Croatia14 wrote:
trek not only had his trustworthy mason-role, he also pushed hard towards lynching knockout. Which bikex by the way didn't do, so don't take too much glory out of dropping his name.
I didn't want to take glory for that, I just hoped that reasonable townies are able to draw the right conclusions from that. You are the main reason, I didn't put more effort into pursuing knockout, as every time I checked in here there was a new post by you accusing me of something, which took most of my attention. Now again, what's the point of involving my name in this statement?
I also find it weird that you are now aggresively are trying to put yourself in a position of a 100% trustworthy townie. I still don't see that as a fact. But admittedly I'm a little bit biased with our history in this thread. So if the majority trusts then I try to do that as well.
I have anyways given your posts too much attention so far, making me not a very valuable player for the town in the last days, as I also should've tried to keep more focus on the other players.
Like said before, I also think the gunsmith should come out if he is still alive. I misinterpreted his role. I thought knockout having a gun would mean the gunsmith is still alive, but of course it is not unlikely he is dead by now. If he is not, he probably should come out, especially if he is one of the current main suspects. He probably has already spread some guns and has still at least another night to give trek a gun. I doubt someone from the mafia will claim to be the gunsmith, as this is probably a too high risk for them atm, when it is still going quite well for them.
I now have the feeling for some time the confused cop is either dead or figured out quickly he is not the detective, as there weren't really posts that looked like someone had hints.
trekbmc wrote:
At the moment I'd suggest that our strategy going ahead is that everybody votes between Ian, TMM, WSF and Bikex.
I think we should definitely take TMM from the list of who to vote for today. It is much smarter to go after the ones not cleared by jseadog. TMM is possibly the Godfather, but the others are more likely to be mafia like you calculated. Among the guys in your list with 34% there is at least one mafia guy, likely even 2. We should focus on hitting one among them first. The godfather then must be dealt with towards the end of the game. If TMM then is still alive, he would become an option for lynch again. That leaves Ian, Wsf and me from those 4 you mentioned plus sammyt and bbl.
@sammyt: I don't have a particular question for you atm, I'll just wait for your post you announced and then see if it clears all doubts I have over you. But also like I said my feeling about you was most of the game that you are pro-town. After the post I might be reminded why that was the case. I also think that your argument with knockout clearly speaks for you.
Before the day ends I'll also take a look at bbl again and why I was so sure in the beginning he is pro-town. I haven't really focused much on him since then, but I guess he is probably trustable.
@Croatia (again)
If you are talking about my constantly modified thoughts that I constantly shared transparently with all here - you have to admit that they haven't been too inaccurate so far.
Well the ones I had focus on the most, were very inaccurate.
Maybe it's just that you don't realize that because you have been one of the first on the list for several days now.
Possibly, but the main reason for that statement by me was that you now think again that TMM and me are the 2 mafia guys left. It is very unlikely that you have hit 2 with your first 2 guesses.
It would have been an insanely idiotic move by the mafia to kill any of us two, if we are both townies.
I disagree. It would've been an easy way to spread the discussion, and would've almost certainly knocked another town member out in the day role from my guesses.
I doubt it would have.
sammy and bbl seemed kind of trustworthy to me so far, but at least sammy has also risen some doubts in my books lately.
can you explain that on sammy please? I recognized your opinion on sammy switched a lot - so may you explain how that occured, especially in combination with the conversation of sammy and knockout over the last days?
I tried to explain that already here: https://pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread....st_1265259
I still think it is weird, that sammy wanted to lynch jseadog over you, as it became already apparent that jseadog is possibly the detective. But raziz did the same thing and turned out to be a townie. So apparently it was very much possible to miss jseadogs hints until then.
All of that leaves Ian and wsf for the lynch for me at the moment (plus potentially sammyt or bbl, but unlikely). I know I have voted for wsf so far, but to be honest also his posts make kind of sense, so it's very difficult to guess his role. I might still gonna need some other posts from others to see who I think is more likely a part of the mafia. I also would like to know who wsf is tending to give his lynch vote..
trekbmc wrote:
If somebody claims to be gunsmith but isn't then the real gunsmith should counterclaim immedietly because catching a mafia will be a huge success and worth losing the gunsmith's anonymity and we can confirm by having one send to me and the other to you and the doctor toss a coin on who to save out of you and me.
I very much agree
@bbl: I wouldn't supspect bikex just for the sake that we argue a lot and I am good, that is just part of the game - he might be town, though I for now believe different due to other reasons than having a "fight" with him
Ian seems very non-committal, he airs suspicions but is tentative to make a move, it seems like the sort of play somebody would make to be regular but stay under the radar.
This is thinking in a circle.
You make moves easily -> you could be mafia because you want to lynch people easily.
You are careful -> you could be mafia because you don't lynch people easily.
You are rather quiet -> must be mafia because you're going under the radar
You talk a lot -> must be mafia because hiding in plain sight and influencing us.
There are different styles of playing. And I'm playing the game best I know how, my style. I can see why you think I'm suspicious, and for good reasons. I also didn't feel like being picked off by the mafia because of being a loud-mouth. But I disagree with BBL's analysis of me, where he states:
Ian seems to be a bit suspicious with he play thus far, but also as a first time player many of his confusing actions make sense.
I ask of you: what confusing actions?
I may not be overly active in the discussions, but where have I made confusing actions? On the contrary, I think my actions have all been very deliberate and though-out off. A little too less action, in fact.
But going this far in the game, everyone is bound to be suspicious, and I accept that. This is also no longer the time to quietly wait. However, I'm not 100% sure who to vote for. I'll keep my lynch vote for now until the discussion opens up a bit more.
@jandal: I hope this day will be a bit longer. Hoping for a deadline for at least another 24hours.
Now again, what's the point of involving my name in this statement?
in your post before I think you mentioned that you were the first to drop his name, and I only wanted to clear up that you were indeed the first to do that, but then didn't play a major role in his lynch process. I am sorry if that was too offensive.
Well the ones I had focus on the most, were very inaccurate.
Please concretizise that besides my accusation on you being mafia, which you'd obviously deny from a subjective point of view (as everybody else would of course).
Possibly, but the main reason for that statement by me was that you now think again that TMM and me are the 2 mafia guys left. It is very unlikely that you have hit 2 with your first 2 guesses.
I said that this is my current thought direction. That in no way says that you two have to be the ones. Again, sorry if that was unclear.
I doubt it would have.
You don't need to answer the following, it's just a matter of personal interest: How do you come to that conclusion? I feel that it would've been the straightforward way of a normal town that values logic of over counterlogic. Not necessary to answer for the current discussion, but I just wonder how you'd judge that situation.
https://pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread....st_1265259
I still think it is weird, that sammy wanted to lynch jseadog over you, as it became already apparent that jseadog is possibly the detective. But raziz did the same thing and turned out to be a townie. So apparently it was very much possible to miss jseadogs hints until then.
I kind of agree on that part. To add to that though jseadog wasn't out of full doubts until then though, as he also dropped some (in my eyes) contradictory stuff (I think you pointed the ryant discussion out right?). But do you think sammy could've made this whole complementary ideas with knockout up?
I also would like to know who wsf is tending to give his lynch vote.
I'd like that too. We have a lot of silence going on currently...
Spoiler
Celebrate bikex, a full post without accusations on you
additionally, and that may be a strange feeling only: I get the vibes that bbl may have repeated a little bit too much of what trekbmc and I said before...doesn't make him my #1 or #2 lynch target right now so far though
Ians post makes kind of sense - still Ian, there must be a way of standing out, otherwise everybody (without confirmation) would be suspicious in the same manner. To be honest, I'd also like you to comment a bit more/in detail on the current flaws.
I also didn't feel like being picked off by the mafia because of being a loud-mouth.
Remember that you win with the town even if you are dead, if all of the mafia are taken down. It's always better to tell what you think so that if you die at some point, you die having said what you think and contributed as much as possible.
@all: something I thought of and I already need to say in advance: if we lynch the wrong person today and in the night another person is killed, we should absolutely not tell if (and who) a gun was received. Remember there is still a terrorist in the game that could bomb the person out straightaway.
Croatia14 wrote:
additionally, and that may be a strange feeling only: I get the vibes that bbl may have repeated a little bit too much of what trekbmc and I said before...doesn't make him my #1 or #2 lynch target right now so far though
I'm not really mentally all there right now to analyze everything in depth, and I saw good ideas in what I read. Should I not agree with a good point that two other confirmed townies make? In that vain you could say that everyone who's ever agreed with someone on a lynch vote, correct or not, is mafia because their ideas weren't unique. I think that's kind of silly thinking personally but think what you will.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
Croatia14 wrote:
additionally, and that may be a strange feeling only: I get the vibes that bbl may have repeated a little bit too much of what trekbmc and I said before...doesn't make him my #1 or #2 lynch target right now so far though
I'm not really mentally all there right now to analyze everything in depth, and I saw good ideas in what I read. Should I not agree with a good point that two other confirmed townies make? In that vain you could say that everyone who's ever agreed with someone on a lynch vote, correct or not, is mafia because their ideas weren't unique. I think that's kind of silly thinking personally but think what you will.
I said it is only a strange feeling. I do not critizise your for your opinion, I just marked it myself for the later that it may have been a possible bandwagon move - could turn out (and so far I believe into that) very different though
@Croatia: I'll give you those, but I can't do it tonight. Family problems have come up and I can't be online again today.
I'll get my next post (on current affairs) out there tomorrow after work (should be between 5-6 pm GMT+1), along with my lynch vote!
Ian seems very non-committal, he airs suspicions but is tentative to make a move, it seems like the sort of play somebody would make to be regular but stay under the radar.
This is thinking in a circle.
You make moves easily -> you could be mafia because you want to lynch people easily.
You are careful -> you could be mafia because you don't lynch people easily.
You are rather quiet -> must be mafia because you're going under the radar
You talk a lot -> must be mafia because hiding in plain sight and influencing us.
There are different styles of playing. And I'm playing the game best I know how, my style. I can see why you think I'm suspicious, and for good reasons. I also didn't feel like being picked off by the mafia because of being a loud-mouth.
Of course everything is just guessing and suspicions, so yeah, that's my thought process.
Although notably, the mafia was picking off the most quiet players (a list which includes you and wsf) who are still alive.
@Bikex:
I think we should definitely take TMM from the list of who to vote for today. It is much smarter to go after the ones not cleared by jseadog. TMM is possibly the Godfather, but the others are more likely to be mafia like you calculated. Among the guys in your list with 34% there is at least one mafia guy, likely even 2. We should focus on hitting one among them first. The godfather then must be dealt with towards the end of the game. If TMM then is still alive, he would become an option for lynch again. That leaves Ian, Wsf and me from those 4 you mentioned plus sammyt and bbl.
Getting the Godfather first is actually beneficial because it means the Terrorist can't kill anybody but yes, I agree that TMM should not be the first guy we kill.
I also find it weird that you [Croatia] are now aggresively are trying to put yourself in a position of a 100% trustworthy townie. I still don't see that as a fact. But admittedly I'm a little bit biased with our history in this thread. So if the majority trusts then I try to do that as well.
I'm paranoid of everybody but I know that since we can only choose three players to kill, max. 4, I have to choose to trust at least 3 players and with his 14% plus overall kinda feeling genuine (as well as being quite keen to point out Knockout) I have to say I will trust Croatia, the same can go for Sammy and BBL (although I worry that will be our downfall).
---
Also agree with Ian that today is a pivotal day in the game so it'd be great to have a long amount of time to discuss especially as voting hasn't really started yet.
Ian Butler wrote:
@Croatia: I'll give you those, but I can't do it tonight. Family problems have come up and I can't be online again today.
I'll get my next post (on current affairs) out there tomorrow after work (should be between 5-6 pm GMT+1), along with my lynch vote!
Thank you very much Ian! Family always goes over daily, great that you probably make it back in time Good luck!
Spoiler
off topic/off game: family affairs in a mafia game...I wonder which producer would've created that movie
I'll set you all a binding deadline of 24 hours Gunsmiths can't give themselves weapons.
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant." [ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] Xero Racing
in your post before I think you mentioned that you were the first to drop his name, and I only wanted to clear up that you were indeed the first to do that, but then didn't play a major role in his lynch process. I am sorry if that was too offensive.
I doubt anyone thought I played a major role there. I also only mentioned that after you did.
Please concretizise that besides my accusation on you being mafia, which you'd obviously deny from a subjective point of view (as everybody else would of course).
Mostly it was your accusations. Regarding me they were just wrong and I tried long enough to point that out. Also some other stuff, but I think I have covered that already at the time mostly.
I said that this is my current thought direction. That in no way says that you two have to be the ones. Again, sorry if that was unclear.
I know that this doesn't mean that and I also know for a fact that it isn't the case.
You don't need to answer the following, it's just a matter of personal interest: How do you come to that conclusion? I feel that it would've been the straightforward way of a normal town that values logic of over counterlogic. Not necessary to answer for the current discussion, but I just wonder how you'd judge that situation.
Why are you asking this question, if you don't want me to answer. If the mafia had killed one of us, I think for most it would've been a way to obvious try by the mafia to frame the other.
I kind of agree on that part. To add to that though jseadog wasn't out of full doubts until then though, as he also dropped some (in my eyes) contradictory stuff (I think you pointed the ryant discussion out right?). But do you think sammy could've made this whole complementary ideas with knockout up?
Honestly I have not focused much on the discussion between knockout and sammyt, as I usually had enough already after responding to your messages.
I'm gonna take a look at it, but I don't think it is impossible that was made up. But I rather believe that knockout hoped he could take out a townie that way, after he apparently did very well for the town in the last game. Maybe he believed he still had a little trust from there.
@trekbmc:
Getting the Godfather first is actually beneficial because it means the Terrorist can't kill anybody but yes, I agree that TMM should not be the first guy we kill.
Of course it is but TMM doesn't have a higher chance of being the Godfather then anyone not declared safe by jseadog, so voting for him at the moment would be negligent.
I'm paranoid of everybody but I know that since we can only choose three players to kill, max. 4, I have to choose to trust at least 3 players and with his 14% plus overall kinda feeling genuine (as well as being quite keen to point out Knockout) I have to say I will trust Croatia, the same can go for Sammy and BBL (although I worry that will be our downfall).
I agree that Croatia cannot be in any case the player lynched in this round. At the moment you shouldn't focus on players to trust but on the players you trust the least (of the 34% ones). If a mafia guy gets taken out now, the entire situation will change. I think putting up a trust list at the moment is counter productive. You can't know yet how the few kills we have should be used, as the mafia is also still there and will kill.
I realize I might be lynched on this day. I can only ask everyone(including Croatia) that considers voting me, to go through my posts first and think twice about it. I believe there are many things that speak for me trying to help the town, which my intentions were all the time. I also think I wouldn't be as much in the center of focus at the moment without Croatias in my eyes pointless campaign against me.
Why are you asking this question, if you don't want me to answer.
Only thing I feel the need to comment on, as I may have been too unclear. I wanted you to answer, I only thought that that is a non-game influencing answer, that's why I said "no need". Thank you for answering it briefly anyway.
Honestly I think bikex shouldn't be first lynched on the list. Today should be either WSF or Ian imo and I agree that we should take in day by day (but on the other hand, I want to get all my thoughts out in case I die).
I have no fears over Ian, he hasn't done anything to make me suspect him any more than anybody else has and Ian has made some good points I have agreed with.
WSF on the other hand hasn't really contributed much when he has posted and seems to have just regurgitated the general consensus without trying to add anything new to it.
Bikex wrote:
@sammyt: I don't have a particular question for you atm, I'll just wait for your post you announced and then see if it clears all doubts I have over you. But also like I said my feeling about you was most of the game that you are pro-town. After the post I might be reminded why that was the case. I also think that your argument with knockout clearly speaks for you.
Well here goes, I hope you don't mind me linking to previous posts rather than quoting great swathes of text as I don't really want to create a post that is too long and pretty much all quotes with just a little bit of explanation in between.
Bikex wrote:
I tried to explain that already here: https://pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread....st_1265259
I still think it is weird, that sammy wanted to lynch jseadog over you, as it became already apparent that jseadog is possibly the detective. But raziz did the same thing and turned out to be a townie. So apparently it was very much possible to miss jseadogs hints until then.
As I explained to Jseadog here I believed him to be the CC not the detective, I read that one wrong but I was and still am 100% sure on Croatia being town, as far as I'm concerned Croatia is as guaranteed to be town as Trek is.
In addition to what I previously wrote when Jseadog asked me about it I would like to point out that I hadn't actually been paying as much attention to him, I think the fact that I was the focus of knockout for the whole game and that I agreed with Jseadog to lynch knockout, and voted to do so before he shot jseadog should help to prove that it wasn't a vote to get rid of Jseadog but to save Croatia, which I had previously stated and stick by.
In case I am wrong with my count as a tied vote doesn't help and it is more to save Croatia who I believe it would be a mistake to lynch than due to thinking jseadog is definitely mafia, even if I do think jseadog is sounding suspicious.
That is my actual lynch vote on Jseadog and as you can see at the time I was adamant that Croatia was pro town and stated that I was casting my vote to save him, not to eliminate Jseadog.
I just want to remind you of that to prove that is genuinely what I was thinking at the time of voting and how long I have been fully trysting of Croatia as pro town for.
It seems like a lot has happened since then but it proves that I have been unwavering in confidence of Croatia being a townie for a long time.
jseadog1 wrote:
With two votes for me though I have to even the odds or risk being killed so I have to switch.Lynch Croatia14 didn't want to do it but I have to
Don't forget that Jseadog himself was confident in Croatia and I take this as a sign that he had already investigated Croatia and got a town reading at this point. I didn't realise that at the time but re-reading through knowing that Jseadog was likely the detective, something you had already worked out, gives me the conclusion that Croatia had already been investigated, so my belief that Croatia is 100% town was deemed right by Jseadog as well, he just didn't like that it came at his expense, which if I had of realised he was detective I would have looked at the other people to receive votes at that point and try and find an alternative we could lynch that Jseadog would switch to and everyone else might get behind to save both.
And I've not mentionend it before hand but re reading to create this post I have just realised that this post which is the last post I made before I voted to lynch Jseadog is the only time I had cause to think about him all game, and it wasn't even directed towards Jseadog but a reply to TMM.
the only other post where I mentioned Jseadog before voting to lynch him was when I analysed everyone left in the game based on who I thought the doctor saved.
That fully covers why my vote for Jseadog shouldn't be viewed as suspicious and shouldn't make me any less trustable as a pro town player than what you thought beforehand.
We have nearly a full day tomorrow and it is my day off work so I am free to post all day and can answer any other questions then.
I haven't gone over my interactions with knockout as you have said they already point to me being pro town but if you (or anyone else) want me to then I am happy to do another long post like this one on why that makes me 100% a trustable pro town player.
I won't do it in this post as I am sure it is already long enough and enough for you to read and digest for the time being, plus it is getting rather late (quarter to midnight my time) and I am getting tired so would rather wait until the morning at least seeing as we have until tomorrow night my time before doing so if it is deemed necessary.
I have no fears over Ian, he hasn't done anything to make me suspect him any more than anybody else has and Ian has made some good points I have agreed with.
WSF on the other hand hasn't really contributed much when he has posted and seems to have just regurgitated the general consensus without trying to add anything new to it.
I probably should have posted that long post before this one to make sure that my actual lynch vote for this round is recorded correctly,
but just to clarify I still lynch wierdskyfan64 for the reasons I stated about 2 hours ago.
Also a note on TMM's inactivity for the last day or two and for another day: he's been away and has let me know about it in advance. Just rereading and thought I best mention it
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant." [ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] Xero Racing
No need to state further details Sammy. You should be very trustworthy, and I think we know enough of you now. This post at last opened my eyes even wider, making sure that I will trust you.
Horrible timing with TMM, but that's life I guess. Shouldn't influence our judgement on him.
Btw: knockout is not allowed to communicate with the mafia anymore once he is dead right?
Good luck!
