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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 31-12-2015 15:25
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
If I'm bored next weak, I may come up with some stats for the cyclocross guys, a lot of new riders who can be compared with the pro's this year.
Cool. |
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 31-12-2015 16:10
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
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I could help if any teams need special help or you guys have a lack of working time
furtheron I could do something for the new Adria or FA Radenska (shame that they aren´t in the db, would be able to create a stat matrix for them pretty good) guys, if needed also for the German CT teams
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 01-01-2016 14:23
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Please add Verva Activejet (Poland) with the future good rider Jordi Simon please!!! |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 01-01-2016 14:36
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
Joined: 17-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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You are aware they're PCT next season?
In any case, requesting the addition of teams won't help I think.
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| Anderis |
Posted on 08-01-2016 10:19
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Domestique
Posts: 471
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Patrick Bevin could use a bit more TT. I know the opposition wasn't too strong at National TT but still 64/63 TT/PR for national champ looks strange. And he has had some decent TT performances before:
https://www.procyc...15_Stage_0
https://www.procyc...s_ITT_2015 |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 08-01-2016 10:37
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Already one step ahead of you, as I've already made some small TT changes based on the Aus and NZ champs. Bevin has been improved quite a bit and he's now at the same level as both Scully and Cooper.
Sergent rode badly as did Bobridge at the Aus TT, not sure if they were not full fit but these riders should've done much better, because they have a proven track record I never touched their TT stats. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 19:20
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Bot Agent
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| roturn |
Posted on 08-01-2016 10:39
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Team Manager
Posts: 22246
Joined: 24-11-2007
PCM$: 3900.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Already one step ahead of you, as I've already made some small TT changes based on the Aus and NZ champs. Bevin has been improved quite a bit and he's now at the same level as both Scully and Cooper.
Sergent rode badly as did Bobridge at the Aus TT, not sure if they were not full fit but these riders should've done much better.
Bobridge most likely was not at 100%.
Last year he was strong in January but he was preparing for the Hour Record.
This year he probably prepares mainly for Rio, hence a completely different schedule.
Sergent...yes he was awful.  |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 08-01-2016 10:46
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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roturn wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Already one step ahead of you, as I've already made some small TT changes based on the Aus and NZ champs. Bevin has been improved quite a bit and he's now at the same level as both Scully and Cooper.
Sergent rode badly as did Bobridge at the Aus TT, not sure if they were not full fit but these riders should've done much better.
Bobridge most likely was not at 100%.
Last year he was strong in January but he was preparing for the Hour Record.
This year he probably prepares mainly for Rio, hence a completely different schedule.
Sergent...yes he was awful.
Bobridge I agree with, but looking at Sergent now I think his TT stats are too high he certainly deserved them in 2014 but like a lot of TT riders had an up and down season in 2015 and in his case there were more downs than ups, so I'll probably drop him a bit.
In fact all I remember him doing in 2015 was getting knocked off his bike in one of the spring classics by a car.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 08-01-2016 10:52
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| clamel |
Posted on 13-01-2016 23:48
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1361
Joined: 13-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Just given Michael Gogl a thought... He has awfully low stats IMHO and this year he will ride for the team he was a trainee for last year. Tinkoff ...
I do hope you have boosted him a bit, especially on mountain and hills I think.
But your call surely
 ____________________________________________
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“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” 
"If thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 14-01-2016 00:00
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World Champion
Posts: 11392
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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I can't remember Sergent ever doing well in a NC TT....
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
2x  x2 |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 15-01-2016 14:48
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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As promised, an attempt to rate the cyclocross riders. Of course it's hard to rate them, as many of them only ride a few races per year and they peak in the winter. Yet with the transfers of Stybar and Boom to a full road season, we can start comparing a bit more. In the past, we've also seen Nys do nice things in the cobbled classics and a mediocre cyclocross rider like Sven Vanthourenhout got two podiums on the Belgian NC road race. Of course it's not entirely fair to compare cyclocross abilities to road racing abilities, but stuff like how they take a hill, they're speed at the finish, remains quite similar. So this overly long intro just to explain my way of rating the riders.
The newest generation is led by Wout Van Aert and Matthieu van der Poel, when it comes to potentials, I'd give both a 7. VDP is a bit better at taking the hills and has a better explosiveness, while Van Aert is a better pacer. VDP also has better technique. Van der Poel has show some great stuff in for example Ronde Van België, while I mostly remember Van Aert's solo crash in that race (well done, cyclocross pro!  )
Anyway, I meant to check some road results before finalising the stats, but most websites seem to be blocked at work, so yeah, sorry for the delay.
I nominate myself for most useless post 2016.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 15-01-2016 22:14
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Gogl has decent stats for a rider at CT level, so will be pretty weak at WT level. Hasn't done much at higher cat races to justify any increase but will keep an eye on him in 2016 for the next update.
Sergent has already been pegged back a few points in both TT and Pro, as he was too highly rated anyway.
Well done Olifardh, these type of contrasts and getting the right stats are not easy, so keep plugging away. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 18-01-2016 13:09
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Ok, so I finished my table. I decided not to include guys like Meeusen, Vantornout, Peeters, they're old and lack results on the road to make them relevant. I declined Nys and Vanthourenhout, as their top results were from a different era. I'll take request to add more riders of these stats are to people's liking (see above how I came to the results).
| FL | MO | HIL | TT | PRL | COB | SP | ACC | DH | FGH | END | RES | REC | | M. Van der Poel | 71 | 64 | 73 | 68 | 71 | 66 | 71 | 74 | 81 | 75 | 68 | 68 | 65 | | W. Van Aert | 72 | 65 | 71 | 67 | 69 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 78 | 75 | 69 | 67 | 65 | | L. Van der Haar | 70 | 64 | 69 | 66 | 68 | 65 | 71 | 72 | 78 | 73 | 67 | 66 | 61 | | S. Nys | 70 | 63 | 69 | 65 | 65 | 70 | 68 | 68 | 79 | 72 | 69 | 66 | 66 | | C. Venturini | 71 | 64 | 68 | 67 | 68 | 65 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 69 | 68 | 67 | 67 | | K. Pauwels | 70 | 66 | 72 | 65 | 65 | 66 | 71 | 73 | 76 | 68 | 68 | 67 | 64 | | G. Vermeersch | 69 | 61 | 67 | 63 | 63 | 67 | 67 | 69 | 74 | 67 | 67 | 66 | 63 | | T. Merlier | 68 | 59 | 65 | 61 | 62 | 67 | 72 | 72 | 74 | 64 | 67 | 66 | 62 | | L. Sweeck | 69 | 60 | 66 | 60 | 61 | 66 | 66 | 69 | 74 | 74 | 66 | 65 | 62 | | T. Aerts | 66 | 62 | 69 | 60 | 61 | 65 | 64 | 68 | 74 | 66 | 65 | 64 | 60 | | S. Vanthourenhout | 64 | 56 | 59 | 59 | 60 | 65 | 69 | 68 | 73 | 61 | 64 | 63 | 59 |
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| togo95 |
Posted on 18-01-2016 20:30
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Domestique
Posts: 442
Joined: 06-01-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Why do you keep everyone's mountain stats so low? I though crossers are ok-ish climbers usually, as most of them are fairly thin. Of course there are very little results, but for example VdP's and VdH's results on Markstein in Tour Alsace suggest they could be higher than 64 (link1, link2)
I also think their RES and PRL stats could be higher overall and END, TT maybe lower. CX is similiar in time it takes (and distribution of effort) to a longer TT so I would guess, they need a pretty good resistance, but again it's hard to compare. |
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| kodman |
Posted on 18-01-2016 20:39
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Under 23
Posts: 69
Joined: 07-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
Ok, so I finished my table. I decided not to include guys like Meeusen, Vantornout, Peeters, they're old and lack results on the road to make them relevant. I declined Nys and Vanthourenhout, as their top results were from a different era. I'll take request to add more riders of these stats are to people's liking (see above how I came to the results).
| FL | MO | HIL | TT | PRL | COB | SP | ACC | DH | FGH | END | RES | REC | | M. Van der Poel | 71 | 64 | 73 | 68 | 71 | 66 | 71 | 74 | 81 | 75 | 68 | 68 | 65 | | W. Van Aert | 72 | 65 | 71 | 67 | 69 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 78 | 75 | 69 | 67 | 65 | | L. Van der Haar | 70 | 64 | 69 | 66 | 68 | 65 | 71 | 72 | 78 | 73 | 67 | 66 | 61 | | S. Nys | 70 | 63 | 69 | 65 | 65 | 70 | 68 | 68 | 79 | 72 | 69 | 66 | 66 | | C. Venturini | 71 | 64 | 68 | 67 | 68 | 65 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 69 | 68 | 67 | 67 | | K. Pauwels | 70 | 66 | 72 | 65 | 65 | 66 | 71 | 73 | 76 | 68 | 68 | 67 | 64 | | G. Vermeersch | 69 | 61 | 67 | 63 | 63 | 67 | 67 | 69 | 74 | 67 | 67 | 66 | 63 | | T. Merlier | 68 | 59 | 65 | 61 | 62 | 67 | 72 | 72 | 74 | 64 | 67 | 66 | 62 | | L. Sweeck | 69 | 60 | 66 | 60 | 61 | 66 | 66 | 69 | 74 | 74 | 66 | 65 | 62 | | T. Aerts | 66 | 62 | 69 | 60 | 61 | 65 | 64 | 68 | 74 | 66 | 65 | 64 | 60 | | S. Vanthourenhout | 64 | 56 | 59 | 59 | 60 | 65 | 69 | 68 | 73 | 61 | 64 | 63 | 59 |
Really liking these stats Ollfardh, I'm kinda wondering how Pauwels' hill stat is 72, but he is one of the top CX'ers in the world. If you can get a chance, could you do Jim Aernouts's stats? I know he hasn't been amazing lately, but he's in the DB in the elite-2's, and I remember his stats were pretty low when I checked him out. Thanks in advance.
Edit: Just took another once over some CX results, could you look at Jens and Joeri Adams as well? I'm looking at Joeri right now, and he seems to be hard to judge. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 18-01-2016 20:47
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Well, that's on of the points I was in doubt on. Cyclocros can be similar to climbing, high watt needed for a midlong period, but most guys lack mountain results to back that up. I see both vdP and vdH more as puncheurs then climbers. I remember Niels Albert won an impressive mountain stage at some point, but I don't remember any mountain wins of these guys. Guess I could up it a bit.
I kept RES low as pcmdaily DBs tend to keep it low as well and I don't want to make them too strong. Could bump that up by one though. PRL and TT are hard, they can ride solo for a while, but again I don't want to overpower them.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 18-01-2016 20:50
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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And Kodman - Pauwels is one of the crossers that does good at the hilly track, he won Francorchamps and Namur a few times. He also has results on the road to back that up, including a second place in the queen stage of the Tour of Belgium, behind Betancur but ahead of Gilbert and Martin.
Will see if I can find time for those guys
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| matt17br |
Posted on 18-01-2016 20:51
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I kept RES low as pcmdaily DBs tend to keep it low as well and I don't want to make them too strong. Could bump that up by one though. PRL and TT are hard, they can ride solo for a while, but again I don't want to overpower them.
Yeah well, although the RES matrix is lower than the other stats - and that's the same in Cyanide's db too because RES has too big of an effect compared to other backups - those RES stats are definitely too low as well! Someone like VdP or Van Aert especially that can pull hard for long periods deserve something along the lines of 73.
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| kodman |
Posted on 18-01-2016 20:53
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Under 23
Posts: 69
Joined: 07-10-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
Well, that's on of the points I was in doubt on. Cyclocros can be similar to climbing, high watt needed for a midlong period, but most guys lack mountain results to back that up. I see both vdP and vdH more as puncheurs then climbers. I remember Niels Albert won an impressive mountain stage at some point, but I don't remember any mountain wins of these guys. Guess I could up it a bit.
I kept RES low as pcmdaily DBs tend to keep it low as well and I don't want to make them too strong. Could bump that up by one though. PRL and TT are hard, they can ride solo for a while, but again I don't want to overpower them.
I was looking at the MO stats as well, and I can see hard it'd be to judge them because you really don't know what kind of form their competition will be in when they do race RR's like Alsace, are they (the CX's) really as good as their results show, or is their competition in shite form.
Edit: Thanks Ollfardh, I guess I missed that result when I looked. I'd try to guess stats for them, but I just don't know CX amazingly well. You'd do a much better job than me.
Edited by kodman on 18-01-2016 20:57
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 18-01-2016 20:54
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Well, those two are the biggest talents I've ever seen (better than Boom or Stybar), so I guess they can be higher yes
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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