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PCM.daily Stats Discussion
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 11-09-2017 18:18
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I'm surprised that Porte at 82 is actually being questioned clearly the best climber of 2017 until his crash at the Tour. As for Froome greatness we all know that despite doing the double he's not as explosive as he used to be but has become more intelligent and calculationg and knows exactly how to use his team to the max, a sign of a champ looking to stay at the top for as long as possible.
Without a doubt the Tour showed the quality gap to him had narrowed and his 83 of the last two years or so is clearly better now as an 82. We also know that the podium for both the Tour and Vuelta should actually read like so:
Tour
1 Sky
2 Froome
3 Uran
Vuelta
1 Sky
2 Froome
3 Nibali
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 11-09-2017 18:22
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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Zakarin should have a high REC. He was one of the strongest in both Giro and Vuelta in the final week.
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan'
Gracias Alberto.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 11-09-2017 18:27
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Forever the Best wrote:
Zakarin should have a high REC. He was one of the strongest in both Giro and Vuelta in the final week.
Good spot and have given him two points more.
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 11-09-2017 21:40
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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Also Enric Mas should have an upgrade if you didn't do an upgrade after Burgos. He was 3rd on Picon Blanco and 2nd on Lagunas de Neila with decent results in California and Pais Vasco as well.
Denifl as well. He was 2nd on Kitzbüheler Horn as he won Österreich Rundfahrt. (though Lopez was caught in echelons in a flat stage from what I remember, Lopez then went for long-range on the Alpendorf stage on Grossglockner but failed so Denifl wasn't the strongest climber)
He then won at Los Machuchos at La Vuelta from breakaway by having the 7th or 8th fastest climb of the day or so. (on the climb he was faster than De La Cruz, Kruiswijk, Froome, Poels etc.)
Edited by Forever the Best on 11-09-2017 21:49
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan'
Gracias Alberto.
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 11-09-2017 21:49
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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aldrofj wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Porte - Romandie ? And Quintana ? Yes good...
Froome - Tour and Vuelta...
How can a man, that has never ended on the podium in a GT, have the same, as a man, there every year wins TDF...
Quintana, Porte andFr
By beating this guy a few times this year, and not being beaten by him.
So Fulgsang 83 mountain? By beating Porte a few times this year, and not being beaten by him. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 26-11-2024 16:48
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Bot Agent
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 11-09-2017 22:06
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Forever the Best wrote:
Also Enric Mas should have an upgrade if you didn't do an upgrade after Burgos. He was 3rd on Picon Blanco and 2nd on Lagunas de Neila with decent results in California and Pais Vasco as well.
Denifl as well. He was 2nd on Kitzbüheler Horn as he won Österreich Rundfahrt. (though Lopez was caught in echelons in a flat stage from what I remember, Lopez then went for long-range on the Alpendorf stage on Grossglockner but failed so Denifl wasn't the strongest climber)
He then won at Los Machuchos at La Vuelta from breakaway by having the 7th or 8th fastest climb of the day or so. (on the climb he was faster than De La Cruz, Kruiswijk, Froome, Poels etc.)
Denifl for sure has been updated but would still be hard for him to win the Vuelta stage that he did with the same company that he had. But his updates have been focused around even higher climbing and res and having Austria and Vuelta in fav races. So with all this and on a +5 day he could win the stage.
Mas has had some steady increases over the last few weeks as well and Burgos is in his fav races as well.
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 11-09-2017 22:07
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3803
Joined: 27-06-2014
PCM$: 400.00
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Thanks for the answers.
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan'
Gracias Alberto.
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| Redsskull |
Posted on 11-09-2017 22:37
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Amateur
Posts: 14
Joined: 01-04-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Seems like my post about Woods went unnoticed. There's no way he can get 7th in la Vuelta with his current stats. |
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| Time2Play |
Posted on 11-09-2017 22:39
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Amateur
Posts: 9
Joined: 01-06-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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@Tafiolmo & @ aldrofj
Thanks for the insight on Contador & Porte.
I'm still quite new in the stats debate, so I'll have to learn from the discussions in this thread and will try to also put the secondary stats into consideration in the future.
@Redsskull
Tafiolmo wrote:
Woods: His final stats are being discussed but I think he will be 77 mtn 78 hill the classic example of a rider that hangs in there for three weeks in a GT like Meintjes at Tour and Hirt at Giro. These riders need good rec to do so and Woods has some very good rec now. In the future he could possibly next season go to 78/79 as I think he's a better hill climber than mtn but who knows how he will progress, if of course he does progress. |
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| oreclub |
Posted on 12-09-2017 07:12
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Junior Rider
Posts: 41
Joined: 03-02-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Is there any stat that make posible to bribe rivals? Contador should have a 85. |
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| Aquarius97 |
Posted on 12-09-2017 08:09
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4191
Joined: 13-09-2015
PCM$: 300.00
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Fighter is the stat that makes IA riders attack more
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| Jorge14 |
Posted on 12-09-2017 08:22
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Stagiare
Posts: 184
Joined: 15-03-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Richard Carapaz upgraded too or not? Maybe 75 mountain and hill? I think Moscon needs the 74 mountain too, does 13th in the Angliru. |
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| aldrofj |
Posted on 12-09-2017 08:56
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Free Agent
Posts: 139
Joined: 14-07-2017
PCM$: 300.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
aldrofj wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Porte - Romandie ? And Quintana ? Yes good...
Froome - Tour and Vuelta...
How can a man, that has never ended on the podium in a GT, have the same, as a man, there every year wins TDF...
Quintana, Porte andFr
By beating this guy a few times this year, and not being beaten by him.
So Fulgsang 83 mountain? By beating Porte a few times this year, and not being beaten by him.
There is a difference between performing on the small tours since a few years and performing on the Dauphiné more than excepted. 79 MO with a good form, the Dauphiné as a fav race, etc., are enough for Fuglsang. You must also take the secondary notes into account.
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 13-09-2017 05:05
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Porte: Paris-nice and Romandie.
Fuglsang: OL Silver and Dauphine.
Porte is probably the most overrated rider in the world, man is only good in small stage race, when the big stars are out of shape. |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 13-09-2017 05:17
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
I'm surprised that Porte at 82 is actually being questioned clearly the best climber of 2017 until his crash at the Tour. Not in the tour before he crash... |
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| Raziz |
Posted on 13-09-2017 07:08
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Domestique
Posts: 552
Joined: 22-12-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
I'm surprised that Porte at 82 is actually being questioned clearly the best climber of 2017 until his crash at the Tour. Not in the tour before he crash...
What?
Porte won TDU (unnecessary), the mountain stage in Paris-Nice, won Romandie (beating the 2nd time on the main climb by 30+ seconds), an extremely strong Dauphine before the poor tactics and team strength on the last stage, but was certainly the best climber that race. In the tour, was looking strong before he crashed by mainly sticking to Froome's wheel not losing any time on him until he crashed.... |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 13-09-2017 07:36
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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He was not the best climb in the Tour before he crashed.
GTs are where you can assess the riders. Paris-Nice, Romandie, Dauphine etc, are just training and preparation. For example, is Nibali almost never in shape and Froome was not in shape in this year, when he was supposed to maintain shape and freshness from the Tour to the Vuelta.
What is best, win Tour and Vuelta or second place in Dauphine? 
Edited by Arberg27 on 13-09-2017 07:59
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| Raziz |
Posted on 13-09-2017 08:56
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Domestique
Posts: 552
Joined: 22-12-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
He was not the best climb in the Tour before he crashed.
GTs are where you can assess the riders. Paris-Nice, Romandie, Dauphine etc, are just training and preparation. For example, is Nibali almost never in shape and Froome was not in shape in this year, when he was supposed to maintain shape and freshness from the Tour to the Vuelta.
What is best, win Tour and Vuelta or second place in Dauphine?
He wasn't able to prove himself this year, because of the crash. Last year however, he was 5th in the Tour certainly being at least the 2nd best climber and theoretically this year he is only better. Also, the one GT he aims for every year, he usually is unlucky so it is harder to judge, but obviously he is amazing at all the stage races and you can base a far bit off that for sure. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 13-09-2017 09:15
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I'd like to point out that, when factoring in backup stats and domestiques strength, Froome is still the best stage racer in the database. Does he deserve that? Yes. Has he done anything to deserve 83 MO this year or the past one? No, no one has been consistent enough to.
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| marcoplv95 |
Posted on 13-09-2017 10:58
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Stagiare
Posts: 210
Joined: 18-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I agree that 82 is completely clueless, considering his TT.
Noway he's a better GT rider than Nibali, it's a retard thing, imo.
You said he's the best based on his GC wins.
Yes, but you can win STDU and Romandie with 81, and that's the only reason he deserves 81 instead of 80, but not 82.
As always, it's just my opinion, and this DB is amazing. |
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