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PCM.daily Stats Discussion
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| matt17br |
Posted on 06-08-2017 18:49
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These suggestions are all very insightful and appreciated, thanks a lot aldrofj!
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 06-08-2017 21:16
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indeed, for Nommela, Liepins and Welten the small changes (+1 sprint) were done - with Bayly we now went for 67, as his back-ups, updated today, will make him feel like way more with 72 Acc
Garcia Cortina is a difficult topic, as he is in no way a typical sprint but kind of a punchy sprinters hybrid, kind of Matthews-esque in my eyes...his back-up stats (Acc & other) will be much higher than for similarly fast sprinters, instead his sprinting stat will be lower than from similarly fast riders - we'll discuss on that surely...more likely I see something like 71-72 for him, suggesting that he has not impressed too much in low level sprints
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| hillis91 |
Posted on 06-08-2017 21:20
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I wanted to wait a bit before making this post, since im Norwegian, and when it comes to Hushovd and EBH we don't gain much sympathy and goodwill on PCMdaily 
Either way, here goes.
Should EBH get a small(!) boost in FL and STA?
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| aldrofj |
Posted on 07-08-2017 10:30
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Croatia14 wrote:
indeed, for Nommela, Liepins and Welten the small changes (+1 sprint) were done - with Bayly we now went for 67, as his back-ups, updated today, will make him feel like way more with 72 Acc
Garcia Cortina is a difficult topic, as he is in no way a typical sprint but kind of a punchy sprinters hybrid, kind of Matthews-esque in my eyes...his back-up stats (Acc & other) will be much higher than for similarly fast sprinters, instead his sprinting stat will be lower than from similarly fast riders - we'll discuss on that surely...more likely I see something like 71-72 for him, suggesting that he has not impressed too much in low level sprints
Initially, he is a punchy sprinter, but this year (and in the end of 2016 too), he performed more on flat stages than on hilly stages. He competed with Kristoffer Halvorsen last year during Tour de l'Avenir, and finished 6th and 9th of two stages during Olympia's Tour. This year, his major results are performances in Tour of Japan's stages (quite hilly but not so hard), Scheldeprijs and European Championships. On the other way, he didn't confirm his talent on hilly stages, only a 11th place in Schaffhausen, and he underperformed in Izu during Tour of Japan, that corresponds more to a hilly stage.
However, I overestimated him a little, the 73 SP sounds too much. In my opinion, 72 SP/69-70 HIL and maybe something like 72-73 ACC are adapted to the capacities he showed since the end of 2016. |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 07-08-2017 14:49
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Imo currently Ivan Garcia Cortina would be 71 in Hills and 71 in Sprints (and 69 in Cobbles) |
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| Maddox |
Posted on 07-08-2017 15:08
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Croatia14 wrote:
@Maddox: Finally managed to finish the checkover of your proposals, to make sure they are included in the next update. Most of them got accepted straight away, some got a little more moderated though to fix our stat matrix. 3 riders are left open for me which you rank very high, but I can't really find evidence for your higher ranking in comparison to others:
Morten Hulgaard
Alexander Salby
Sören Siggard
Rasmus Wallin
Would you like to give some further information on why they should be statted far better than riders with a similar international palmares and more free roles in the continental circuit? I trust in your judgement on them, just need some information to understand what makes them deserve those better stats (which would kind of make the point of optimizing stats for international results [and reproducing them in PCM] a little weaker, but for the right justification we'd go that way.
Cheers!
Ps: Feel free to check our changes and comment on them 
Only saw your post now, sorry.
Anyway, Morten Hulgaard is really strong - check his PCS. In Eschborn-Frankfurt U23 he would have been in the winning group if it was not due to a crash. He was also 3rd at U23 DC ITT - a really strong guy, but he has been ill since May or something.
Alexander Salby lacks endurance etc. but in junior ranks, he was almost as fast as Frederik Rodenberg - and that says a lot. Maybe not 70 in SP, but 66 sounds fair to me.
Søren Siggard has not been so strong this season, don't know why, but he won a criterium in front of Jonas Aaen a few days ago. A strong guy in all terrains, yet not great in any.
Rasmus Bøgh Wallin is crazy! Beat Casper Pedersen, but was beaten by Michael Carbel, at the U23 DC RR in May, and he won Kalmar GP two days ago. A really strong sprinter - should be maybe 1 stat lower than Casper Pedersen.
Also, I think it is unquestionable that Casper Pedersen needs a huge boost. Really glad to be Press Officer at Giant-Castelli this season.
Where can I see the changed stats? |
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| aldrofj |
Posted on 07-08-2017 15:19
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Maddox wrote:
Croatia14 wrote:
@Maddox: Finally managed to finish the checkover of your proposals, to make sure they are included in the next update. Most of them got accepted straight away, some got a little more moderated though to fix our stat matrix. 3 riders are left open for me which you rank very high, but I can't really find evidence for your higher ranking in comparison to others:
Morten Hulgaard
Alexander Salby
Sören Siggard
Rasmus Wallin
Would you like to give some further information on why they should be statted far better than riders with a similar international palmares and more free roles in the continental circuit? I trust in your judgement on them, just need some information to understand what makes them deserve those better stats (which would kind of make the point of optimizing stats for international results [and reproducing them in PCM] a little weaker, but for the right justification we'd go that way.
Cheers!
Ps: Feel free to check our changes and comment on them
Only saw your post now, sorry.
Anyway, Morten Hulgaard is really strong - check his PCS. In Eschborn-Frankfurt U23 he would have been in the winning group if it was not due to a crash. He was also 3rd at U23 DC ITT - a really strong guy, but he has been ill since May or something.
Alexander Salby lacks endurance etc. but in junior ranks, he was almost as fast as Frederik Rodenberg - and that says a lot. Maybe not 70 in SP, but 66 sounds fair to me.
Søren Siggard has not been so strong this season, don't know why, but he won a criterium in front of Jonas Aaen a few days ago. A strong guy in all terrains, yet not great in any.
Rasmus Bøgh Wallin is crazy! Beat Casper Pedersen, but was beaten by Michael Carbel, at the U23 DC RR in May, and he won Kalmar GP two days ago. A really strong sprinter - should be maybe 1 stat lower than Casper Pedersen.
Also, I think it is unquestionable that Casper Pedersen needs a huge boost. Really glad to be Press Officer at Giant-Castelli this season.
Where can I see the changed stats?
Check here : https://docs.goog...7I/pubhtml
If you encounter problems when searching a rider, try to select the spreadsheet with Ctrl + A and copy it on your own spreadsheet. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 07-08-2017 16:10
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Disregard the Danish riders names in the sheet btw, I had updated them a couple of weeks ago in our test dbs but haven't updated them in the sheet yet.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 09-08-2017 14:01
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Sprinter
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Have gone through the last several pages looking at suggestions and taken most on-board but I think it would be a good time to talk about the important stats for the top 3 French riders that have been mentioned several times over the last few pages and how we have reached our conclusions on them, I more or less made the final call for the stats today as for how they will go into the next DB release.
These stats have been done to try and keep Bardet, Pinot and Barguil as interesting as possible along with working how they will act with the game AI..The thing to bear in mind is that only one of these riders can be called consistent while the other two not really.
Bardet: Certainly a climber that is worth 81 mtn and seen as the most likely to win a GT as is the most consistent of these three riders, excellent DH and the best climbing team in Ag2r to support him, his only weak area is his TT which we have really knocked down.
Pinot: Imo even better than Bardet and certainly more exciting but suffers from inconsistency not just in race but also if things don't go his way then his head drops which is kind of impossible to recreate with the game AI, so the only way we could do that is keep him a point less than Bardet, which why he sits at 80 mtn instead of 81, a so so TT rider and his team FDJ whilst being good is not as strong Ag2r as a pure climbing team and he tends to rely on certain riders rather than the team imo to look after him, his big weak area of course is his DH
Barguil: Clearly before the Tour a 77 rider and really inconsistent and at best a stage hunter despite his big talent. His Tour was a fairytale and he can be approached two ways in stats. One a 78 rider with a big rec to hang in there like Meintjes or as I prefer a 79 mtn rider with a lower rec to make him more of a stage hunter/KOM (a useful way of playing with the rec stat) His weakness is that we are relying on this Tour to give him 79, I've seen a few members wanting to give him 80 and 81 which would be way too high because at least riders like Bardet and Pinot do have a GT track record and we have no gurantee on how Barguil will continue to perform.
All three have excellent Ftr stats as well and I made Barguil a point better today than Bardet.
Finally all are good hill riders and it's is only Bardet that gets a top stat in regards to rec. As said these will be the final stats for these riders unless the Vuelta tells us something different but I doubt after energies spent those that are riding the Vuelta will see any upward changes.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 09-08-2017 14:09
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 09-08-2017 15:06
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Thanks again Maddox! While Wallin answered potential questions himself, we adjusted also Hulgaard, Salby and Siggard according to your suggestions.
Casper Pedersen is a very different topic. I'm not really sure what type of rider he is, his results would suggest that he is a very strong flat guy with a handy sprint on his side. Or is he really more of a classical sprinter? His racing attitude reminded me more of a Boasson Hagen type of rider (without the uphill), a fast man that is not fear of going hard before the finish. Is that near to the point?
In other terms: Would you also like to rank the young danes by the potential they'd offer from your hindsight? Went pretty deep into it, but a second view won't hurt it.
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| LuckyLukas |
Posted on 09-08-2017 17:01
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I have got some input concerning the "favourite race" atribute. Imo it is given a bit to liberally. As it has a big impact on the riders performance it should only been given if a rider performs much better than his average level. Good examples are Spilak in TDS and TDR as well as Nibali in Giro or Hayman at P-R.
Bad examples are imo Porte in TDF, Quintana in Giro. Porte did not perform exceedingly well in the TDF over the last years, if you take his good mountain stat into account. Same goes for Quintana (I know that he has already won the giro). I would award the attribute less often, that would make it more important and more valuable. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 26-11-2024 14:50
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 09-08-2017 17:57
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Sprinter
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Lukas That's actually good news and means that fav race works well and what I'll do is trim it own and limit the amount of riders that will benefit from it
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| Maddox |
Posted on 09-08-2017 18:16
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Croatia14 wrote:
Thanks again Maddox! While Wallin answered potential questions himself, we adjusted also Hulgaard, Salby and Siggard according to your suggestions.
Casper Pedersen is a very different topic. I'm not really sure what type of rider he is, his results would suggest that he is a very strong flat guy with a handy sprint on his side. Or is he really more of a classical sprinter? His racing attitude reminded me more of a Boasson Hagen type of rider (without the uphill), a fast man that is not fear of going hard before the finish. Is that near to the point?
In other terms: Would you also like to rank the young danes by the potential they'd offer from your hindsight? Went pretty deep into it, but a second view won't hurt it.
'CP' can be described as a Cort or Boasson Hagen light. I think that would be pretty on point. Also quite strong on hilly terrains - for example in Eschborn-Frankfurt U23.
Yes, of course. Can you send a PM with the concerned riders? |
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 14-08-2017 23:32
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Update for the legendary Amaro Antunes pls. Along with Balarcon ofc.
Also Neilands impressed me today. Bizkarra has also been riding pretty good whole race. Also Vicente Garcia de Mateos seems to be better than last year.
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan'
Gracias Alberto.
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 27-08-2017 19:22
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Froome 83 mointain
82 and down all others |
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| Aquarius97 |
Posted on 27-08-2017 20:44
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Grand Tour Specialist
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He's back!
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 28-08-2017 06:03
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What do you think about Viviani??? He is on fire now?, or he improves a little?? |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 29-08-2017 21:19
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
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AiZaK wrote:
What do you think about Viviani??? He is on fire now?, or he improves a little??
Viviani is the kind of rider that goes into good form and comes out of it equally quick. I think he's better kept at 78/80 with just improved flat, sta and res stats than being improved to 79 sprint.
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| bah |
Posted on 29-08-2017 23:22
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When I go into a topic and see an Arberg post before mine
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 30-08-2017 16:59
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Gianni Moscon in Mountain??? What do you think about him??? 74? 75? |
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