Good backups for Verona like 71End 72Res 72Rec, in the rec you need to have in mind that after the Vuelta he do very good results so we need to know he recoverys his good.
to the Dumoulin-discussion...he will fell 1-2 points stronger than his Mountain stat is, and he was good but not too impressive on the Mountain stages...he has to climb worse than Majka, Aru, JRod...I think he is good on a level with riders like Nieve
Croatia14 wrote:
I finally managed to put all the changes into my database, and as requested as PM I will upload the .cdb file here. If that´s against the DB-teams mind please tell mme...
Debusschere (73 hill)
Dumoulin (76/77 mountain, 78 hill, 73/74 recovery)
Kusnetzov 72 END 71 HI
Viviani 67TT
Navardauskas END77
Kiriyenka & Coppel & Malori TT (79, 76, 79)
Chaves (77MO, 78 HI, 74 REC)
Mads Würtz Schmidt (73TT)
Poljanski & Hansen MO (75,74)
Sbaragli (76SPR, 77ACC)
Firsanov (68 sprint)
Fraile & Goncalves (FTR upgrade for both, Goncalves general upgrade 72 Mo/74 Hill, Fraile 72MO)
Rojas & Ventoso (mountain upgrade, Rojas FTR)
Majka 80 MO
Dani Moreno (MO upgrade)
Lindeman (69 MO)
Koshevoy (72MO)
Gougeard (one-day race/TT upgrade)
Oliveira (general upgrade despite TT, especially MO, Hill, FTR, RES)
Aru 72 TT
Pinot (upgrade to 78 hill, 62 DH is too low)
Vakoc (non-cobbled classics upgrade)
Konrad (68 Spr, 71 Acc)
Bialoblocki (TT upgrade 74)
Claeys (general update, especially SPR)
de la Parte (73 MO)
Boom (66MO)
Boasson Hagen (small tour upgrade)
Rosa (MO & Hill upgrade 76/76)
Guldhammer (SPR 72/73?)
Sepulveda (FL 71)
Verona (71 MO, 72 Hill)
Nieve (76 Hill)
Benedetti (69 DO, 68 END, 71 HI, 75 FTR)
Rosseler, Vaubourzeix -> FA
Cammaerts (slight downgrade)
Pardini (TT & PRO up 3, SPR & ACC & FTR down 3)
Van Zummeren, Stenuit (detailed upgrade)
Roglic (slight GC upgrade: 73MO, 71HI, 70FTR) Farrar (slight HI & FTR upgrade, SPR, ACC, COB downgrade by one)
Plaza[RES upgrade], Boonen, D.Moreno, Ewan[HI upgrade], Kump[HI upgrade] and Gaviria[FLT & FTR upgrade] had already fitting key stats - in [] are minor changes I made
a big thx to all the suggestions of you guys, hoping for further constructive discussions in this thread
Thanks Croatia for uploading the cdb file for us, I'm glad the banter in here actually amounted to something like this. I'll be more than happy to post a few more changes to some Continental riders when I get a block of time to do so. I've already got some info that I can post on Friday or Saturday on some Continental transfer news and maybe some new riders to add to the list of free riders? I'm not sure how that would work but it'd be nice to get some new riders to choose from.
to the Dumoulin-discussion...he will fell 1-2 points stronger than his Mountain stat is, and he was good but not too impressive on the Mountain stages...he has to climb worse than Majka, Aru, JRod...I think he is good on a level with riders like Nieve
You have to see he was the only to follow aru in the 2nd week and also won a mountain stage @ Cumbre del Sol but I see on the Andorra Stage he lost 49 secs on majka
yeah so 79 are ok but not lower than chaves but a bit lower than majka and purrito
to the Dumoulin-discussion...he will fell 1-2 points stronger than his Mountain stat is, and he was good but not too impressive on the Mountain stages...he has to climb worse than Majka, Aru, JRod...I think he is good on a level with riders like Nieve
You have to see he was the only to follow aru in the 2nd week and also won a mountain stage @ Cumbre del Sol but I see on the Andorra Stage he lost 49 secs on majka
yeah so 79 are ok but not lower than chaves but a bit lower than majka and purrito
Dumoulin finished 9th in Encamp, that´s the only top 10 on a mountain stage he had. And there were several climbers in front of him on every mountain stage...
to the Dumoulin-discussion...he will fell 1-2 points stronger than his Mountain stat is, and he was good but not too impressive on the Mountain stages...he has to climb worse than Majka, Aru, JRod...I think he is good on a level with riders like Nieve
You have to see he was the only to follow aru in the 2nd week and also won a mountain stage @ Cumbre del Sol but I see on the Andorra Stage he lost 49 secs on majka
yeah so 79 are ok but not lower than chaves but a bit lower than majka and purrito
Dumoulin finished 9th in Encamp, that´s the only top 10 on a mountain stage he had. And there were several climbers in front of him on every mountain stage...
It would be to easy just to say not in top10 can't be this good, you have to see if there was a break and there often was a break in front of the top climbers so even worldclass climbers as aru and purrito are haven't always finished in top 10, so you have to look at the gap he got to aru and purito and maybe majka who is worldclass as well and then look who was at toms side while finishing in the mountains so you see he finished in front of guys like valverde almost all the time and I remember one stage (don't know which) where tom was the only one able to follow aru at the attack but all others not, they closed the gap later but he made a gap to quintana and majka so he can't be that bad
to the Dumoulin-discussion...he will fell 1-2 points stronger than his Mountain stat is, and he was good but not too impressive on the Mountain stages...he has to climb worse than Majka, Aru, JRod...I think he is good on a level with riders like Nieve
You have to see he was the only to follow aru in the 2nd week and also won a mountain stage @ Cumbre del Sol but I see on the Andorra Stage he lost 49 secs on majka
yeah so 79 are ok but not lower than chaves but a bit lower than majka and purrito
Dumoulin finished 9th in Encamp, that´s the only top 10 on a mountain stage he had. And there were several climbers in front of him on every mountain stage...
It would be to easy just to say not in top10 can't be this good, you have to see if there was a break and there often was a break in front of the top climbers so even worldclass climbers as aru and purrito are haven't always finished in top 10, so you have to look at the gap he got to aru and purito and maybe majka who is worldclass as well and then look who was at toms side while finishing in the mountains so you see he finished in front of guys like valverde almost all the time and I remember one stage (don't know which) where tom was the only one able to follow aru at the attack but all others not, they closed the gap later but he made a gap to quintana and majka so he can't be that bad
First of all, I looked at every single stage of week 2 & 3 for this research. Valverde & Quintana both peaked at Le Tour, I would like to compare Dumoulin only to "not Tour-GC riders".
For outlining my point I took the results of all Vuelta stages categorized as mountain stages out.
I don´t see why Domoulin - based on the Vuelta - should be rated higher than any of these guys.
Not to forget Meintjes was riding Le Tour as well...
To the Marecko topic:
firstly: I like this guy, but he is very inconsistent (many DNFs), and seems to do well only in smaller races (south america, asia). So I see no point of upgrading him, he is more the CT-sprinter-type; like a light version of Kump...
But his potential could/should be high, as he came more or less out of nowhere (if I´m informed right)
Personally i'd give Dumoulin a 78MO stat. High enough to give him a shot at winning the Vuelta, and certainly enough to secure a good GC position, but not too high to make him a major threat in something like the TDF. It's a balancing act and everyone has their own preference and opinions on it, but primarily the range is 77-79MO which is not massive.
Just to remind everyone, this guy finished outside of the Top 5 at the Vuelta. Of course, there are many other factors going into this, but he finished 6th at the Vuelta in a way much like Voeckler finished 4th at the Tour.
And when Froome was second at the Vuelta in 2011 as probably the best climber, he was given 77 mtn going forward for the 2012 DB. Obviously he proved to be better the next year, but that sets a precedent in my opinion. I don't think jumping the gun just because he was a top rider in another discipline and already an established racer, he should be irrationally raised based primarily one race.
In my opinion, he is no more than a 77 mtn rider helped by his already great resistance. FOR NOW. He can prove me wrong immediately next year, and I'd be fine with that. But he needs to prove that to me before I'd raise him higher than that, and certainly not higher than 78.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
Croatia14 wrote:
I finally managed to put all the changes into my database, and as requested as PM I will upload the .cdb file here. If that´s against the DB-teams mind please tell mme...
Debusschere (73 hill)
Dumoulin (76/77 mountain, 78 hill, 73/74 recovery)
Kusnetzov 72 END 71 HI
Viviani 67TT
Navardauskas END77
Kiriyenka & Coppel & Malori TT (79, 76, 79)
Chaves (77MO, 78 HI, 74 REC)
Mads Würtz Schmidt (73TT)
Poljanski & Hansen MO (75,74)
Sbaragli (76SPR, 77ACC)
Firsanov (68 sprint)
Fraile & Goncalves (FTR upgrade for both, Goncalves general upgrade 72 Mo/74 Hill, Fraile 72MO)
Rojas & Ventoso (mountain upgrade, Rojas FTR)
Majka 80 MO
Dani Moreno (MO upgrade)
Lindeman (69 MO)
Koshevoy (72MO)
Gougeard (one-day race/TT upgrade)
Oliveira (general upgrade despite TT, especially MO, Hill, FTR, RES)
Aru 72 TT
Pinot (upgrade to 78 hill, 62 DH is too low)
Vakoc (non-cobbled classics upgrade)
Konrad (68 Spr, 71 Acc)
Bialoblocki (TT upgrade 74)
Claeys (general update, especially SPR)
de la Parte (73 MO)
Boom (66MO)
Boasson Hagen (small tour upgrade)
Rosa (MO & Hill upgrade 76/76)
Guldhammer (SPR 72/73?)
Sepulveda (FL 71)
Verona (71 MO, 72 Hill)
Nieve (76 Hill)
Benedetti (69 DO, 68 END, 71 HI, 75 FTR)
Rosseler, Vaubourzeix -> FA
Cammaerts (slight downgrade)
Pardini (TT & PRO up 3, SPR & ACC & FTR down 3)
Van Zummeren, Stenuit (detailed upgrade)
Roglic (slight GC upgrade: 73MO, 71HI, 70FTR) Farrar (slight HI & FTR upgrade, SPR, ACC, COB downgrade by one)
Plaza[RES upgrade], Boonen, D.Moreno, Ewan[HI upgrade], Kump[HI upgrade] and Gaviria[FLT & FTR upgrade] had already fitting key stats - in [] are minor changes I made
a big thx to all the suggestions of you guys, hoping for further constructive discussions in this thread
Good work Croatia and the only points worth mentioning are these;
Dumoulin should be a 78 mtn as he was more or less able to keep contact with the leaders until the final mountain stage.
I would put Lindeman at 72 mtn because at 69 mtn he´s not winning any mtn stage and also despite saying that Kiryenka was a 79TT previously, I´ve seen a problem with this. His prologue is poor compared to the other big TT riders which means in a long TT he will lose some time at the start of the TT, which will be hard for him to make up later. The solution is either tio up his TT to 80 or keep him at 79 and up his prologue.
Dumoulin is fine with 77MO 78Hills like Esteban Chaves but with better endurance in relation with the colombian, he doesnt climb better than Chaves and in my opinion i would put Chaves with 78 and Dumoulin 77.
Tafiolmo wrote:
I would put Lindeman at 72 mtn because at 69 mtn he´s not winning any mtn stage and also despite saying that Kiryenka was a 79TT previously, I´ve seen a problem with this. His prologue is poor compared to the other big TT riders which means in a long TT he will lose some time at the start of the TT, which will be hard for him to make up later. The solution is either tio up his TT to 80 or keep him at 79 and up his prologue.
I think it´s very hard to judge Lindeman...I can see your point, but he would be as good as the strongest CT-climbers...really don´t know how to judge him. He won the Vuelta stage because he had more left in the tank than the others, I doubt he was the strongest climber of the breakaway...71 could be right though
WIth Kiriyenka you have a point there also, maybe 80 would fit better looking at his results this year. But I don´t feel good making him better than Malori...
Tafiolmo wrote: Kiryenka was a 79TT previously, I´ve seen a problem with this. His prologue is poor compared to the other big TT riders which means in a long TT he will lose some time at the start of the TT, which will be hard for him to make up later. The solution is either tio up his TT to 80 or keep him at 79 and up his prologue.
Was the PRL counting during a long TT ever tested? I think it was i just cant remember where and i'd like to double check it in PCM15
Tafiolmo wrote: Kiryenka was a 79TT previously, I´ve seen a problem with this. His prologue is poor compared to the other big TT riders which means in a long TT he will lose some time at the start of the TT, which will be hard for him to make up later. The solution is either tio up his TT to 80 or keep him at 79 and up his prologue.
Was the PRL counting during a long TT ever tested? I think it was i just cant remember where and i'd like to double check it in PCM15
The PRL stat counts up until the 18 kms TTs, according to Freire.
Croatia14 wrote:
I finally managed to put all the changes into my database, and as requested as PM I will upload the .cdb file here. If that´s against the DB-teams mind please tell mme...
Debusschere (73 hill)
Dumoulin (76/77 mountain, 78 hill, 73/74 recovery)
Kusnetzov 72 END 71 HI
Viviani 67TT
Navardauskas END77
Kiriyenka & Coppel & Malori TT (79, 76, 79)
Chaves (77MO, 78 HI, 74 REC)
Mads Würtz Schmidt (73TT)
Poljanski & Hansen MO (75,74)
Sbaragli (76SPR, 77ACC)
Firsanov (68 sprint)
Fraile & Goncalves (FTR upgrade for both, Goncalves general upgrade 72 Mo/74 Hill, Fraile 72MO)
Rojas & Ventoso (mountain upgrade, Rojas FTR)
Majka 80 MO
Dani Moreno (MO upgrade)
Lindeman (69 MO)
Koshevoy (72MO)
Gougeard (one-day race/TT upgrade)
Oliveira (general upgrade despite TT, especially MO, Hill, FTR, RES)
Aru 72 TT
Pinot (upgrade to 78 hill, 62 DH is too low)
Vakoc (non-cobbled classics upgrade)
Konrad (68 Spr, 71 Acc)
Bialoblocki (TT upgrade 74)
Claeys (general update, especially SPR)
de la Parte (73 MO)
Boom (66MO)
Boasson Hagen (small tour upgrade)
Rosa (MO & Hill upgrade 76/76)
Guldhammer (SPR 72/73?)
Sepulveda (FL 71)
Verona (71 MO, 72 Hill)
Nieve (76 Hill)
Benedetti (69 DO, 68 END, 71 HI, 75 FTR)
Rosseler, Vaubourzeix -> FA
Cammaerts (slight downgrade)
Pardini (TT & PRO up 3, SPR & ACC & FTR down 3)
Van Zummeren, Stenuit (detailed upgrade)
Roglic (slight GC upgrade: 73MO, 71HI, 70FTR) Farrar (slight HI & FTR upgrade, SPR, ACC, COB downgrade by one)
Plaza[RES upgrade], Boonen, D.Moreno, Ewan[HI upgrade], Kump[HI upgrade] and Gaviria[FLT & FTR upgrade] had already fitting key stats - in [] are minor changes I made
a big thx to all the suggestions of you guys, hoping for further constructive discussions in this thread
I need to install the PCM.Daily's EP before using this updated DB? I think so
Tafiolmo wrote:
I would put Lindeman at 72 mtn because at 69 mtn he´s not winning any mtn stage and also despite saying that Kiryenka was a 79TT previously, I´ve seen a problem with this. His prologue is poor compared to the other big TT riders which means in a long TT he will lose some time at the start of the TT, which will be hard for him to make up later. The solution is either tio up his TT to 80 or keep him at 79 and up his prologue.
I think it´s very hard to judge Lindeman...I can see your point, but he would be as good as the strongest CT-climbers...really don´t know how to judge him. He won the Vuelta stage because he had more left in the tank than the others, I doubt he was the strongest climber of the breakaway...71 could be right though
WIth Kiriyenka you have a point there also, maybe 80 would fit better looking at his results this year. But I don´t feel good making him better than Malori...
I think half the fórum want Dumoulin at 77 and the other half at 78 mtn. At 78 mtn with his good hill and TT skills he´s an outside GC contender, but at 77 mtn he´s no better than a rider looking for a top 10 position.
Lindeman is hard but at 71 or 72 if he´s in a mtn breakaway he´s still likely to be in the company of better climbers, at least with 71 or 72 mtn with good daily form he could win the stage, any less than this I don´t think so.
Tafiolmo wrote:
I would put Lindeman at 72 mtn because at 69 mtn he´s not winning any mtn stage and also despite saying that Kiryenka was a 79TT previously, I´ve seen a problem with this. His prologue is poor compared to the other big TT riders which means in a long TT he will lose some time at the start of the TT, which will be hard for him to make up later. The solution is either tio up his TT to 80 or keep him at 79 and up his prologue.
I think it´s very hard to judge Lindeman...I can see your point, but he would be as good as the strongest CT-climbers...really don´t know how to judge him. He won the Vuelta stage because he had more left in the tank than the others, I doubt he was the strongest climber of the breakaway...71 could be right though
WIth Kiriyenka you have a point there also, maybe 80 would fit better looking at his results this year. But I don´t feel good making him better than Malori...
I think half the fórum want Dumoulin at 77 and the other half at 78 mtn. At 78 mtn with his good hill and TT skills he´s an outside GC contender, but at 77 mtn he´s no better than a rider looking for a top 10 position.
Lindeman is hard but at 71 or 72 if he´s in a mtn breakaway he´s still likely to be in the company of better climbers, at at least with 71 or 72 mtn with good daily form he could win the stage, any less tan this I don´t think so.
Croatia14 wrote:
I finally managed to put all the changes into my database, and as requested as PM I will upload the .cdb file here. If that´s against the DB-teams mind please tell mme...
Debusschere (73 hill)
Dumoulin (76/77 mountain, 78 hill, 73/74 recovery)
Kusnetzov 72 END 71 HI
Viviani 67TT
Navardauskas END77
Kiriyenka & Coppel & Malori TT (79, 76, 79)
Chaves (77MO, 78 HI, 74 REC)
Mads Würtz Schmidt (73TT)
Poljanski & Hansen MO (75,74)
Sbaragli (76SPR, 77ACC)
Firsanov (68 sprint)
Fraile & Goncalves (FTR upgrade for both, Goncalves general upgrade 72 Mo/74 Hill, Fraile 72MO)
Rojas & Ventoso (mountain upgrade, Rojas FTR)
Majka 80 MO
Dani Moreno (MO upgrade)
Lindeman (69 MO)
Koshevoy (72MO)
Gougeard (one-day race/TT upgrade)
Oliveira (general upgrade despite TT, especially MO, Hill, FTR, RES)
Aru 72 TT
Pinot (upgrade to 78 hill, 62 DH is too low)
Vakoc (non-cobbled classics upgrade)
Konrad (68 Spr, 71 Acc)
Bialoblocki (TT upgrade 74)
Claeys (general update, especially SPR)
de la Parte (73 MO)
Boom (66MO)
Boasson Hagen (small tour upgrade)
Rosa (MO & Hill upgrade 76/76)
Guldhammer (SPR 72/73?)
Sepulveda (FL 71)
Verona (71 MO, 72 Hill)
Nieve (76 Hill)
Benedetti (69 DO, 68 END, 71 HI, 75 FTR)
Rosseler, Vaubourzeix -> FA
Cammaerts (slight downgrade)
Pardini (TT & PRO up 3, SPR & ACC & FTR down 3)
Van Zummeren, Stenuit (detailed upgrade)
Roglic (slight GC upgrade: 73MO, 71HI, 70FTR) Farrar (slight HI & FTR upgrade, SPR, ACC, COB downgrade by one)
Plaza[RES upgrade], Boonen, D.Moreno, Ewan[HI upgrade], Kump[HI upgrade] and Gaviria[FLT & FTR upgrade] had already fitting key stats - in [] are minor changes I made
a big thx to all the suggestions of you guys, hoping for further constructive discussions in this thread
I need to install the PCM.Daily's EP before using this updated DB? I think so
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
