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News in May
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 12-05-2016 13:20
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Tour de France Champion
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Kirchen_75 wrote:
This conversation is still going on? 
I like cobbles so IMO Tour de France should ditch all the mountain stages and make 21 stages in Northern France and West Vlaanderen. Yay!
Riis123 wrote:
As much as your post was humorous, it is also how you feel about the subject 
HOW DARE YOU HAVE AN OPINION OR BE HUMOUROUS!!!
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 12-05-2016 13:47
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Grand Tour Specialist
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I think its good the moderators really try to engage in discussions without trying to ridicule other posters posts.
We simply have different opinions, thats it. That you don't agree with moving the Giro to the countries I've mentioned doesn't impact the quality of racing and transfers are the only problem, well, that I can't understand. And just to throw it out there, the Giro started in northern Italy last year and if I remember correctly, that panned out just fine. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 12-05-2016 13:55
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Tour de France Champion
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This has all been discussed before and elsewhere. I just don't care because it's not going to go anywhere.
You pulled me in, not my fault if me making a joke wasn't serious enough.
Edited by TheManxMissile on 12-05-2016 13:58
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 12-05-2016 13:58
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Why do you engage in the discussion then? |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 12-05-2016 14:04
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
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Serves me right for making a joke i guess
Back to News: Looking forwards to seeing Erik Baska at the ToC, could be a good race for him if Sagan doesn't take all the Tinkoff spotlight
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| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 12-05-2016 14:05
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
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you..again. Always you are one part of conflict. |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 12-05-2016 14:10
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
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And you are always all over me no matter what I write in here..
I like you gifs or whatever those are called, TMM. They are super funny  |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 12-05-2016 14:18
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World Champion
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Back to News: Looking forwards to seeing Erik Baska at the ToC, could be a good race for him if Sagan doesn't take all the Tinkoff spotlight
Tinkoff could be pretty well named the slovakian national team in California, they bring in there both Sagans, Kolář and Baška. 
Still whole team will ride for Peter i guess, Baška could be a great leadout for him there.
https://www.cyclin...alifornia/
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 12-05-2016 14:21
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World Champion
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Btw. who the fuck is Michael Gogl, i swear i noticed him for the very first time in Tinkoff colours in this startlist. Shonak, knowing something about the guy possibly?
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 12-05-2016 14:23
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Btw. who the fuck is Michael Gogl, i swear i noticed him for the very first time in Tinkoff colours in this startlist. Shonak, knowing something about the guy possibly?
Google Maps? Sagan introduced him quite a few times already.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 12-05-2016 14:49
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World Champion
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Ollfardh wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Btw. who the fuck is Michael Gogl, i swear i noticed him for the very first time in Tinkoff colours in this startlist. Shonak, knowing something about the guy possibly?
Google Maps? Sagan introduced him quite a few times already.
Ahh, true that, completely fogot that
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 07:20
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| aidanvn13 |
Posted on 12-05-2016 17:10
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Serves me right for making a joke i guess
Back to News: Looking forwards to seeing Erik Baska at the ToC, could be a good race for him if Sagan doesn't take all the Tinkoff spotlight
I liked this post because it contains Anna Kendrick.
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| aidanvn13 |
Posted on 12-05-2016 17:12
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Back to News: Looking forwards to seeing Erik Baska at the ToC, could be a good race for him if Sagan doesn't take all the Tinkoff spotlight
Tinkoff could be pretty well named the slovakian national team in California, they bring in there both Sagans, Kolář and Baška.
Still whole team will ride for Peter i guess, Baška could be a great leadout for him there.
https://www.cyclin...alifornia/
Baška/Blythe leadout for Sagan (Peter, that is  ). Would've been cool to see Baška have a go, but why race for someone else when Sagan (Peter, again ) is on your team.
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 12-05-2016 19:15
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Whether hills bring action
Depends what you call action. Looking back at the Tour to '92 and '82 when they last opened with hills aborad the hills went to breakaways in relatively unexciting fashion with minor to no GC action. Other early hills see relatively minimal action beyond shedding those well out of form. Guess it can depend whether it's a hill, a la the Ardennes, or a small mountain because the mountain has the length and steepness to pull the GC boys fowards.
Now is that more exciting? Not inherently unless they decide to go for it on a small mountain on day 2 or 3. I'd rather see the sprinters and their teams go 100% rather than GC teams and riders giving just enough to stay safe.
I'd actually rather see sprint stages with technical finishes and some cobbles around.
I think the point is not that racing automatically becomes better if you just plonk some hills into stages which is what it appears that you're interpreting it as, but if you engineer the parcours of stages so that they create more opportunities for more riders, and hence become more unpredictable, then the racing usually benefits. After all, predictability creates boring sport, and instead of having a stage like Stage 3 of the Giro, where Marcel Kittel's victory was about as predictable as the sun rising in the east the next morning, a stage with perhaps a couple of minor difficulties towards the end of it, where Kittel and an adventurous attacker both had a decent chance of winning, would have been of considerably greater interest to me. To use your example of the 1992 Tour, which is a slightly tenuous one considering how racing trends have developed over the 24 years since, the early stages were probably not particularly exciting as, going by the profiles I can find on the internet, the stages themselves don't look particularly well-desigened, with a good amount of flat after the final climbs on both occasions.
Whether foreign starts are bad
It's just no, foreign starts are good for a number of reasons. Financially of course but they also engage a lot more fans directly and provide huge boosts to regions interests in cycling. It also keeps things fresh allowing for new routes and places to show off. Starting aborad can also bring along riders who would otherwise skip the race, race a GT on home soil? What rider is going to say no! It can incentivise others to go on the attack in front of home crowds.
The only downsides really are the transfer. Now the TDF does this well and just has the race ride back to France, as does the Vuelta in it's rare excursions. Giro has the problem of it's Mountains up north and needs to get somewhat southwards in the race, so riding from way north all the way south doesn' help them make a route. So if they are going to transfer might as well go all in from elsewhere in Europe.
I understand the positives behind foreign starts, but for me they have to contribute something worthwhile to the actual race to be a good thing. The Yorkshire Grand Départ in 2014 was a great success, not only because it brought the Tour to thousands of new fans, but also produced a great little hilly stage that we would not have seen if the race had started up in northern France somewhere. Similarly, the Zeeland and Huy stages of last year's Tour contributed more to the race than the likely alternative, which would have been some boring flat stages in the north of France. In contrast, the start in the Netherlands this year contributed, in racing terms, not only less interesting road stages than we would have seen had the Grande Partenza been in Italy, but its only lasting impact on the race beyond a prologue, which will basically be the same wherever you put it, has been to cause some crashes (and we have been remarkably lucky this year to avoid more big crashes like those that afflicted the 2010 and 2012 Giros, ones with similar foreign starts to this one). Try explaining why the Tour of Italy started in the eastern Netherlands to a non-cycling fan; they're just not going to understand it unless they're a quick-witted cynic.
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 12-05-2016 20:39
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I have been super interested in stage designs for the last couple of years and you can do so little to make a much, much more enjoyable race. Thats why I like to discuss it, but I suppose it would be much better to discuss in the actual race discussion thread. That would probably be best for all parts so those who get worked up over it can dodge it more easily.
Other aren't passionated about stage designs. The attitude is it's good what we are getting and for the most part, it is (take this years Giro and TdF-route, really solid), but I have still been surprised of just how much flag I have been getting for suggesting a few things that I sincerely believe will make the race better and less stale early on. As some poster noted, that Kittel was in pink after stage 3 of Giro d' Italia is an indictment to the race.
I think me and Stromeon share the same mentality. Its not about being old and grumpy, its about shedding light on a few things that actually could improve the product in terms of viewing experience. Last year, when the Giro was released, I was initially disappointed - I mean, Campitello Matese was the hardest MTF and it looked lacklustre. I began to understand, after reading many of Stromeon's posts, that the Giro route actually was super balanced and encouraged long range attacks and action on multiple stages. On top of that, it had many media mountain stages, little unpredictable stages, like stage 4 or 9 which saw superb racing. The hard 3rd stage when Pozzovivo crashed and was decided in a reduced bunch. The shallow MTF at Abetone to sort out between the contenders and the wannabees. That first week of the Giro is standing out to me and is how I believe a 1st week should be. And flat stages in northern Europe simply doesn't contribute to that. And thats a fact - other disagree since they like to watch sprints or whatever, I simply don't find it fascinating apart from the last kilometres. |
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 12-05-2016 20:50
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Grand Tour Champion
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But what if we added more hills to the prologue?
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 12-05-2016 20:51
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
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Flat shouldn't be a problem. I think smaller, bendy roads are the key. Gets the peloton on a line, opens opportunities for attackers. Gives the wind a nice chance.
These big, wide roads kill all the action. Well, my opinion |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 12-05-2016 20:51
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Grand Tour Specialist
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I want longer TTs
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 12-05-2016 21:00
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Ian Butler wrote:
Flat shouldn't be a problem. I think smaller, bendy roads are the key. Gets the peloton on a line, opens opportunities for attackers. Gives the wind a nice chance.
These big, wide roads kill all the action. Well, my opinion
Partly agree! Anything to disrupt the near certainty that it ends in a sprint 2 days in a row - something that can mess it up and not make the result as clear cut. I guess unpredictability is the keyword..
Paul: Definitely agree. Despite having 3 ITT's, the time trial in Chianti could easily have been 10 kilometre longer considering the big mountain passes later on. I fully agree with that - and best if they are flat. |
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 12-05-2016 21:02
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Riis123 wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:
Flat shouldn't be a problem. I think smaller, bendy roads are the key. Gets the peloton on a line, opens opportunities for attackers. Gives the wind a nice chance.
These big, wide roads kill all the action. Well, my opinion
Partly agree! Anything to disrupt the near certainty that it ends in a sprint 2 days in a row - something that can mess it up and not make the result as clear cut. I guess unpredictability is the keyword..
So let me guess this straight, if the main sprinters all crashed it would be less predictable right? Making a flat stage exciting in your definition?
We should just put oil on the roads! To guarantee much more exciting racing
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
