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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 24-04-2016 21:47
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Arberg27 wrote:
trekbmc wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
85 - Gasparotto
82 - Valverde
81 - Alaphilippe, D.Martin
80 - Poels, Albasini
79 - Samuel Sánchez, Rodriguez, Gilbert, Rui Costa, Henao
78 - Valgren, Vuillermoz, Kreuziger, Zakarin, Barguil, Ulissi, Froome, Contador
77 - Moreno, Matthews, Gerrans, Kwiatkowski, Chaves, Quintana, Nibali, Mollema, Rosa
Fixed it for you. 
No he did not win all as Gilbert in 2011, but 1st Amstel Gold Race, 5th Fleche Wallonne La and 12th Liège - Bastogne - Liège is more than enough to 80.
No he won Amstel in 2012, not 2011, isn't it better for his stats for it to be closer though?
Gasparotto deserves 85 definetly, he hasn't finished outside the top 12 in an Ardennes Classic this year!
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 24-04-2016 21:49
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PeterRyder wrote:
Kiserlovski01 wrote:
PeterRyder wrote:
Because thi is the first big Ardennes season from Poels while Costa as been consistant for many years now...
That would only make sense if Costa had shown to be capable of dropping Poels.
And when did Poels drop Costa? In Fleche Wallonne and won Liége-Bastogne-Liége  |
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| Ad Bot |
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| PeterRyder |
Posted on 24-04-2016 22:30
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Domestique
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Costa wasn't dropped, Poels was the fresher elemnet in the group and won because of that.
Flèche is probably the worst hill possible for Rui Costa, and other than that Rui has way better hill results and performances than Poels.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 24-04-2016 23:20
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Good to see a whole load of differing opinions here, even if some are a bit off.
Some points though worth considering before even starting with stat adjustments after the Ardennes classics:
1. Both AG and LBL were strange races this year, AG wasn't quite the uphill sprint that we've become accustomed to, as a few riders took the race by the scruff of the neck. AG is all about RES and STA which is at times hard to match with the PCM versions of the race we have.
LBL because of the weather and that new cobbled climb near the finish was purely an STA race today, with the riders that cope with the cold doing the best.
2. FW on the other hand was the purist race for the hill stat without any doubt, as there was no real STA and it was therefore all about hill and ACC stat up the Mur, so for me it was the best reference point for the hill stat out of the three races.
3. As Manx Missile said these are not the only hilly races, but they are still a centrepoint for the hill stat riders to work on.
I've seen some crazy suggestions for riders like Froome and Contador to be on 79 hill, now of course if these riders need to go up hills fast they can, but as these riders are geared to stage racing, their hill stat doesn't need to be as high as a hill specialist otherwise they'd be even better than they are now. The simple reason why Nibali has a higher hill stat and will continue to do so for now is that he won Lombardia, the biggest hill stat race outside of the Ardennes classics and that result is still relevant.
With the stat update soon to come out, there's no point in putting loads of current hill stats here as the update for April will be out soon. But these are some points worth bearing in mind for the hill stat..
Poels was the best overall rider with a 1st and 4th at LBL and FW, so there is no way that Costa will have a higher hill stat.
Purito is clearly declining but as for how much we have to hazard a guess.
Martin is still one of the very best hill stat riders, his problem if you look at some of his recent results is more of an STA issue, which is a surprise considering that just a few years ago his STA was one of his strengths.
As for Alaphilippe I wouldn't say he was any better than Martin, and it really comes down to how both he and Martin for the game, can kind of exist as joint-leaders.
Gilbert and Kwiat have been dropped from being 80, which is not an issue as they have great flat and RES for hill riders.
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 24-04-2016 23:25
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Domestique
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Martin is still one of the very best hill stat riders, his problem if you look at some of his recent results is more of an STA issue, which is a surprise considering that just a few years ago his STA was one of his strengths.
probably just a form issue. he caught a stomach infection in the basque so he only hung on for the finish in the short race that's essentially one climb. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 25-04-2016 08:32
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Let's not overestimate the results of LBL 2016, the weather played a key role. In general I think we should still see Poels working for Henao and Kwiatek, Albasini for Gerrans and Matthews, Sanchez for Gilbert, etc. so we can't give yesterday's heroes too high stats, in my opinion.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 25-04-2016 10:32
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Poels and Sanchez was also very strong in Fleche Wallonne and Albasini now three years in a row been among the best.
Gerrans and Matthews cannot follow with upwards e.g Mur de Huy and Gilbert is not be the same anymore. |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 25-04-2016 10:33
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It's hard to judge Gilbert due to the broken finger he suffered.
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| ruben |
Posted on 25-04-2016 10:35
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Ollfardh wrote:
Let's not overestimate the results of LBL 2016, the weather played a key role. In general I think we should still see Poels working for Henao and Kwiatek, Albasini for Gerrans and Matthews, Sanchez for Gilbert, etc. so we can't give yesterday's heroes too high stats, in my opinion.
Poels was already 4th in Fleche Wallone and this is the first year he really prepared for the hilly classics. There are plenty of 'puncheur' results in hilly stages in Tirreno and Pais Vasco that prove Poels was already near the top in the past.
I really doubt he is worse than Henao. Kwiatkowski might be marginally better, but not much |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 25-04-2016 10:42
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ruben wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
Let's not overestimate the results of LBL 2016, the weather played a key role. In general I think we should still see Poels working for Henao and Kwiatek, Albasini for Gerrans and Matthews, Sanchez for Gilbert, etc. so we can't give yesterday's heroes too high stats, in my opinion.
Poels was already 4th in Fleche Wallone and this is the first year he really prepared for the hilly classics. There are plenty of 'puncheur' results in hilly stages in Tirreno and Pais Vasco that prove Poels was already near the top in the past.
I really doubt he is worse than Henao. Kwiatkowski might be marginally better, but not much
Lawl. Henao is without a doubt the superior Huy-rider at least, I would put my money on him anyday in that shape. Did you watch Pais Vasco? Seemed to be he was the best climber in that race on those short punchy climbs.
Kwiatek is trash, Poels is better on hilly courses. But Henao? Nah |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 25-04-2016 10:49
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Gilbert suffered from injuries indeed, if you're going to judge him by his Amstel/Fleche results, you can demote him to 72 hill already
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 25-04-2016 13:01
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Ollfardh wrote:
Let's not overestimate the results of LBL 2016, the weather played a key role. In general I think we should still see Poels working for Henao and Kwiatek, Albasini for Gerrans and Matthews, Sanchez for Gilbert, etc. so we can't give yesterday's heroes too high stats, in my opinion.
Good post this and it's something worth noting for the stats to recognize who should actually be team leader. At the moment Gerrans is reduced to 79 hill and Albasini will be either 78 or 79. If Albasini is 79 and the game selects him as leader over Gerrans then that would clearly be wrong as I think Gerrans is just off form, so this needs to be tinkered with.
Sky present an even bigger problem with Kwiat and Henao at 79 hill and Poels certainly deserves that as well. The game AI will pick one as leader which means the other two could be used in any kind of role. I agree with Riis that Henao is the best actual hill climber, Kwiat can get by on his RES but Poels is another kind of climber that can do both mtns and hills equally well.
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 25-04-2016 13:22
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Maybe give Albasani better back up stats? Because I do think Albasini deserves 79 hill to be honest. |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 25-04-2016 14:21
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Albasini is and has always been much better hill climber than Gerrans, which we see every year upwards Mur de Huy. Gerrans was good 2 years ago in Amstel Gold Race and Liege-Bastogne-Liege because of endurance and sprint. No way they should have same hill.
Edited by Arberg27 on 25-04-2016 14:26
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| Maddox |
Posted on 25-04-2016 15:08
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Arberg27 wrote:
Albasini is and has always been much better hill climber than Gerrans, which we see every year upwards Mur de Huy. Gerrans was good 2 years ago in Amstel Gold Race and Liege-Bastogne-Liege because of endurance and sprint. No way they should have same hill.
The problem is that the game cannot reflect this. You have to be aware that the game then will choose Albasini as a leader which a not likely to happen in real life. Albasini might be better, but if he gets better stats, he will be the captain - not Gerrans. This is a problem, because I tend to agree with you that Albasini is a better 'hiller' than Gerrans, but the only way we can get a realistic game, where Gerrans will be the leader, is if Gerrans gets the higher stats.
I don't think this is a good solution, however, but PCM is not a good game at all, and the only way to deal with this problem is that Cyanide makes a feature where rider X will do the race as a leader despite his and other's stats.But that will not happen in my lifetime.
Edited by Maddox on 25-04-2016 15:14
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 25-04-2016 16:08
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Orica–GreenEDGE has none team leader. Albasini, Gerrans, Matthews running their own selfish run.
From Team Sky is Henao leader and as Riis123 says, he is also the best hill climber. |
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 25-04-2016 17:19
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Arberg27 wrote:
82 - Valverde
81 - Alaphilippe, D.Martin
80 - Poels, Albasini, Gasparotto
79 - Samuel Sánchez, Rodriguez, Gilbert, Rui Costa, Henao
78 - Valgren, Vuillermoz, Kreuziger, Zakarin, Barguil, Ulissi, Froome, Contador
77 - Moreno, Matthews, Gerrans, Kwiatkowski, Chaves, Quintana, Nibali, Mollema, Rosa Ahahahaha
Nibali 77
Good laugh
Kwiatek 77 is rubbish as well.
There are more mistakes as well but I don't want to start an argue.
By the way I have always wondered something about Nibali's STA.
I think his STA should be higher than Froome/Contador/Quintana becuase of his results in the monuments when his form is good but it is just my thought. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 25-04-2016 17:59
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Sprinter
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The Schleck Fan wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
82 - Valverde
81 - Alaphilippe, D.Martin
80 - Poels, Albasini, Gasparotto
79 - Samuel Sánchez, Rodriguez, Gilbert, Rui Costa, Henao
78 - Valgren, Vuillermoz, Kreuziger, Zakarin, Barguil, Ulissi, Froome, Contador
77 - Moreno, Matthews, Gerrans, Kwiatkowski, Chaves, Quintana, Nibali, Mollema, Rosa Ahahahaha
Nibali 77
Good laugh
Kwiatek 77 is rubbish as well.
There are more mistakes as well but I don't want to start an argue.
By the way I have always wondered something about Nibali's STA.
I think his STA should be higher than Froome/Contador/Quintana becuase of his results in the monuments when his form is good but it is just my thought.
Well as his hill stat is higher there's no need to increase his STA that much, as after all he is a GT rider first and classics man second. Also a rider with 79 hill and on form can still win big hilly classics with 77 STA no problem.
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| Jorge14 |
Posted on 25-04-2016 18:01
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Stagiare
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Tafiolmo, Thomas De Gent i think its a little bit overrated on the Db any change on their stats. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 25-04-2016 18:07
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Jorge14 wrote:
Tafiolmo, Thomas De Gent i think its a little bit overrated on the Db any change on their stats.
I'm surprised to hear that, as he's on great form at the moment and in loads of breakaways irl. Has he won too many races in your game?
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