Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
I don't care that it's Cav, but I find it hard to believe it was an accident given he looked back twice and still swung down, he must've seen him.
Even if it was an accident, you should still get DSQed for something that bad.
Well, when cycling, I also always look back out of reflex, but in the end I can't see shit. I mean this scene was in slo-mo...he probably looked something like 0.2 seconds behind or smth.
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
It can be broken down further to if someone from any other country would have done this it would have been an accident, because it's someone from Britain it was on purpose.
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
It can be broken down further to if someone from any other country would have done this it would have been an accident, because it's someone from Britain it was on purpose.
It has nothing to do with nationalism.
It's because it's not the first time this happened with Cavendish. I can remember 5 or 6 times he caused a crash mid sprint because of his manouevres.
Same is done with Bouhanni when he brushes shoulders with someone (don't remember Bouhanni ever causing a crash) and same was done with Graeme Brown the many times he ended careers because of reckless riding.
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
It can be broken down further to if someone from any other country would have done this it would have been an accident, because it's someone from Britain it was on purpose.
It has nothing to do with nationalism.
It's because it's not the first time this happened with Cavendish. I can remember 5 or 6 times he caused a crash mid sprint because of his manouevres.
Same is done with Bouhanni when he brushes shoulders with someone (don't remember Bouhanni ever causing a crash) and same was done with Graeme Brown the many times he ended careers because of reckless riding.
Don't play the nationalism card. It's pathetic.
From what I've seen in the cycling there have been several crashes caused by several different riders but no one else has been called out for it.
Read this site as a whole and you'll see it's true.
Froome is on drugs, Wiggins was on drugs, Sky are all on drugs, Cavendish is a cheat and causes crashes on purpose. Armistead was cleared of any wrong doing yet is still being labeled a cheat without failing any test yet no one batters an eyelid at the Russian team being allowed to compete.
What they are is the strongest cycling team of all time and 4 of the greatest cyclists of all time.
Britain have dominated the track cycling yet again at the Rio Olympics and instead of "well done", it's all about Cavendish causing a crash and Froome failing to win the road race.
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
It can be broken down further to if someone from any other country would have done this it would have been an accident, because it's someone from Britain it was on purpose.
It has nothing to do with nationalism.
It's because it's not the first time this happened with Cavendish. I can remember 5 or 6 times he caused a crash mid sprint because of his manouevres.
Same is done with Bouhanni when he brushes shoulders with someone (don't remember Bouhanni ever causing a crash) and same was done with Graeme Brown the many times he ended careers because of reckless riding.
Don't play the nationalism card. It's pathetic.
From what I've seen in the cycling there have been several crashes caused by several different riders but no one else has been called out for it.
Read this site as a whole and you'll see it's true.
Froome is on drugs, Wiggins was on drugs, Sky are all on drugs, Cavendish is a cheat and causes crashes on purpose. Armistead was cleared of any wrong doing yet is still being labeled a cheat without failing any test yet no one batters an eyelid at the Russian team being allowed to compete.
What they are is the strongest cycling team of all time and 4 of the greatest cyclists of all time.
Britain have dominated the track cycling yet again at the Rio Olympics and instead of "well done", it's all about Cavendish causing a crash and Froome failing to win the road race.
Lol
I never understand why people have to make everything about nationality. Your view on certain sportlers seems to be clouded depending on where the sportler is from. If someone doesn't agree with you on someone, mostly the reason is not that they hate British people. Most sane of who consider Froome a drug cheat think the same about the majority of other top 10 riders. Cycling has a big doping past so it is in no way surprising that such a dominating team like Sky gets questioned. Especially if their most successful rider made an almost unbelievable jump in performance at a for a cyclist uncommon age.
The thing about Cavendish is that he is perceived as a proper dickhead. I remember some interviews from him, in which he didn't exactly come off as a likeable guy. Also he is known for doing risky maneuvers on the bike occasionally. What happened yesterday just fitted into how Cavendish came off generally, so it is no surprise he gets blamed for the crash even if it wasn't intentionally. The same will happen if Bouhanni, no British fyi, will cause a crash.
The Russians that are allowed to enter the Olympics were all cleared to go by the same CAS that gave Armitstead the right to start. You really need to make up your mind if the CAS is a credible institution or not.
Also you maybe need to explain how it fits into your "everyone is against Britain"-attitude, that riders like the Yates or Cummings are generally enjoyed and not attributed as cheats despite being quite successful and British.
In my oppinion the main reason for Britains rise in cycling is good work after they started to put lots of money into developing their talents prior to the London Olympics. So a "well done" is due there, but money can not only be used for superior training facilities and nutrition programs, that's why a certain doubt is needed. I see noone here that so much focused at nationalities as you are, so I think it is kind of ironic what you wrote there. Just because someone is British, doesn't mean he shouldn't be doubted or critisized when causing a crash.
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
It can be broken down further to if someone from any other country would have done this it would have been an accident, because it's someone from Britain it was on purpose.
It has nothing to do with nationalism.
It's because it's not the first time this happened with Cavendish. I can remember 5 or 6 times he caused a crash mid sprint because of his manouevres.
Same is done with Bouhanni when he brushes shoulders with someone (don't remember Bouhanni ever causing a crash) and same was done with Graeme Brown the many times he ended careers because of reckless riding.
Don't play the nationalism card. It's pathetic.
From what I've seen in the cycling there have been several crashes caused by several different riders but no one else has been called out for it.
Read this site as a whole and you'll see it's true.
Froome is on drugs, Wiggins was on drugs, Sky are all on drugs, Cavendish is a cheat and causes crashes on purpose. Armistead was cleared of any wrong doing yet is still being labeled a cheat without failing any test yet no one batters an eyelid at the Russian team being allowed to compete.
What they are is the strongest cycling team of all time and 4 of the greatest cyclists of all time.
Britain have dominated the track cycling yet again at the Rio Olympics and instead of "well done", it's all about Cavendish causing a crash and Froome failing to win the road race.
Cav, Froome, Wiggo, Armit... some of the 4 greatest of all time? Lol.
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
It can be broken down further to if someone from any other country would have done this it would have been an accident, because it's someone from Britain it was on purpose.
It has nothing to do with nationalism.
It's because it's not the first time this happened with Cavendish. I can remember 5 or 6 times he caused a crash mid sprint because of his manouevres.
Same is done with Bouhanni when he brushes shoulders with someone (don't remember Bouhanni ever causing a crash) and same was done with Graeme Brown the many times he ended careers because of reckless riding.
Don't play the nationalism card. It's pathetic.
From what I've seen in the cycling there have been several crashes caused by several different riders but no one else has been called out for it.
Read this site as a whole and you'll see it's true.
Froome is on drugs, Wiggins was on drugs, Sky are all on drugs, Cavendish is a cheat and causes crashes on purpose. Armistead was cleared of any wrong doing yet is still being labeled a cheat without failing any test yet no one batters an eyelid at the Russian team being allowed to compete.
What they are is the strongest cycling team of all time and 4 of the greatest cyclists of all time.
Britain have dominated the track cycling yet again at the Rio Olympics and instead of "well done", it's all about Cavendish causing a crash and Froome failing to win the road race.
Cav, Froome, Wiggo, Armit... some of the 4 greatest of all time? Lol.
What's LOL about it?
Froome - 3 TdF
Wiggins - 1 TdF and 5 Olympic Gold Medals from 2000 to 2016
Cavendish - Greatest road sprinter of all time? For 5/6 years he was unbeatable. World Champ, MSR.
Armistead - Won practically everything there is to win in Women's cycling, Olympics excepting.
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
It can be broken down further to if someone from any other country would have done this it would have been an accident, because it's someone from Britain it was on purpose.
It has nothing to do with nationalism.
It's because it's not the first time this happened with Cavendish. I can remember 5 or 6 times he caused a crash mid sprint because of his manouevres.
Same is done with Bouhanni when he brushes shoulders with someone (don't remember Bouhanni ever causing a crash) and same was done with Graeme Brown the many times he ended careers because of reckless riding.
Don't play the nationalism card. It's pathetic.
From what I've seen in the cycling there have been several crashes caused by several different riders but no one else has been called out for it.
Read this site as a whole and you'll see it's true.
Froome is on drugs, Wiggins was on drugs, Sky are all on drugs, Cavendish is a cheat and causes crashes on purpose. Armistead was cleared of any wrong doing yet is still being labeled a cheat without failing any test yet no one batters an eyelid at the Russian team being allowed to compete.
What they are is the strongest cycling team of all time and 4 of the greatest cyclists of all time.
Britain have dominated the track cycling yet again at the Rio Olympics and instead of "well done", it's all about Cavendish causing a crash and Froome failing to win the road race.
Lol
I never understand why people have to make everything about nationality. Your view on certain sportlers seems to be clouded depending on where the sportler is from. If someone doesn't agree with you on someone, mostly the reason is not that they hate British people. Most sane of who consider Froome a drug cheat think the same about the majority of other top 10 riders. Cycling has a big doping past so it is in no way surprising that such a dominating team like Sky gets questioned. Especially if their most successful rider made an almost unbelievable jump in performance at a for a cyclist uncommon age.
The thing about Cavendish is that he is perceived as a proper dickhead. I remember some interviews from him, in which he didn't exactly come off as a likeable guy. Also he is known for doing risky maneuvers on the bike occasionally. What happened yesterday just fitted into how Cavendish came off generally, so it is no surprise he gets blamed for the crash even if it wasn't intentionally. The same will happen if Bouhanni, no British fyi, will cause a crash.
The Russians that are allowed to enter the Olympics were all cleared to go by the same CAS that gave Armitstead the right to start. You really need to make up your mind if the CAS is a credible institution or not.
Also you maybe need to explain how it fits into your "everyone is against Britain"-attitude, that riders like the Yates or Cummings are generally enjoyed and not attributed as cheats despite being quite successful and British.
In my oppinion the main reason for Britains rise in cycling is good work after they started to put lots of money into developing their talents prior to the London Olympics. So a "well done" is due there, but money can not only be used for superior training facilities and nutrition programs, that's why a certain doubt is needed. I see noone here that so much focused at nationalities as you are, so I think it is kind of ironic what you wrote there. Just because someone is British, doesn't mean he shouldn't be doubted or critisized when causing a crash.
I agree with most of what you say. But just to clarify my position, I have never started conversations about how great Britain is or anything like that. I only get involved where I believe they are being unfairly singled out, which happens alot on here given all the Froome, Cavendish and Sky bashing.
Yes there is always a doubt, but to date it is unfounded which is why I speak up when people talk about Froome/Sky doping and Cavendish being a dickhead like it's a fact. You don't have any idea what he is like as a person, only as a professional atherlete in the heat of battle.
I agree that to nationalise everything is wrong, but also I believe it's perfectly OK to defend your country if they are being unfairly treated, which is all I'm doing.
Now let's get back to watching GB win a few more golds on the track (that's a joke by the way )
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
It can be broken down further to if someone from any other country would have done this it would have been an accident, because it's someone from Britain it was on purpose.
It has nothing to do with nationalism.
It's because it's not the first time this happened with Cavendish. I can remember 5 or 6 times he caused a crash mid sprint because of his manouevres.
Same is done with Bouhanni when he brushes shoulders with someone (don't remember Bouhanni ever causing a crash) and same was done with Graeme Brown the many times he ended careers because of reckless riding.
Don't play the nationalism card. It's pathetic.
From what I've seen in the cycling there have been several crashes caused by several different riders but no one else has been called out for it.
Read this site as a whole and you'll see it's true.
Froome is on drugs, Wiggins was on drugs, Sky are all on drugs, Cavendish is a cheat and causes crashes on purpose. Armistead was cleared of any wrong doing yet is still being labeled a cheat without failing any test yet no one batters an eyelid at the Russian team being allowed to compete.
What they are is the strongest cycling team of all time and 4 of the greatest cyclists of all time.
Britain have dominated the track cycling yet again at the Rio Olympics and instead of "well done", it's all about Cavendish causing a crash and Froome failing to win the road race.
Cav, Froome, Wiggo, Armit... some of the 4 greatest of all time? Lol.
What's LOL about it?
Froome - 3 TdF
Wiggins - 1 TdF and 5 Olympic Gold Medals from 2000 to 2016
Cavendish - Greatest road sprinter of all time? For 5/6 years he was unbeatable. World Champ, MSR.
Armistead - Won practically everything there is to win in Women's cycling, Olympics excepting.
Wouldn't even call those 4 definitively the greatest 4 of all time (at least not Anqutil), but are you honestly telling me Wiggins, Cavendish and Froome are better than those 4 as well as Pantani, Maertens, Van Looy, Bartali, Cipollini, Armstrong, Bindi just off the top of my head?
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
I don't care that it's Cav, but I find it hard to believe it was an accident given he looked back twice and still swung down, he must've seen him.
Even if it was an accident, you should still get DSQed for something that bad.
Well, when cycling, I also always look back out of reflex, but in the end I can't see shit. I mean this scene was in slo-mo...he probably looked something like 0.2 seconds behind or smth.
If you can't tell what's behind you when you look back, swinging down the track generally isn't a good idea.
Riis123 wrote:
Cav, Froome, Wiggo, Armit... some of the 4 greatest of all time? Lol.
What's LOL about it?
Froome - 3 TdF
Wiggins - 1 TdF and 5 Olympic Gold Medals from 2000 to 2016
Cavendish - Greatest road sprinter of all time? For 5/6 years he was unbeatable. World Champ, MSR.
Armistead - Won practically everything there is to win in Women's cycling, Olympics excepting.
I think only wiggins and arminstead can be considered greatest of all timers imo and wiggins only because his good result are in extremely varied in fields and arminstead are basically outshined by other riders that have done the same but more afaik
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
It can be broken down further to if someone from any other country would have done this it would have been an accident, because it's someone from Britain it was on purpose.
It has nothing to do with nationalism.
It's because it's not the first time this happened with Cavendish. I can remember 5 or 6 times he caused a crash mid sprint because of his manouevres.
Same is done with Bouhanni when he brushes shoulders with someone (don't remember Bouhanni ever causing a crash) and same was done with Graeme Brown the many times he ended careers because of reckless riding.
Don't play the nationalism card. It's pathetic.
From what I've seen in the cycling there have been several crashes caused by several different riders but no one else has been called out for it.
Read this site as a whole and you'll see it's true.
Froome is on drugs, Wiggins was on drugs, Sky are all on drugs, Cavendish is a cheat and causes crashes on purpose. Armistead was cleared of any wrong doing yet is still being labeled a cheat without failing any test yet no one batters an eyelid at the Russian team being allowed to compete.
What they are is the strongest cycling team of all time and 4 of the greatest cyclists of all time.
Britain have dominated the track cycling yet again at the Rio Olympics and instead of "well done", it's all about Cavendish causing a crash and Froome failing to win the road race.
Cav, Froome, Wiggo, Armit... some of the 4 greatest of all time? Lol.
What's LOL about it?
Froome - 3 TdF
Wiggins - 1 TdF and 5 Olympic Gold Medals from 2000 to 2016
Cavendish - Greatest road sprinter of all time? For 5/6 years he was unbeatable. World Champ, MSR.
Armistead - Won practically everything there is to win in Women's cycling, Olympics excepting.
Wouldn't even call those 4 definitively the greatest 4 of all time (at least not Anqutil), but are you honestly telling me Wiggins, Cavendish and Froome are better than those 4 as well as Pantani, Maertens, Van Looy, Bartali, Cipollini, Armstrong, Bindi just off the top of my head?
You seem to be confusing the phrase 4 OF THE greatest with the phrase THE 4 greatest. Two completely different things.
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
It can be broken down further to if someone from any other country would have done this it would have been an accident, because it's someone from Britain it was on purpose.
It has nothing to do with nationalism.
It's because it's not the first time this happened with Cavendish. I can remember 5 or 6 times he caused a crash mid sprint because of his manouevres.
Same is done with Bouhanni when he brushes shoulders with someone (don't remember Bouhanni ever causing a crash) and same was done with Graeme Brown the many times he ended careers because of reckless riding.
Don't play the nationalism card. It's pathetic.
From what I've seen in the cycling there have been several crashes caused by several different riders but no one else has been called out for it.
Read this site as a whole and you'll see it's true.
Froome is on drugs, Wiggins was on drugs, Sky are all on drugs, Cavendish is a cheat and causes crashes on purpose. Armistead was cleared of any wrong doing yet is still being labeled a cheat without failing any test yet no one batters an eyelid at the Russian team being allowed to compete.
What they are is the strongest cycling team of all time and 4 of the greatest cyclists of all time.
Britain have dominated the track cycling yet again at the Rio Olympics and instead of "well done", it's all about Cavendish causing a crash and Froome failing to win the road race.
Cav, Froome, Wiggo, Armit... some of the 4 greatest of all time? Lol.
What's LOL about it?
Froome - 3 TdF
Wiggins - 1 TdF and 5 Olympic Gold Medals from 2000 to 2016
Cavendish - Greatest road sprinter of all time? For 5/6 years he was unbeatable. World Champ, MSR.
Armistead - Won practically everything there is to win in Women's cycling, Olympics excepting.
Wouldn't even call those 4 definitively the greatest 4 of all time (at least not Anqutil), but are you honestly telling me Wiggins, Cavendish and Froome are better than those 4 as well as Pantani, Maertens, Van Looy, Bartali, Cipollini, Armstrong, Bindi just off the top of my head?
I kinda agree with you, but you can't compare these cyclists with the post-2010 cyclists. Cycling evolved. Racing was never closer. It's not possible to dominate cycling like Merckx did. So what Cav achieved makes him one of the greatest sprinters of all time. Wiggins is probably a special case, because he won the TdF and track medals, which is very special to me. Froome isn't one of the greatest yet, I admit. And Armitsted is the 2nd greatest woman cyclist of all time behind Vos.
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
I don't care that it's Cav, but I find it hard to believe it was an accident given he looked back twice and still swung down, he must've seen him.
Even if it was an accident, you should still get DSQed for something that bad.
Well, when cycling, I also always look back out of reflex, but in the end I can't see shit. I mean this scene was in slo-mo...he probably looked something like 0.2 seconds behind or smth.
If you can't tell what's behind you when you look back, swinging down the track generally isn't a good idea.
For sure it was a mistake, but I don't think he did it on purpose.
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
It can be broken down further to if someone from any other country would have done this it would have been an accident, because it's someone from Britain it was on purpose.
It has nothing to do with nationalism.
It's because it's not the first time this happened with Cavendish. I can remember 5 or 6 times he caused a crash mid sprint because of his manouevres.
Same is done with Bouhanni when he brushes shoulders with someone (don't remember Bouhanni ever causing a crash) and same was done with Graeme Brown the many times he ended careers because of reckless riding.
Don't play the nationalism card. It's pathetic.
From what I've seen in the cycling there have been several crashes caused by several different riders but no one else has been called out for it.
Read this site as a whole and you'll see it's true.
Froome is on drugs, Wiggins was on drugs, Sky are all on drugs, Cavendish is a cheat and causes crashes on purpose. Armistead was cleared of any wrong doing yet is still being labeled a cheat without failing any test yet no one batters an eyelid at the Russian team being allowed to compete.
What they are is the strongest cycling team of all time and 4 of the greatest cyclists of all time.
Britain have dominated the track cycling yet again at the Rio Olympics and instead of "well done", it's all about Cavendish causing a crash and Froome failing to win the road race.
Cav, Froome, Wiggo, Armit... some of the 4 greatest of all time? Lol.
What's LOL about it?
Froome - 3 TdF
Wiggins - 1 TdF and 5 Olympic Gold Medals from 2000 to 2016
Cavendish - Greatest road sprinter of all time? For 5/6 years he was unbeatable. World Champ, MSR.
Armistead - Won practically everything there is to win in Women's cycling, Olympics excepting.
Wouldn't even call those 4 definitively the greatest 4 of all time (at least not Anqutil), but are you honestly telling me Wiggins, Cavendish and Froome are better than those 4 as well as Pantani, Maertens, Van Looy, Bartali, Cipollini, Armstrong, Bindi just off the top of my head?
You seem to be confusing the phrase 4 OF THE greatest with the phrase THE 4 greatest. Two completely different things.
How many riders do you consider to be one of the greatest? I listed 11 cyclists who were much better than them and could easily list another 15-20, maybe more, but if you consider the greatest to include those types of riders, than fair enough.
And no problem with the dislike, but you can press it again to remove it.
Paul23 wrote:
Would someone else have done this, it would have been an "accident", but with Cav it's on purpose?
It can be broken down further to if someone from any other country would have done this it would have been an accident, because it's someone from Britain it was on purpose.
It has nothing to do with nationalism.
It's because it's not the first time this happened with Cavendish. I can remember 5 or 6 times he caused a crash mid sprint because of his manouevres.
Same is done with Bouhanni when he brushes shoulders with someone (don't remember Bouhanni ever causing a crash) and same was done with Graeme Brown the many times he ended careers because of reckless riding.
Don't play the nationalism card. It's pathetic.
From what I've seen in the cycling there have been several crashes caused by several different riders but no one else has been called out for it.
Read this site as a whole and you'll see it's true.
Froome is on drugs, Wiggins was on drugs, Sky are all on drugs, Cavendish is a cheat and causes crashes on purpose. Armistead was cleared of any wrong doing yet is still being labeled a cheat without failing any test yet no one batters an eyelid at the Russian team being allowed to compete.
What they are is the strongest cycling team of all time and 4 of the greatest cyclists of all time.
Britain have dominated the track cycling yet again at the Rio Olympics and instead of "well done", it's all about Cavendish causing a crash and Froome failing to win the road race.
Cav, Froome, Wiggo, Armit... some of the 4 greatest of all time? Lol.
What's LOL about it?
Froome - 3 TdF
Wiggins - 1 TdF and 5 Olympic Gold Medals from 2000 to 2016
Cavendish - Greatest road sprinter of all time? For 5/6 years he was unbeatable. World Champ, MSR.
Armistead - Won practically everything there is to win in Women's cycling, Olympics excepting.
Wouldn't even call those 4 definitively the greatest 4 of all time (at least not Anqutil), but are you honestly telling me Wiggins, Cavendish and Froome are better than those 4 as well as Pantani, Maertens, Van Looy, Bartali, Cipollini, Armstrong, Bindi just off the top of my head?
I kinda agree with you, but you can't compare these cyclists with the post-2010 cyclists. Cycling evolved. Racing was never closer. It's not possible to dominate cycling like Merckx did. So what Cav achieved makes him one of the greatest sprinters of all time. Wiggins is probably a special case, because he won the TdF and track medals, which is very special to me. Froome isn't one of the greatest yet, I admit. And Armitsted is the 2nd greatest woman cyclist of all time behind Vos.
That's a petty good point but they still never manage to match the level that the greats reach, since some actually won more TDFs than Froome for example (although he could still win more) amongst the other races they won, so I find it hard to consider Froome, Wiggins or Cav on the same level as them, although Armistead could be, I don't know.
I would say that given the thousands of professional riders throughout the years Cavendish, Wiggins and Froome would be in the top 50 on the road. Obviously if you include all disciplines that may change but it's impossible to really compare road to mountain biking or cross for example.
Persinsllu I would say 3 TdF wins puts Froome in the top 50 already, but given as he is fairly sure to win 1 or 2 more at least he will defo be in there by the end of his career.
Armistead is defo in the top 2 or 3 women of all time.
ringo182 wrote:
I would say that given the thousands of professional riders throughout the years Cavendish, Wiggins and Froome would be in the top 50 on the road. Obviously if you include all disciplines that may change but it's impossible to really compare road to mountain biking or cross for example.
Persinsllu I would say 3 TdF wins puts Froome in the top 50 already, but given as he is fairly sure to win 1 or 2 more at least he will defo be in there by the end of his career.
Armistead is defo in the top 2 or 3 women of all time.
Fair enough, I guess I just didn't consider the top 50 as an all-time 'great' but with the number of Pro cyclists there has been, that's fair enough.
Although I'm not sure Wiggins or Cav are in the top 50, more likely top 100 imo.
(that's a joke by the way 
)
