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News in June
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 01-07-2016 10:17
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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So why actually are you proud? Because you've done nothing to build this country you live in. What exactly are you proud about? (actually a question, I know it sounds sarcastic but I'm actually interested about the answer) |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 01-07-2016 10:18
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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Ian Butler wrote:
George Carlin touched on this topic perfectly.
He says: how can you be proud of your nationality? It's not something you could've done about, nothing noteworthy of all. It's just something that you were born into.
It's like you'd be proud you have blue eyes, proud you're a man, proud you have two arms.
He says you can be proud of things you've done, but it's silly to be proud of something that just happened to you.
That's bull"*&!. You were just born into your family. Can you not be proud of them?
What's wrong of being proud of where you come from?
I'm British. For a tiny Island, Britain has probably had more of an impact in the shaping of the modern world then most others. That is something to be proud of. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 01-07-2016 10:22
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Ian Butler wrote:
So why actually are you proud? Because you've done nothing to build this country you live in. What exactly are you proud about? (actually a question, I know it sounds sarcastic but I'm actually interested about the answer)
Being proud doesn't mean something you have done. Your childs first step or word is something you haven't done but it's one of the proudest moments of your life.
If your best friend runs a marathon are you saying you wouldn't be proud of them. You seem to be misunderstanding the term proud.
If you are only proud of things you have achieved then you end up like Cristiano Ronaldo. |
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 01-07-2016 10:25
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World Champion
Posts: 11395
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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Ah, Ian wants a nationalistic rant. I'll hit you guys up with one tommorow.
And it'll be serious, it's an interesting topic 
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
2x  x2 |
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| Ad Bot |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 01-07-2016 11:12
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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But this debate is not about nationalism or nationality. It is about expecting that (at their core) local teams have a national responsibility to hire and develop a certain degree riders. This is what bbl wants and to be fair, this is what actually is the smart thing. Do you expect Topsport Vlaanderen to actually develop riders from Kazakhstan? No, of course you don't. But how should riders then develop actually? Do you just care about the big World Tour team? Do you expect riders to leave their homes to go overseas for training 365 days?
Look at Betancur, how he turned so fat and now is happy again at Movistar. To deny the importance of a national, linguistic and team identity is to deny them off basic human principles & needs. Riders need to belong to a place. They are not some international jetsetters. After the race, they need a place to go home to, too.
The responsibility of each team to support the national cycling comes from the national licence, the sponsor money and the support they receive from local communities. It is only just that teams support their own riders, whilst they are of course free to pursue international star riders as well as domestiques. But to say that americans are not important on an american squad does not help the cuase, it just weakens the support in the population of each team. Because people will say: American team, what american guys are on their? Why should I care? (Of course you are free to replace american with an ynationality really).
Do not try to make this a proud race thing when the important issue is that you want to create a vibrant, supportive envirnoment for riders and amateurs alike, so that they can adapt and learn and grow into the sport they want to make their profession. And for that to happen, you need a World Tour squad that is able and willing and brave enough to actually support their own riders, who sees chances in them. Cannondale does that only to very little extent and the two important talents they hired from other WT squads.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 01-07-2016 11:28
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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ringo182 wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
So why actually are you proud? Because you've done nothing to build this country you live in. What exactly are you proud about? (actually a question, I know it sounds sarcastic but I'm actually interested about the answer)
Being proud doesn't mean something you have done. Your childs first step or word is something you haven't done but it's one of the proudest moments of your life.
If your best friend runs a marathon are you saying you wouldn't be proud of them. You seem to be misunderstanding the term proud.
If you are only proud of things you have achieved then you end up like Cristiano Ronaldo.
Yeah but those are all examples of people close to you. Of course you can be proud of your children or friends when they do something (I realize I didn't write that before, but of course). But a country is something else. It's some imaginary lines and some laws that you were born into. Being proud of that is just ... a lot of bull to me.
But obviously you can be proud of the people you are close to, I should've mentioned that before.
I was more refering to when you'd say: I'm proud to be Belgian. Why? What have you done about that? It's something you are and something that can't be changed.
Running a marathon, taking your first steps (or a friend or whatever), that's something they DO.
Belonging to a country is something you ARE, it's just a fact.
To me it's a big distinction.
Sure, you can be happy to be Belgian. But proud? Meh. Sounds silly. |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 01-07-2016 11:41
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Funny enough the people who are proud of their country are only considering the positive news.
"shaping of the modern world" 
What about the child molesting which seems to be common amongst the rich, politicians and cleric in GB?
Wouldn't it be better to explicitly mention the things you are proud of instead of this silly "I am proud to be XXX". Because in my option there are plenty more things you cannot be proud of. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 01-07-2016 11:47
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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*looks at Armstrong fans* be careful who you or what you support, but don't let others stop you either #Lance7TimeWinner
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 01-07-2016 11:56
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Lachi wrote:
Funny enough the people who are proud of their country are only considering the positive news.
"shaping of the modern world"
What about the child molesting which seems to be common amongst the rich, politicians and cleric in GB?
Wouldn't it be better to explicitly mention the things you are proud of instead of this silly "I am proud to be XXX". Because in my option there are plenty more things you cannot be proud of.
What a sick, ridiculous and bitter comment. I'm fairly sure child molesters are prevalent in every country. To say the problem is isolated to Britain is pathetic.
If you're ashamed of your country then that's your problem. What right does anyone have to tell me not to be proud of where I come from?
I can't believe this site sometimes. A simple comment about being proud of my country results in a post accusing all the politicians, religious leaders and wealthy people to be peadophiles. |
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| Lachi |
Posted on 01-07-2016 12:17
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8516
Joined: 29-06-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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I did not say it is isolated to Britain but it is also part of the British history and it is something nobody should be proud of.
If you insist to be proud of the British history, then maybe you are the sick person.
But I don't judge, I just think it is funny how people ignore the ugly stuff. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 01-07-2016 12:42
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Can we stick to the cycling news, instead of pathetic neomarxist bullshit, telling others what they should do, what they should think and what they can be proud of?
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 01-07-2016 13:09
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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Lachi wrote:
I did not say it is isolated to Britain but it is also part of the British history and it is something nobody should be proud of.
If you insist to be proud of the British history, then maybe you are the sick person.
But I don't judge, I just think it is funny how people ignore the ugly stuff.
I honestly cannot believe that comment.
I think that comment is borderline racist. If a member of the board from any other country said they were proud of where they are from would you bring up paedophiles or accuse them of being sick? I've got half a mind to report you to the administrators. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 01-07-2016 13:30
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
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Please guys let's stay on-topic without going personal
Thanks.
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 01-07-2016 13:36
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Sprinter
Posts: 1765
Joined: 27-08-2012
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Ian, thanks for quoting George Carlin. The best comedian to have ever lived  . |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 01-07-2016 13:46
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
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TheManxMissile wrote:
*looks at Armstrong fans* be careful who you or what you support, but don't let others stop you either #Lance7TimeWinner
If I was American, damn right I'd be proud of Lance. What a man, I still imitate his Luz Ardiden 2003 ascent. |
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| Mateo4 |
Posted on 01-07-2016 14:05
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Free Agent
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"Carter Jones (USA) has chosen to leave professional cycling in order to focus on a different career path."
https://teamgianta...l-cycling/ |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 01-07-2016 15:13
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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Anybody who's been on this site for a long time knows how much of an Armstrong fanboy I was, so I'm just going to let this conversation end. 
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 01-07-2016 15:21
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World Champion
Posts: 11971
Joined: 21-07-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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Ian Butler wrote:
how can you be proud of your nationality? It's not something you could've done about, nothing noteworthy of all. It's just something that you were born into.
It's like you'd be proud you have blue eyes, proud you're a man, proud you have two arms.
well it helps me sleep at night when I remember the reason I haven't made it big in anything I do is because the dutch people are freaking good at it so I júst missed out
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
