
_____________________________________________
PCM Velogames Championship - Top Results
* 1st Tour de Suisse ('23)
* 1st Tour de Romandie ('19, '18)
* 1st Tour de Pologne ('20, '19)
* 2nd Tour of California ('19)
* 2nd Tour de Suisse ('18)
* 3rd Tour de France ('23, '21)
* 3rd Giro d’Italia ('22)
* 3rd Vuelta Espana ('23)
* 3rd Autumn Classics ('19, '18)
* 9th Spring Classics ('18)
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 20-07-2018 11:10
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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ringo182 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Kirchen_75 wrote:
ooomega wrote:
Yes, they are definitely on EPO and all the other good stuff. Thomas's time up Alpe d Huez 41.20, Pantani 36.40. 4 minutes and 40 seconds difference. Without considering 20+ years of improvement in training methods, efficiency on the bike and technology in terms of bike and kit etc.
Salbutamol is a hell of a drug.
Pantani did it on a stage where Alpe D'Huez was the only climb.
Yesterday it was Madeleine ridden pretty fast because the breakaway hasn't established yet by then and also Croix de Fer ridden pretty fast because of Kruijswijk.
And then favourites lost over a minute by playing mindgames allowing Nibbles with a broken vertebrae back and Landa multiple times.
Check your facts before commenting again dumbass
Also this was third mountain stage in the row with multiple climbs...
And i am not saying that they are on EPO, just that it reminds me of these days, when you could compete in both Giro-Tour.
But even then, winning four GTs in the row was not possible, that only Merckx did and only idiot could compare this ubermensch Merckx with random bloke from Kenya who was mediocre some 8 years ago or with TT/cobble specialist who suddenly wins multiple mountain stages.
@Ringo: you are not worth the discussion as any other skyboy fan, but grab yourself a dictionary and find the word: exaggeration and think about how people can use it on the internet.
I'm not worth the discussion because you can't possibly defend what you have said about your support of the abuse of professional cyclists.
What have i exaggerated? I'm referring to newspaper reports, which I have provided, of numerous instances of hitting and spitting up the final climb. I'm also not exaggerating your disgusting support of the abuse of professional cyclists.
People can also hide behind funny pictures of Peter Sagan on the internet to make themselves feel big and say things they would never dream of saying in real life.
I was not speaking about your exaggeration, but mine, dont take everything so seriously on the internet, i am not a violent person. 
Btw i am not hiding behind anything, as i have several pictures of myself here on the forum alone or with my son, if you wish i can PM you my adress and name, so you can send me the postcard, or a police to arrest me because i have attacked sincere athletes online. 
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 20-07-2018 11:29
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Let's just draw a line under everything. You obviously don't like Sky, which is fine. I don't particularly support Sky. As I've said for years now I simply disagree with the constant unfounded accusations levelled against them. (As well as the fact that everyone looses their minds everytime they win something  ) People can talk about evidence all they like but the fact is no Sky rider has ever been banned, which is more than can be said for the majority of teams/riders who are openly supported.
I don't believe you actually mean what you say, but even so, it is in slightly bad taste to support the abuse of a team (even jokingly) which has lead to one innocent rider suffering a broken back already. As a cycling fan you can voice your opinion, but don't encourage/trivialise abuse.
Happy for you to send me your address. I'll send you a Chris Froome Postcard
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| df_Trek |
Posted on 20-07-2018 11:32
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2324
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The problem is that Sky is the only team with caught riders not banned, that's also a fact
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 20-07-2018 11:43
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
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Remember in last year's tour on the Mont du Chat, when Froome had a puncture and Aru attacked? Froome told him off.
Remember today when Nibali crashed and Froome just went for it straight away?
Not even worth mentioning the fact that Froome has been caught for doping now and I have my doubts about G (although there's no clear evidece) Damn, I am so tired of Sky. 
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 20-07-2018 11:43
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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df_Trek wrote:
The problem is that Sky is the only team with caught riders not banned, that's also a fact
Lets not start this again. Take that up with UCI/WADA. They make the rules.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 20-07-2018 11:44
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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trekbmc wrote:
Remember in last year's tour on the Mont du Chat, when Froome had a puncture and Aru attacked? Froome told him off.
Remember today when Nibali crashed and Froome just went for it straight away?
Not even worth mentioning the fact that Froome has been caught for doping now and I have my doubts about G (although there's no clear evidece) Damn, I am so tired of Sky.
Not a fact. Cleared.
Also, Froome didn't attack Nibali. He lost 10 seconds to Froome on the line with a broken back. They all sat up. Admittedly that was because they were watching each other, but they didn't attack when Nibali went down. They just carried on riding.
Edited by ringo182 on 20-07-2018 11:49
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 20-07-2018 11:48
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
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ringo182 wrote:
trekbmc wrote:
Remember in last year's tour on the Mont du Chat, when Froome had a puncture and Aru attacked? Froome told him off.
Remember today when Nibali crashed and Froome just went for it straight away?
Not even worth mentioning the fact that Froome has been caught for doping now and I have my doubts about G (although there's no clear evidece) Damn, I am so tired of Sky.
Not a fact. Cleared.
Was Ullisi guilty? How about Petacchi? How about all the other riders banned for having Salbutamol levels lower than Froome?
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 20-07-2018 11:50
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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trekbmc wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
trekbmc wrote:
Remember in last year's tour on the Mont du Chat, when Froome had a puncture and Aru attacked? Froome told him off.
Remember today when Nibali crashed and Froome just went for it straight away?
Not even worth mentioning the fact that Froome has been caught for doping now and I have my doubts about G (although there's no clear evidece) Damn, I am so tired of Sky.
Not a fact. Cleared.
Was Ullisi guilty? How about Petacchi? How about all the other riders banned for having Salbutamol levels lower than Froome?
How's that Froome/Sky's fault?
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Kalach |
Posted on 20-07-2018 11:54
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 880
Joined: 04-08-2012
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ringo182 wrote:
trekbmc wrote:
Remember in last year's tour on the Mont du Chat, when Froome had a puncture and Aru attacked? Froome told him off.
Remember today when Nibali crashed and Froome just went for it straight away?
Not even worth mentioning the fact that Froome has been caught for doping now and I have my doubts about G (although there's no clear evidece) Damn, I am so tired of Sky.
Not a fact. Cleared.
Also, Froome didn't attack Nibali. He lost 10 seconds to Froome on the line with a broken back. They all sat up. Admittedly that was because they were watching each other, but they didn't attack when Nibali went down. They just carried on riding.
Its not only about suspicions from doping. Well thats the main reason why people do not like them but you are ringo more or less right that there is no evidence yet. But yeah then there are cases like Wiggins`s jiffy bag etc.
There is however second reason (away from doping) why people do not like them. And thats the money thing and their budget. Okey, probably again they are not the one to blame (it should be leading organisations because there could be a salary cap etc) but its frustrating to see such a dominance. If other teams could also afford more expensive riders it could be more equal 
We are just tired of seeing this kind of dominance with only a weak and unequal SKY`s competitors.
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
_____________________________________________
PCM Velogames Championship - Top Results
* 1st Tour de Suisse ('23)
* 1st Tour de Romandie ('19, '18)
* 1st Tour de Pologne ('20, '19)
* 2nd Tour of California ('19)
* 2nd Tour de Suisse ('18)
* 3rd Tour de France ('23, '21)
* 3rd Giro d’Italia ('22)
* 3rd Vuelta Espana ('23)
* 3rd Autumn Classics ('19, '18)
* 9th Spring Classics ('18)
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 20-07-2018 11:57
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
PCM$: 700.00
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ringo182 wrote:
trekbmc wrote:
Remember in last year's tour on the Mont du Chat, when Froome had a puncture and Aru attacked? Froome told him off.
Remember today when Nibali crashed and Froome just went for it straight away?
Not even worth mentioning the fact that Froome has been caught for doping now and I have my doubts about G (although there's no clear evidece) Damn, I am so tired of Sky.
Not a fact. Cleared.
Also, Froome didn't attack Nibali. He lost 10 seconds to Froome on the line with a broken back. They all sat up. Admittedly that was because they were watching each other, but they didn't attack when Nibali went down. They just carried on riding.
Froome closed that gap to Bardet straight after Nibali attacked, closing a 10 second gap to and then dropping one of the best climbers in the world is certainly an attack.
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 20-07-2018 11:59
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
PCM$: 700.00
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ringo182 wrote:
trekbmc wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
trekbmc wrote:
Remember in last year's tour on the Mont du Chat, when Froome had a puncture and Aru attacked? Froome told him off.
Remember today when Nibali crashed and Froome just went for it straight away?
Not even worth mentioning the fact that Froome has been caught for doping now and I have my doubts about G (although there's no clear evidece) Damn, I am so tired of Sky.
Not a fact. Cleared.
Was Ullisi guilty? How about Petacchi? How about all the other riders banned for having Salbutamol levels lower than Froome?
How's that Froome/Sky's fault?
Either they are all innocent or their all guilty, they've all committed the same offense, just Froome committed it to an even more severe level!
Not to mention there is a lot of other dodgy stuff going on, Froome's random spike in performance, his often conflicting multitude of reasonings for everything that goes on, jiffy bag, total lack of the transparency they claim to have, Leinders...
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 20-07-2018 12:03
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Kalach wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
trekbmc wrote:
Remember in last year's tour on the Mont du Chat, when Froome had a puncture and Aru attacked? Froome told him off.
Remember today when Nibali crashed and Froome just went for it straight away?
Not even worth mentioning the fact that Froome has been caught for doping now and I have my doubts about G (although there's no clear evidece) Damn, I am so tired of Sky.
Not a fact. Cleared.
Also, Froome didn't attack Nibali. He lost 10 seconds to Froome on the line with a broken back. They all sat up. Admittedly that was because they were watching each other, but they didn't attack when Nibali went down. They just carried on riding.
Its not only about suspicions from doping. Well thats the main reason why people do not like them but you are ringo more or less right that there is no evidence yet. But yeah then there are cases like Wiggins`s jiffy bag etc.
There is however second reason (away from doping) why people do not like them. And thats the money thing and their budget. Okey, probably again they are not the one to blame (it should be leading organisations because there could be a salary cap etc) but its frustrating to see such a dominance. If other teams could also afford more expensive riders it could be more equal
We are just tired of seeing this kind of dominance with only a weak and unequal SKY`s competitors.
I totally understand and accept that. The biggest and richest teams in any sport are often disliked. It's normal.
The problem with the majority of criticism levelled at Sky is the constant "FACT FACT FACT Sky are Doping, Froome is a doper. Thomas is in yellow but he rides for Sky so he's obviously doping".
Stop stating untrue facts about Sky doping. The reason people don't like them is because they are successful. There is no evidence of any wrongdoing so stop stating it as fact that they are doping. It isn't a fact.
I have no problem with people disliking Sky for actual reasons. The reason you dislike them may be because you suspect them of doping, again perfectly fine. But stating gossip and rumour and suspicion as fact. It isn't fact.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 20-07-2018 12:06
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
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I'll admit, I don't like Sky because of their way of racing and the success that comes from that, but there is so much evidence of their doping - or at the very least Froome's - that it just makes everything so much worse.
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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