Yes! A Trump video always lightens up the mood a bit
In case you didn't know, the same Mr. Trump didn't know the difference between Hamas and Hezbollah just a couple months ago.
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
A second passport belonging to a Syrian, who was born in 1990, was also discovered. He was not known to French intelligence authorities. The holder of the Syrian passport found at the scene crossed into the European Union through the Greek island of Leros in October, a Greek government minister has said. This has not been confirmed by French authorities.
Greece’s deputy minister in charge of police, Nikos Toscas, said he was ‘identified [as a refugee] according to EU rules’ as he passed through the country, but did not know if it was checked elsewhere en route to Paris.
One of the terrorists is believed to have left Syria, travelled through Turkey and registered as a refugee on the Greek island of Leros on October 3 before continuing his journey northwards eventually arriving in Paris
A second passport belonging to a Syrian, who was born in 1990, was also discovered. He was not known to French intelligence authorities. The holder of the Syrian passport found at the scene crossed into the European Union through the Greek island of Leros in October, a Greek government minister has said. This has not been confirmed by French authorities.
Greece’s deputy minister in charge of police, Nikos Toscas, said he was ‘identified [as a refugee] according to EU rules’ as he passed through the country, but did not know if it was checked elsewhere en route to Paris.
One of the terrorists is believed to have left Syria, travelled through Turkey and registered as a refugee on the Greek island of Leros on October 3 before continuing his journey northwards eventually arriving in Paris
Everyone is welcome however! More please.
I'd wait and see who they actually were before believing the reports right now, I've been reading that the Syrian passport that was found doesn't look to be real. Also one of the attackers looks to be a French national and another a Belgium national so what's your solution there Alak? Stopping French and Belgian nationals from moving around?
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/
A second passport belonging to a Syrian, who was born in 1990, was also discovered. He was not known to French intelligence authorities. The holder of the Syrian passport found at the scene crossed into the European Union through the Greek island of Leros in October, a Greek government minister has said. This has not been confirmed by French authorities.
Greece’s deputy minister in charge of police, Nikos Toscas, said he was ‘identified [as a refugee] according to EU rules’ as he passed through the country, but did not know if it was checked elsewhere en route to Paris.
One of the terrorists is believed to have left Syria, travelled through Turkey and registered as a refugee on the Greek island of Leros on October 3 before continuing his journey northwards eventually arriving in Paris
Everyone is welcome however! More please.
I'd wait and see who they actually were before believing the reports right now, I've been reading that the Syrian passport that was found doesn't look to be real. Also one of the attackers looks to be a French national and another a Belgium national so what's your solution there Alak? Stopping French and Belgian nationals from moving around?
As I said before, I strongly believe that most radicalized Muslims are already in Europe way before migrant crisis happened ( and not using migrant pathway), there's not much you can do about that, however at least the government has some whereabouts of many and is tracking them, and even though it can't track all at least its chances are higher than of random people entering.
And just to illiterate as I could be mistaken none of this should be blamed on migrants, most are fleeing terror, I agree, but borders are here not to let everyone in, there is purpose and we can't just let everyone in, its near on suicidal.
I might come across as antagonistic but did just have a "conversation" about this with someone at the local shops who was talking about how this will happen in Australia now because we are taking 12,000 Syrians in (yes we are only taking 12,000 ). It's put me in a mood
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/
At the end they can't come to Australia on a boat and waltz in..controlled migration is the only way to deal with this, the Syrians you take in surely will want to adapt the Australian culture and the way of life and long term will add to the overall society.
What annoys me greatly is many of the refugees hate West, hate the culture yet will still seek to go to Germany/UK/Norway. They will never adapt to that culture and live in ghettos. This is increasing in UK and leads to radicalization as can be seen by numbers leaving from UK to go Syria and joining ISIS. As long as any Muslim is willing to adapt to this new culture and way of life, they are more than welcome, but this can't be done via no controls and letting everyone in.
I think this mass movement of refugees and how poorly it's been handled is cause for the world to hang it's head in shame. How is the world not geared to deal with this type of crisis yet? We have seen mass movements of refugees before and we've seen what's caused it in the past yet here we are with it happening again and we are acting surprised it's happening and helpless to do anything about it. it was obvious that Syria would fall apart, it was obvious that a mass of people would want to leave yet we did nothing. If there was ever proof that we have pulled the teeth of the U.N and made it into a completely useless organisation this is it.
Alak I don't agree that many of the refugees hate the West, it's not hate it's ignorance of it, most of the experience they have had of it would be from the countries media, religious leaders and dictatorial governments with it being negative and fear based. They have been conditioned to believe that the West is evil and that takes a generation to change that thinking, Education is the key to change this perception.
I do agree with you that in this crisis Europe has born the brunt of this refugee crisis and that most certainly isn't fair but the majority of the people crossing the borders have nowhere else to go.
Edited by Strydz on 15-11-2015 03:36
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/
Strydz wrote:
I might come across as antagonistic but did just have a "conversation" about this with someone at the local shops who was talking about how this will happen in Australia now because we are taking 12,000 Syrians in (yes we are only taking 12,000 ). It's put me in a mood
It is moments like this (and actually pretty much every day) when I'm glad that Abbott got the boot. I may not like Turnbull but at least I like to think that he will take a rational approach to this.
Alakagom wrote:
What annoys me greatly is many of the refugees hate West, hate the culture yet will still seek to go to Germany/UK/Norway. They will never adapt to that culture and live in ghettos. This is increasing in UK and leads to radicalization as can be seen by numbers leaving from UK to go Syria and joining ISIS. As long as any Muslim is willing to adapt to this new culture and way of life, they are more than welcome, but this can't be done via no controls and letting everyone in.
People radicalise because they do not feel like they are part of society (this is a well worn psychological principle). Imagine that you are in their shoes. Your country is wracked by civil war, several members of your circle of friends and family have been killed by the West, ISIS, or one of the myriad other groups in that power vacuum. You've almost certainly got PTSD and other mental health issues without any treatment because of this. You know that if you stay for too long there is a good chance you will die (plus your family, etc). So you know that you have to leave. The surrounding countries may not accept you because of your religious affiliation and, let's be honest, most of them aren't the most stable places. So you decide that you are going to follow the hordes of people going into Europe - there are lots of people in the same situation as you, the countries are wealthier than yours, and the governments have indicated that they are willing to help people in your situation. You don't think about what the culture will be like, you don't worry about any of that. You take your scant possessions and move on.
You get there. You don't speak any of the language (where would you have learned German in the first place?) and there are only scant resources to teach you. Maybe you pick up a few words here and there, but certainly not enough to get a job or feel like a real member of society. These people have all sorts of weird customs that you don't understand, you don't want to make any missteps because, as said, you can't explain yourself if things go wrong and you know that there are some people who really don't like muslims or people who look like you. Not just that but a couple of times a week word starts to filter around your circle of associates (after all, your friends probably stayed behind or you got separated on the way) that people just like you have been assaulted on the streets, whether in Germany, France, or somewhere else in Europe. You get the feeling that the rest of the world is hostile to you. You are scared and, of course, still dealing with the mental health issues from your homeland. So you slip into the ghettos with the people who speak your language, who look like you, and act in the same way as you - what else can you do? Of course, you also can't afford anything better than that, even if you wanted to because, as said, you can't get a job. How could you integrate in that situation? You can't speak the language, you are dealing with mental health problems, you certainly can't go back home, and it is natural that you will just end up living in the same areas as people like yourself.
Maybe, just maybe, the problem is that we aren't giving them the proper tools to integrate. Maybe treating them as if they are really not welcome is the actual problem. People won't do shit like this if they feel that they are integrated. Integration is not a one-way street - both sides must be accepting of the other, and neither should seek to destroy completely the traditions of the other.
So don't give me any of this "they should integrate" BS, because quite frankly, that is wishful thinking unless you are willing to fund it. They also can't be sent home because they will die.
EDIT: Also I would like to point out that what you are saying is exactly what was said by the Australian government to effectively ban immigration from Asia up until the 70s. They have since integrated just fine (once we stopped demonising them), and it would he hard for me to imagine an Australian culture that did not include aspects of Asia in it. Concerted efforts are made to make them feel like they are part of Australia but if they want to live more like what they did in Asia then they are able to do that. There are numerous parts of Sydney where more people speak Mandarin or Vietnamese than English on the streets. The same goes for Muslim populations. That just makes this city all the more vibrant and varied.
Edited by CountArach on 15-11-2015 02:57
Strydz wrote:
I might come across as antagonistic but did just have a "conversation" about this with someone at the local shops who was talking about how this will happen in Australia now because we are taking 12,000 Syrians in (yes we are only taking 12,000 ). It's put me in a mood
It is moments like this (and actually pretty much every day) when I'm glad that Abbott got the boot. I may not like Turnbull but at least I like to think that he will take a rational approach to this.
EDIT: Also I would like to point out that what you are saying is exactly what was said by the Australian government to effectively ban immigration from Asia up until the 70s. They have since integrated just fine (once we stopped demonising them), and it would he hard for me to imagine an Australian culture that did not include aspects of Asia in it. Concerted efforts are made to make them feel like they are part of Australia but if they want to live more like what they did in Asia then they are able to do that. There are numerous parts of Sydney where more people speak Mandarin or Vietnamese than English on the streets. The same goes for Muslim populations. That just makes this city all the more vibrant and varied.
Listening to Turnball's response to the Sydney shooting just after he came into office showed what a rational, well thought out response can do. It takes the heat out of a situation and allows the community to absorb what has happened without knee jerk fear/hate based reactions, so far his response to what has happened in Paris is along the same lines and shows how to use language in times of crisis. I don't like everything he stands for but at least we know he is thinking before he speaks unlike Abbott who in times of crisis (anytime actually) always acted in a way that would devide the community and played to the dark side of the country, now if only he would just go away and stop giving idiotic speeches overseas and stupid radio interviews here.
The Vietnamese community is a great example of how people fleeing crisis take time to settle in, it took a generation but instead of assimilating into Australian culture (whatever that is) they added to it, same goes for the Greek and Italians before them, the Africans who fleeded unspeakable horrors are now starting to thrive and the many people of Islamic faith who have come here and built up successful communities.
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/
Alakagom wrote:
At the end they can't come to Australia on a boat and waltz in..controlled migration is the only way to deal with this, the Syrians you take in surely will want to adapt the Australian culture and the way of life and long term will add to the overall society.
What annoys me greatly is many of the refugees hate West, hate the culture yet will still seek to go to Germany/UK/Norway. They will never adapt to that culture and live in ghettos. This is increasing in UK and leads to radicalization as can be seen by numbers leaving from UK to go Syria and joining ISIS. As long as any Muslim is willing to adapt to this new culture and way of life, they are more than welcome, but this can't be done via no controls and letting everyone in.
There are some people leaving the UK and joining ISIS but I would be interested to see the numbers. I don't know who "they" are but I have a fair number of refugee friends and quite a lot of second-generation immigrant friends who seem to have integrated perfectly well. It'll take time sure, but I think that refugees will do as well as any other immigrants (be they Asian, Western or Eastern European), given a bit of time. And it's not like we are taking in a lot (certainly not in comparison with the aforementioned).
Alakagom wrote:
At the end they can't come to Australia on a boat and waltz in..controlled migration is the only way to deal with this, the Syrians you take in surely will want to adapt the Australian culture and the way of life and long term will add to the overall society.
What annoys me greatly is many of the refugees hate West, hate the culture yet will still seek to go to Germany/UK/Norway. They will never adapt to that culture and live in ghettos. This is increasing in UK and leads to radicalization as can be seen by numbers leaving from UK to go Syria and joining ISIS. As long as any Muslim is willing to adapt to this new culture and way of life, they are more than welcome, but this can't be done via no controls and letting everyone in.
There are some people leaving the UK and joining ISIS but I would be interested to see the numbers. I don't know who "they" are but I have a fair number of refugee friends and quite a lot of second-generation immigrant friends who seem to have integrated perfectly well. It'll take time sure, but I think that refugees will do as well as any other immigrants (be they Asian, Western or Eastern European), given a bit of time. And it's not like we are taking in a lot (certainly not in comparison with the aforementioned).
More have left to join ISIS than the UK have taken in as refugees.
This is purely because of the pisspoor number of refugees the UK has taken in though, so doesn't actually say anything.
Alakagom wrote:
At the end they can't come to Australia on a boat and waltz in..controlled migration is the only way to deal with this, the Syrians you take in surely will want to adapt the Australian culture and the way of life and long term will add to the overall society.
What annoys me greatly is many of the refugees hate West, hate the culture yet will still seek to go to Germany/UK/Norway. They will never adapt to that culture and live in ghettos. This is increasing in UK and leads to radicalization as can be seen by numbers leaving from UK to go Syria and joining ISIS. As long as any Muslim is willing to adapt to this new culture and way of life, they are more than welcome, but this can't be done via no controls and letting everyone in.
There are some people leaving the UK and joining ISIS but I would be interested to see the numbers. I don't know who "they" are but I have a fair number of refugee friends and quite a lot of second-generation immigrant friends who seem to have integrated perfectly well. It'll take time sure, but I think that refugees will do as well as any other immigrants (be they Asian, Western or Eastern European), given a bit of time. And it's not like we are taking in a lot (certainly not in comparison with the aforementioned).
More have left to join ISIS than the UK have taken in as refugees.
This is purely because of the pisspoor number of refugees the UK has taken in though, so doesn't actually say anything.
If memory serves me correctly, it's about 500-600
Thanks for that, higher than I would've expected but still not even a ripple.
A second passport belonging to a Syrian, who was born in 1990, was also discovered. He was not known to French intelligence authorities. The holder of the Syrian passport found at the scene crossed into the European Union through the Greek island of Leros in October, a Greek government minister has said. This has not been confirmed by French authorities.
Greece’s deputy minister in charge of police, Nikos Toscas, said he was ‘identified [as a refugee] according to EU rules’ as he passed through the country, but did not know if it was checked elsewhere en route to Paris.
One of the terrorists is believed to have left Syria, travelled through Turkey and registered as a refugee on the Greek island of Leros on October 3 before continuing his journey northwards eventually arriving in Paris
Everyone is welcome however! More please.
Both passports turned out to be fakes according to the latest reports.
So never jump fast on conlusions before knowing all the facts...
I would say that majority of people fleeing to Europe is afraid of ISIS and other terrorists as much as we are, they were forced out of their homes by these sheep fuckers. (i dont wanna start about USA causing the whole situation, that is another question and now we should focus on dealing with consequences).
Also many of them responded that they want to return home when it is again somewhat safe, i dont think their plan is to live on the other half of the world not working and benefiting from social system, as it is often portraited by right wing scumbags. As far as i am concerned, i would change all the muslim families fleeing from war for these nationalistic pigs, lets send them to Syria, so they can act like heroes there.
Of course this cant be applied to all people coming into Europe, i am in for the establishment of system to find out, who is war refugee and who is an economy migrant, those should be probably send back, so the aid is focused on those who are in the biggest need. We cant save the whole world in the end...but politicians should stop talking and start acting. I think those hundreds of summits and press conferences are costing so much money, that could be actually used to help.
About Paris, yeah, it is terrible act, but we act like death of 100+ people is biggest thing since Biblical floods, while thousands are dying for our needs day by day.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 16-11-2015 07:44
The manhunt going after one of a few brothers is a French national so that takes away the refugee argument in terms of at least one case there. They all made their was into Belgium where he is now roaming and the others were arrested in Brussels. Meanwhile the French and others have stepped up efforts to attack ISIS while the threats on the world continue.
Vervies, Molenbeek are all socialists strongholds that for years have been governed (in an incompetent manner) by PS. No surprise that every terrorist attack in Europe traces back there. Local governement in those places is to blame.
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
A poll conducted a couple weeks ago. I got reminded of it recently
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
). It's put me in a mood
